Beyonder (Pre-Retcon Feats, Secret Wars and 1984 and pre-1984 Scaling only)

Ivory Kings, First Firmament + Ultimate Ultimates

FIRST COSMOS

BEYONDERS

ULTIMATE ULTIMATES

Space David Hasselhoff (Beyonder) takes on Marvel's New Multiversal Power Houses that were not around during the Pre-Retcon Secret Wars I and II.

So on one side, we have Beyonder. The other side, we have First Firmament and 6 or 8 other walking Omniverses and the Beyonders.

Take note that each member of the Ultimate Ultimates are each OMNIVERSAL EMBODIMENTS, so basically Marvel has like, EIGHT OMNIVERSES if that even makes sense.

• Win by any means


• Don't use "BEYONDER IS OUTERVERSAL OR 1A!!" or whatever VSBattles arguments that make zero sense.


• Location: Neutral Omniverse

READ FIRST BEFORE YOU POST

Now before you just reply LOL BEYONDER STOMPS, take note that Marvel's Multiverse got more complex since Beyonder was retconned, later portrayals of Eternity, Living Tribunal got better feats since their SW selves and before that and Beyonder cannot scale to those newer feats from which he was already retconned at the time. So this is a debatable match up.

I want to see if Pre-Retcon Beyonder's category can actually last that long.

2.664*10^25

That’s how many drops of water there are in the ocean and marvel was only 1 drop compared to the beyonders power. They may have gotten stronger and better feats post ret con but I doubt they got that powerful

Hmmm..

Maybe T1. Ultimate Ultimates being the weak link for T2. IMO

Edit

Maybe even STALEMATE depending if this is Pre-Celestial War FF.

Again...IMO

Lol ☝️

If this were pre-Celestial War FF, then the Ultimate Ultimates wouldn't exist.

That being said...T1 should win.

Hey! You use the Ocean to Droplet calc on Beyonder too! I use it too! It varies depending on the size of the droplet you're talking about in which if we use further interpretation, the ratio between Beyonder to the Marvel Omniverse gets even wider and Beyonder gets bigger. Assuming we use the new data that we have discovered of even tinier water droplets in science. Lol

Okay okay, how about we assume Composite FF against Beyonder? Would that be fair or no?

@sungsam: Very true

No one on the list is omnipotent since TOAA is.

However I would say pr beyonder has more finite power than the others

I think this would be a great battle based on what we may understand about them.

Tho it would be a bit uneasy to debate FF due to limited appearances, I still think a case can be made for it.

STALEMATE or perhaps FF....

IMO of course.

Not sure, there's a lot of things with unclarity in regards to Beyonder you see. For example, MM and Beyonder's fight looks like they wree equals, but it turns out Beyonder was likely holding back since MM himself said that he was a human to Beyonder like Cap was a human to MM.

Since MM is an Infinite Layered Multiversal power, he is several magnitudes of infinity, infinitely more powerful than Cap, and the same would apply to Beyonder. I don't think Beyonder is only finite times more powerful than the Marvel Multiverse then if we use this interpretation.

But the SW narrative contradicts itself with how many times Beyonder is more powerful than Marvel's Multiverse more than a few times.

I'll also mention that the Beyondrealm is NOT finite. Or that Beyonder was just a finite number greater, it is contradicted based on some interpretation, analysis and other pointers

This scan repeatedly calls the Beyond Realm as ENDLESSNESS, INFINITY, INFINITE BEYOND, and beyond all Existence.

So when we hear that Beyonder was an Ocean, he was really an Infinite Ocean, to a Droplet of Water. This kind of contradicts the notion that Beyonder was only a finite times greater than a Multiverse whether it was a thousands, Millions or Septillion Sextillion, but Infinite. Those seem to be more expressive than not to be taken literally.

Sometimes Ocean to Droplet is in fiction and poetry, synonymous with a dot to an infinite ratio, yes I might be wanking already here, but it is true. Ocean can be seen as an analogue to an infinity, to a droplet, not necessarily to be taken literally as just a great finite number.

Here, states that Marvel's Multiverse was already infinite dimensionally layered.

So Beyonder was an Endless, Infinite Void, that was an Infinite Ocean to Droplet for the already Infinite Layered Marvel Omniverse. The Beyond Realm is stated as Infinite Ocean in size, which is far greater than just Millions of Times.

I think we can just disregard the million times, it is theoretically safe to assume that Beyonder was not just million times more powerful than Marvel's Multiverse, but infinite times. Since he's an Infinite Ocean to the Marvel Multiverse as likely an infinitesimal droplet.

Also, what most also forget about the scan below is that Beyonder explicitly states that the Marvel Omniverse's reality was indistinguishable to his imagination (fiction).

So coupled with the previous interpretation (and layer below) Basically ALL OF EXISTENCE (Omniverse) was a non existing fictional infinitesimal microbe/droplet to Beyonder that was part of his imagination, it was a part of his mind's thoughts, erasing Marvel's Omniverse was like erasing his own mind, it was like his imagination, erasing his own imagination, his thoughts. Reality wasn't really a tangible objectivity to him at a conceptual level.

So basically, Marvel's Omniverse was an irrelevant existence of imagination to Beyonder.

Another point. The difference between Beyonder and MM (who was greater than all of Marvel's Abstracts at the time) was the same difference between MM and a 3D Mortal Human (cap).

Because as above. know that Molecule Man was an Infinite Layered Multiversal, so MM was infinite chain levels of infinity power leveled. So by this admission, he described Beyonder as transcending MM like MM transcended a mere human by multiplied times of unimaginable infinite layers of infinite multiversal power level. So there you go, that's the same ratio Beyonder was more powerful than MM to Cap.

So I think there's three more pointers to prove that Beyonder was infinitely greater than a droplet/microbe (Marvel Infinite Dimensional Omniverse) that was fictional part of his imagination/thoughts, not finite, as its backed up by MM who is credible in the fight as he was fighting it, and Beyonder's description of reality being an imagination to him.

I think even Beyonder fans underestimate how powerful Beyonder really was or probably was, as Beyonder was always aloof and holding back half the time or so. I'm just unsure if Beyonder can still keep up with the evolving post-retcon cosmological powers of Marvel nowadays.

Of course, this is all interpretation, but we cannot outright reject this either.

I typically reject the idea that Beyonder was overwhelmed by Phoenix Force since reality didn't exist and was just his imagination, seems to be an incredible outlier since Beyonder was just there to make the protagonists look good. Perhaps Beyonder was already retconned just after Secret Wars already.