Does Adult Naruto Really Still Have Six Paths Sage Mode?
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Does Adult Naruto Really Still Have Six Paths Sage Mode?
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Posted by
Revold
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This used to be a debatable question, but at this age a simple Google search for this question will tell you that THIS is Six Paths Sage Mode, "+" sign without pigmentation, and Adult Naruto managed to reproduce this in Boruto.
But I'm going to present you some alternative theory that might change things altogether.
What is Six Paths Sage Mode??
To answer the question, we first have to determine what is SPSM. To do that, I'll have to go through the characteristics of the previous forms so that we wouldn't get confused, all of which could be classified into two main types: 1. Chakra Mode (and corresponding Tailed Beast avatar); and 2. Sage Mode.
1. Chakra Mode
Chakra Mode, as evident from what we've seen to now, is any mode that covers the body or part of the body (such as arm) with some form of chakra. Other than Naruto, Toneri is the other canon example with such a form.
1.1 Initial Jinchuriki Form (KCM0)
Naruto's first forms involves red slitted pupils where he only had a relatively thin layer of translucent chakra shroud, something of a KCM0 if you would. It is useful in his last fight against Sasuke, only a small amount of chakra is needed to create a layer of chakra to block Sasuke's Amaterasu.
Naruto can't manifest a full Kyuubi avatar in this form, but the corresponding version of the avatar can be seen when it was being extracted from Kushina.
And for the record, the Kurama manifestations you see are avatars, and tailed beasts transformations like 8-tails are Bijuu Mode, not chakra modes.
Also, this category only applies for V1 as V2 is not really a chakra mode.
1.2 Kyuubi Chakra Mode (KCM1)
Fan-dubbed KCM1, this form is seen on both Naruto and Minato, with solid orange chakra but retains their pupils unlike KCM0 and KCM2. Instead of having red eyes that matches Kurama's, he has orange eyes that matches with the beast's chakra colour.
At this point, Naruto was still unable to manifest the full Bijuu Avatar.
1.2 Kurama Chakra Mode (KCM2)
1.2.1 Kurama Chakra Cloak (KCM2.5)
Naruto gains Kurama's cooperation, thicker whisker marks and back to slitted pupils again. It is also called Kurama Link Mode in Ultimate Ninja Storm 4.
Some also refer to a powered-up version as Kurama Chakra Cloak or simply Kurama Cloak, though most are never too bothered to make the distinction.
This form has its corresponding full-fledged Avatar made out of the same colour chakra. Also, Ashura Kurama Mode is technically not a "mode". Naruto was still in KCM2 but just conjured a different avatar.
Although some (Naruto included) call this form simply as "Kurama Mode", to avoid confusion I still prefer to specify it as a chakra mode as well, because Naruto is still capable of turning into this form which also has the same appearance changes but without the yellow chakra
The combination of Kurama (non-Chakra) Mode and Sage Mode is also shown below, called Kurama Sage Mode.
2. Sage Mode
We are not unfamiliar with this as there's quite a few Sage Mode users in Naruto. Mitsuki's Sage Mode is so shiny, it almost seem like a chakra mode as well.
2.1 Sage Mode (regular)
Naruto's Sage Mode involves the pupil of a toad and orange pigmentation around his eyes.
2.2 Six Paths Sage Mode
For the longest time we have accepted that this is Six Paths Sage Mode: "+" pupils in yellow eyes without pigmentation around. The yellow eyes make sense since it comes from the regular Sage Mode, but why does this mode seem to have fox slitted pupils, even though he is not in Kurama Sage Mode? Either
1. This is not just Six Paths Sage Mode. It is also mixed with Kurama Mode. (not Kurama Chakra Mode)
2. Six Paths Sage Mode itself coincidentally also contains a slit.
I think the more logical answer is option 2. Even though it looks almost exactly the same as Kurama Sage Mode (not in chakra mode) except for the lack of pigmentation, the slit of Kurama is thicker at the centre but thinner at the side, whereas the one from SPSM is equally thin throughout.
This creates more ambiguity when Naruto combines his Kurama Chakra Mode with Sage Mode which his eyes turn orange, but when combined with Six Paths Sage Mode, his eyes remained yellow, and the slit remained thin as it was in base form.
Things become more confusing when you realise that only when he activate his chakra cloak, then the "Six Paths Senjutsu" swirling logo (also seen on the back of Juubi Jinchurikis and Hagoromo's forehead) appears and he can manifest truth-seeking orbs. So is this the real Six Paths Sage Mode?
Does Adult Naruto Really Still Have Six Paths Sage Mode
So despite him having no pigmentation in Kurama Sage Mode, he no longer has the Six Paths Senjutsu logo on his back (nor anywhere else), no Truth Seeking Orbs, no Six Paths Yang Seal, his eyes are orange rather than yellow. There's no way to know whether he has precognition since there are no Limbo Clones. Basically there's no real defining trait that we can use to say for sure that this is Six Paths Sage Mode.
Being able to levitate was once a unique ability to Six Paths Sage Mode. However in Naruto: The Last movie he was able to fly in just Kurama Sage Mode. So despite Adult Naruto being able to fly, it doesn't help in the proof.
Another argument is that Six Paths Sage Mode is defined by whether you have the Six Paths Yang Seal. Even though he still seem to retain all his powers like truth seeking orbs for his final fight against Sasuke, that can also be seen as residual chakra.
Another argument is that since Sasuke retains his Rinnegan, there is no reason Naruto don't retain his Six Paths powers. However the Rinnegan is an physical organ that may not need Six Paths chakra to perform. While you can awaken Rinnegan by obtaining what's known as Six Paths chakra, it is not the only way. The concept of Rinnegan comes way before the concept of Six Paths itself, so it is a much broader concept.
Moral of the Story
You realise that all the previous points only says why Naruto can have no Six Paths chakra, but not why he doesn't have. I still believe that he has Six Paths chakra, but the moral of the story is that Narutoverse is one of the most well-established "Hard Magic System" in fiction. There are too many rules to keep track of, and one can have a completely different set of understanding from another. Always challenge your assumptions, even those that seem blatantly obvious to you at first.
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#1
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BatmanPlusJay
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He has six paths sage mode.
1) It's not a bottle of cologne you spray on and it wears off over time. That's just not how did paths sage mode works.
2) You're saying Kishimoto let Sasuke keep his rinnegan and told Naruto "Ey bro, I want my shit back" after Naruto and Sasuke fought? Nowhere in any novel or manga does it state or suggest Naruto's ever lost his six paths power, and yes that mode Naruto was in in the Momoshiki arc is six paths sage mode and you could tell because or the eyes.
3) Naruto was able to touch Toneri's TSB without dying.
Why do people assume Naruto just magically loses things just because they haven't seen it? You don't just assume something is magically lost over time because logic when nothing in the story suggest it's lost except it's absence. The TSB comes with six paths sage mode, but they're not six paths sage mode themselves so it's irrelevant whether they're present or not. The seal is simply a seal, a gift from Hagoromo to take down Kaguya, no correlation to spsm whatsoever.
The answer is much simpler than you're trying to make it. His eyes show he still has six paths sage mode, Naruto flies several times in the Boruto anime and in The Last and yet people are still questioning whether he has the mode or not. It makes no sense.
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#2
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Revold
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@batmanplusjay said:
He has six paths sage mode.
1) It's not a bottle of cologne you spray on and it wears off over time. That's just not how did paths sage mode works.
Reason why I went through all the forms is to properly define all the various characteristics by their correct terminology so as to isolate what exactly makes Six Paths Sage Mode different, especially from regular Sage Mode. The only apparent difference here is what's called "Six Paths Chakra", and we know that chakra depletes and can run out overtime. Whether Hagoromo's gift actually affects Naruto's soul such that it is able to reproduce this chakra is debatable, and until now I have not found concrete evidence to support such claim.
2) You're saying Kishimoto let Sasuke keep his rinnegan and told Naruto "Ey bro, I want my shit back" after Naruto and Sasuke fought? Nowhere in any novel or manga does it state or suggest Naruto's ever lost his six paths power, and yes that mode Naruto was in in the Momoshiki arc is six paths sage mode and you could tell because or the eyes.
Appeal to author's intention is not really a fair logical deduction that can rightfully justify a claim like this. And yes the eyes are probably the only sign of evidence, but going back to my OP, we can't even say for sure if that is what defines SPSM. If so, why is his Senjutsu sign and TSB only appear when he activate his chakra mode? This problem is more apparent when you consider that Hagoromo do not have to be Jinchuriki of anything to materialise his Senjutsu sign on his forehead and one TSB (his Six Paths staff) in just base form.
3) Naruto was able to touch Toneri's TSB without dying.
Well TSB doesn't always instantly deteriorate anything it touches. We see Sasuke standing on Naruto's TSB with no problems, and Madara's TSB touched Minato's back without even leaving holes in his shirt. From what I can tell it depends on the user's conscious will and power at the time, which makes it a very unreliable point to argue.
Why do people assume Naruto just magically loses things just because they haven't seen it? You don't just assume something is magically lost over time because logic when nothing in the story suggest it's lost except it's absence.
Well I didn't assume anything. The whole point of this entire post is to encourage people to challenge their preconceived assumptions, and that things can often go both ways. There are many things to suggest that he has/has not lost it, but none of them proves it.
The TSB comes with six paths sage mode, but they're not six paths sage mode themselves so it's irrelevant whether they're present or not. The seal is simply a seal, a gift from Hagoromo to take down Kaguya, no correlation to spsm whatsoever.
Truth seeking orbs requires different chakra natures from tailed beasts and six paths senjutsu to produce. I'm not saying that just because it disappears, he no longer has SPSM. I'm saying that because it disappears, there's one less reason to believe that he has.
The seal is literally called Six Paths Yang Seal. If he still has the Six Paths powers, then that might be a reason to believe that he has Six Paths chakra, which might very well mean that he has Six Paths Sage Mode.
The answer is much simpler than you're trying to make it. His eyes show he still has six paths sage mode, Naruto flies several times in the Boruto anime and in The Last and yet people are still questioning whether he has the mode or not. It makes no sense.
I've addressed the eyes above, and also the flying part in my OP. The whole reason why I created this post is that while we claim that it doesn't make sense, we can't find a concrete evidence to proof so. All the evidences we find can be interpreted otherwise, and to prove anything at this point requires me to go through almost everything else as well.
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#3
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Streak619
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It's the eye pigments. None of what you said really debunks it. You made an assumption that the vertical slits were inherently part of the mode. And despite having clear distincyions in the slits between KCSM and RKCM, you call it confusing and ambiguous.
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#4
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Revold
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@streak619 said:
It's the eye pigments. None of what you said really debunks it. You made an assumption that the vertical slits were inherently part of the mode. And despite having clear distincyions in the slits between KCSM and RKCM, you call it confusing and ambiguous.
No no no no no wait what?
I'm not debunking. I'm opening up the possibility. It's a "why not" situation.
Nono that's not an assumption. That's a thought experiment. Reason is because it doesn't make logical sense that Six Paths Sage Mode (no Kurama chakra or anything to do with Kurama Mode) shares the same characteristics (slitted eyes) as Kurama Mode. Again if you don't want to consider my "assumption", I'm happy to hear your explanation on that.
Now I'm confused. You claim that there's clear distinctions in the slits, yet you disagree that the vertical slit in SPSM is independent of the one on KCSM (since it is not inherently part of the mode, it is dependent on something else then????)
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#5
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JOVIOLMA
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According to Shikamaru's Light Novel he likely still can use it.
The Nine Tails was still living inside Naruto. There were also remnants of the other 8 bijuu inside him as well. In that way, you could say he was a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails. In the last war, Obito had become a human pillar for the Ten Tails and gained chakra rivalling that of the Sage of the Six Paths. Naruto, who’d taken the bijuu into him as well, had some of the Sage’s power even now.
According to the Fourth Databook, the Six Paths Sage Mode is something that is give directly from Hagoromo, so is kind of unlikely that he would lost his Transformation for no reason, Sasuke's Rinnegan also comes from Hagoromo and he still having it until today.
Six Paths Sage Mode
Ninjutsu, Senjutsu - Sage of Six Paths Mode
No rank, no range, offensive, defensive, supplementary
Users: Naruto Uzumaki
⬅ The floating ability used by the Sage of Six Paths is also almost mastered unconsciously by this technique's user.
From the ancestor of shinobi, a divine state is gifted, touching the principles of all creation, commanding all things in nature
The qualities for obtaining this technique are strict studying and using a small gist in chakra kneading sensibility. An iron faith to face any hardship and the guts to never give up. Furthermore, the returning incarnation and fate's guidance ― this power is granted by the Sage of Six Paths only to someone who holds those. Those who activate the technique come to understand the flow of all life, gain a deep insight at the world's origins and are able to apply it on interacting allies without changing the way of things. This technique isn't something shinobi choose to experience. It is a technique that chooses shinobi.
➡ Kicking the "Truth-Seeking Ball"! Exceeding the Kurama Mode, a feat accomplished by a huge chakra.
⬅The reaction speed is not less than equal to Madara, who had turned into the Ten-Tails' jinchuriki. The sensing ability has also risen!!
The Second Caption says
➡ Kicking the "Truth-Seeking Ball"! Exceeding the Kurama Mode, a feat accomplished by a huge chakra.
Which means one thing, Naruto was already in SPSM even before use his cloak, so we can say that this mode:
Is Six Paths Sage Mode as well but is lacking the chakra cloak.
So when Naruto was fighting against Momo he was indeed using his Six Paths Sage Mode since his eyes were lacking the red pigmentation around, and yes, we already saw Naruto using his Red Pigmentation(Normal Sage Mode) as Hokage.
The only different thing is that Naruto is lacking the Magatamas behind his Cloak, the only thing that I can think is that Naruto is only using Kurama's Yin Yang Chakra instead of use the other Bijuu's Chakra in conjuction, in Shikamaru's Light Novel he was said to be a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails similar to Juubito which would explain why he had the Truth Seeking Orbs and the Magatamas.
So when can say that the Magatamas behind his back were only present because he was a kind of a Juubi Jinchuuriki but he was using just small fragments from the Bijuu's Chakra and with Hagoromo's Chakra he managed to kind of transform this into a mode(Combining Kurama Mode + 8 Bijuu's Small chakra fragments) without necessarily become a Jinchuuriki since we already know that he had the Bijuu's Chakra and was only lacking Shukaku and Gyuki's Chakra.
So to elaborate, Naruto in the War was using the same mode that he used against Momo and Shin, the only difference is that he was using the other Bijuu's Chakra in conjuction, which would explain why his cloak possess a Rinnegan and the Magatamas just like the Juubi Jinchuuriki.
The Databook also says that when someone becomes a Juubi Jinchuuriki they manifest Truth Seeking Orbs.
Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai - Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal
No rank, no range, supplementary
Users: Obito Uchiha, Madara Uchiha
Using one's own body as a yorishiro
Not sublimating into a perfect being
⬇ The moment before he was discarded by Madara, Obito feigned the "Samsara of Heavenly Life" and formed the seals for the "Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal".
This technique let's the user possess the power of a jinchuriki by taking in the ten bodies of all tailed beasts. However, with one body already being hard to control, it's almost impossible to bring them all under one's control. This inevitably results in the collapse of the user's ego. However, very rarely, only one person that possessed innate suitability and acquired mental strength, is allowed to wield a world-shaking power, feared even as the "Nation-Building God"!
➡ Condensed and drawn into the body of the technique's user, the gathered tailed beasts make the true power bloom.
⬆ Obtaining the power of the ten bodies of the tailed beasts is the same as owning the power of the Sage of Six Paths. It's also accompanied by black orbs that are similar to the "Tailed Beast Ball".
So after everything, I think is safe to say that he still possess the SPSM but for some reason is not using the other Bijuu's Chakra.
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#6
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JOVIOLMA
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@batmanplusjay ^^^^ Thoughts ?
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#7
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BatmanPlusJay
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@joviolma: I agree. He doesn't even communicate with the other bijuu, when Momoshiki damn near killed killer bee and the 8 tails, Naruto was completely unaware. But he has the eyes, and he flies. Those two things alone confirm he has spsm. And he has the other bijuu chakra as you proved, he just doesn't keep in contact often.
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#8
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Grinningf0x
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@joviolma: wow thnx for the informative
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#9
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ValorKnight
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Why wouldn't he?
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#10
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AlexTheBoss
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I would assume so
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Does Adult Naruto Really Still Have Six Paths Sage Mode?
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Posted by
Revold
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This used to be a debatable question, but at this age a simple Google search for this question will tell you that THIS is Six Paths Sage Mode, "+" sign without pigmentation, and Adult Naruto managed to reproduce this in Boruto.
But I'm going to present you some alternative theory that might change things altogether.
What is Six Paths Sage Mode??
To answer the question, we first have to determine what is SPSM. To do that, I'll have to go through the characteristics of the previous forms so that we wouldn't get confused, all of which could be classified into two main types: 1. Chakra Mode (and corresponding Tailed Beast avatar); and 2. Sage Mode.
1. Chakra Mode
Chakra Mode, as evident from what we've seen to now, is any mode that covers the body or part of the body (such as arm) with some form of chakra. Other than Naruto, Toneri is the other canon example with such a form.
1.1 Initial Jinchuriki Form (KCM0)
Naruto's first forms involves red slitted pupils where he only had a relatively thin layer of translucent chakra shroud, something of a KCM0 if you would. It is useful in his last fight against Sasuke, only a small amount of chakra is needed to create a layer of chakra to block Sasuke's Amaterasu.
Naruto can't manifest a full Kyuubi avatar in this form, but the corresponding version of the avatar can be seen when it was being extracted from Kushina.
And for the record, the Kurama manifestations you see are avatars, and tailed beasts transformations like 8-tails are Bijuu Mode, not chakra modes.
Also, this category only applies for V1 as V2 is not really a chakra mode.
1.2 Kyuubi Chakra Mode (KCM1)
Fan-dubbed KCM1, this form is seen on both Naruto and Minato, with solid orange chakra but retains their pupils unlike KCM0 and KCM2. Instead of having red eyes that matches Kurama's, he has orange eyes that matches with the beast's chakra colour.
At this point, Naruto was still unable to manifest the full Bijuu Avatar.
1.2 Kurama Chakra Mode (KCM2)
1.2.1 Kurama Chakra Cloak (KCM2.5)
Naruto gains Kurama's cooperation, thicker whisker marks and back to slitted pupils again. It is also called Kurama Link Mode in Ultimate Ninja Storm 4.
Some also refer to a powered-up version as Kurama Chakra Cloak or simply Kurama Cloak, though most are never too bothered to make the distinction.
This form has its corresponding full-fledged Avatar made out of the same colour chakra. Also, Ashura Kurama Mode is technically not a "mode". Naruto was still in KCM2 but just conjured a different avatar.
Although some (Naruto included) call this form simply as "Kurama Mode", to avoid confusion I still prefer to specify it as a chakra mode as well, because Naruto is still capable of turning into this form which also has the same appearance changes but without the yellow chakra
The combination of Kurama (non-Chakra) Mode and Sage Mode is also shown below, called Kurama Sage Mode.
2. Sage Mode
We are not unfamiliar with this as there's quite a few Sage Mode users in Naruto. Mitsuki's Sage Mode is so shiny, it almost seem like a chakra mode as well.
2.1 Sage Mode (regular)
Naruto's Sage Mode involves the pupil of a toad and orange pigmentation around his eyes.
2.2 Six Paths Sage Mode
For the longest time we have accepted that this is Six Paths Sage Mode: "+" pupils in yellow eyes without pigmentation around. The yellow eyes make sense since it comes from the regular Sage Mode, but why does this mode seem to have fox slitted pupils, even though he is not in Kurama Sage Mode? Either
1. This is not just Six Paths Sage Mode. It is also mixed with Kurama Mode. (not Kurama Chakra Mode)
2. Six Paths Sage Mode itself coincidentally also contains a slit.
I think the more logical answer is option 2. Even though it looks almost exactly the same as Kurama Sage Mode (not in chakra mode) except for the lack of pigmentation, the slit of Kurama is thicker at the centre but thinner at the side, whereas the one from SPSM is equally thin throughout.
This creates more ambiguity when Naruto combines his Kurama Chakra Mode with Sage Mode which his eyes turn orange, but when combined with Six Paths Sage Mode, his eyes remained yellow, and the slit remained thin as it was in base form.
Things become more confusing when you realise that only when he activate his chakra cloak, then the "Six Paths Senjutsu" swirling logo (also seen on the back of Juubi Jinchurikis and Hagoromo's forehead) appears and he can manifest truth-seeking orbs. So is this the real Six Paths Sage Mode?
Does Adult Naruto Really Still Have Six Paths Sage Mode
So despite him having no pigmentation in Kurama Sage Mode, he no longer has the Six Paths Senjutsu logo on his back (nor anywhere else), no Truth Seeking Orbs, no Six Paths Yang Seal, his eyes are orange rather than yellow. There's no way to know whether he has precognition since there are no Limbo Clones. Basically there's no real defining trait that we can use to say for sure that this is Six Paths Sage Mode.
Being able to levitate was once a unique ability to Six Paths Sage Mode. However in Naruto: The Last movie he was able to fly in just Kurama Sage Mode. So despite Adult Naruto being able to fly, it doesn't help in the proof.
Another argument is that Six Paths Sage Mode is defined by whether you have the Six Paths Yang Seal. Even though he still seem to retain all his powers like truth seeking orbs for his final fight against Sasuke, that can also be seen as residual chakra.
Another argument is that since Sasuke retains his Rinnegan, there is no reason Naruto don't retain his Six Paths powers. However the Rinnegan is an physical organ that may not need Six Paths chakra to perform. While you can awaken Rinnegan by obtaining what's known as Six Paths chakra, it is not the only way. The concept of Rinnegan comes way before the concept of Six Paths itself, so it is a much broader concept.
Moral of the Story
You realise that all the previous points only says why Naruto can have no Six Paths chakra, but not why he doesn't have. I still believe that he has Six Paths chakra, but the moral of the story is that Narutoverse is one of the most well-established "Hard Magic System" in fiction. There are too many rules to keep track of, and one can have a completely different set of understanding from another. Always challenge your assumptions, even those that seem blatantly obvious to you at first.
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#1
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BatmanPlusJay
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He has six paths sage mode.
1) It's not a bottle of cologne you spray on and it wears off over time. That's just not how did paths sage mode works.
2) You're saying Kishimoto let Sasuke keep his rinnegan and told Naruto "Ey bro, I want my shit back" after Naruto and Sasuke fought? Nowhere in any novel or manga does it state or suggest Naruto's ever lost his six paths power, and yes that mode Naruto was in in the Momoshiki arc is six paths sage mode and you could tell because or the eyes.
3) Naruto was able to touch Toneri's TSB without dying.
Why do people assume Naruto just magically loses things just because they haven't seen it? You don't just assume something is magically lost over time because logic when nothing in the story suggest it's lost except it's absence. The TSB comes with six paths sage mode, but they're not six paths sage mode themselves so it's irrelevant whether they're present or not. The seal is simply a seal, a gift from Hagoromo to take down Kaguya, no correlation to spsm whatsoever.
The answer is much simpler than you're trying to make it. His eyes show he still has six paths sage mode, Naruto flies several times in the Boruto anime and in The Last and yet people are still questioning whether he has the mode or not. It makes no sense.
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#2
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Revold
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@batmanplusjay said:
He has six paths sage mode.
1) It's not a bottle of cologne you spray on and it wears off over time. That's just not how did paths sage mode works.
Reason why I went through all the forms is to properly define all the various characteristics by their correct terminology so as to isolate what exactly makes Six Paths Sage Mode different, especially from regular Sage Mode. The only apparent difference here is what's called "Six Paths Chakra", and we know that chakra depletes and can run out overtime. Whether Hagoromo's gift actually affects Naruto's soul such that it is able to reproduce this chakra is debatable, and until now I have not found concrete evidence to support such claim.
2) You're saying Kishimoto let Sasuke keep his rinnegan and told Naruto "Ey bro, I want my shit back" after Naruto and Sasuke fought? Nowhere in any novel or manga does it state or suggest Naruto's ever lost his six paths power, and yes that mode Naruto was in in the Momoshiki arc is six paths sage mode and you could tell because or the eyes.
Appeal to author's intention is not really a fair logical deduction that can rightfully justify a claim like this. And yes the eyes are probably the only sign of evidence, but going back to my OP, we can't even say for sure if that is what defines SPSM. If so, why is his Senjutsu sign and TSB only appear when he activate his chakra mode? This problem is more apparent when you consider that Hagoromo do not have to be Jinchuriki of anything to materialise his Senjutsu sign on his forehead and one TSB (his Six Paths staff) in just base form.
3) Naruto was able to touch Toneri's TSB without dying.
Well TSB doesn't always instantly deteriorate anything it touches. We see Sasuke standing on Naruto's TSB with no problems, and Madara's TSB touched Minato's back without even leaving holes in his shirt. From what I can tell it depends on the user's conscious will and power at the time, which makes it a very unreliable point to argue.
Why do people assume Naruto just magically loses things just because they haven't seen it? You don't just assume something is magically lost over time because logic when nothing in the story suggest it's lost except it's absence.
Well I didn't assume anything. The whole point of this entire post is to encourage people to challenge their preconceived assumptions, and that things can often go both ways. There are many things to suggest that he has/has not lost it, but none of them proves it.
The TSB comes with six paths sage mode, but they're not six paths sage mode themselves so it's irrelevant whether they're present or not. The seal is simply a seal, a gift from Hagoromo to take down Kaguya, no correlation to spsm whatsoever.
Truth seeking orbs requires different chakra natures from tailed beasts and six paths senjutsu to produce. I'm not saying that just because it disappears, he no longer has SPSM. I'm saying that because it disappears, there's one less reason to believe that he has.
The seal is literally called Six Paths Yang Seal. If he still has the Six Paths powers, then that might be a reason to believe that he has Six Paths chakra, which might very well mean that he has Six Paths Sage Mode.
The answer is much simpler than you're trying to make it. His eyes show he still has six paths sage mode, Naruto flies several times in the Boruto anime and in The Last and yet people are still questioning whether he has the mode or not. It makes no sense.
I've addressed the eyes above, and also the flying part in my OP. The whole reason why I created this post is that while we claim that it doesn't make sense, we can't find a concrete evidence to proof so. All the evidences we find can be interpreted otherwise, and to prove anything at this point requires me to go through almost everything else as well.
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#3
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It's the eye pigments. None of what you said really debunks it. You made an assumption that the vertical slits were inherently part of the mode. And despite having clear distincyions in the slits between KCSM and RKCM, you call it confusing and ambiguous.
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#4
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Revold
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@streak619 said:
It's the eye pigments. None of what you said really debunks it. You made an assumption that the vertical slits were inherently part of the mode. And despite having clear distincyions in the slits between KCSM and RKCM, you call it confusing and ambiguous.
No no no no no wait what?
I'm not debunking. I'm opening up the possibility. It's a "why not" situation.
Nono that's not an assumption. That's a thought experiment. Reason is because it doesn't make logical sense that Six Paths Sage Mode (no Kurama chakra or anything to do with Kurama Mode) shares the same characteristics (slitted eyes) as Kurama Mode. Again if you don't want to consider my "assumption", I'm happy to hear your explanation on that.
Now I'm confused. You claim that there's clear distinctions in the slits, yet you disagree that the vertical slit in SPSM is independent of the one on KCSM (since it is not inherently part of the mode, it is dependent on something else then????)
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#5
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JOVIOLMA
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According to Shikamaru's Light Novel he likely still can use it.
The Nine Tails was still living inside Naruto. There were also remnants of the other 8 bijuu inside him as well. In that way, you could say he was a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails. In the last war, Obito had become a human pillar for the Ten Tails and gained chakra rivalling that of the Sage of the Six Paths. Naruto, who’d taken the bijuu into him as well, had some of the Sage’s power even now.
According to the Fourth Databook, the Six Paths Sage Mode is something that is give directly from Hagoromo, so is kind of unlikely that he would lost his Transformation for no reason, Sasuke's Rinnegan also comes from Hagoromo and he still having it until today.
Six Paths Sage Mode
Ninjutsu, Senjutsu - Sage of Six Paths Mode
No rank, no range, offensive, defensive, supplementary
Users: Naruto Uzumaki
⬅ The floating ability used by the Sage of Six Paths is also almost mastered unconsciously by this technique's user.
From the ancestor of shinobi, a divine state is gifted, touching the principles of all creation, commanding all things in nature
The qualities for obtaining this technique are strict studying and using a small gist in chakra kneading sensibility. An iron faith to face any hardship and the guts to never give up. Furthermore, the returning incarnation and fate's guidance ― this power is granted by the Sage of Six Paths only to someone who holds those. Those who activate the technique come to understand the flow of all life, gain a deep insight at the world's origins and are able to apply it on interacting allies without changing the way of things. This technique isn't something shinobi choose to experience. It is a technique that chooses shinobi.
➡ Kicking the "Truth-Seeking Ball"! Exceeding the Kurama Mode, a feat accomplished by a huge chakra.
⬅The reaction speed is not less than equal to Madara, who had turned into the Ten-Tails' jinchuriki. The sensing ability has also risen!!
The Second Caption says
➡ Kicking the "Truth-Seeking Ball"! Exceeding the Kurama Mode, a feat accomplished by a huge chakra.
Which means one thing, Naruto was already in SPSM even before use his cloak, so we can say that this mode:
Is Six Paths Sage Mode as well but is lacking the chakra cloak.
So when Naruto was fighting against Momo he was indeed using his Six Paths Sage Mode since his eyes were lacking the red pigmentation around, and yes, we already saw Naruto using his Red Pigmentation(Normal Sage Mode) as Hokage.
The only different thing is that Naruto is lacking the Magatamas behind his Cloak, the only thing that I can think is that Naruto is only using Kurama's Yin Yang Chakra instead of use the other Bijuu's Chakra in conjuction, in Shikamaru's Light Novel he was said to be a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails similar to Juubito which would explain why he had the Truth Seeking Orbs and the Magatamas.
So when can say that the Magatamas behind his back were only present because he was a kind of a Juubi Jinchuuriki but he was using just small fragments from the Bijuu's Chakra and with Hagoromo's Chakra he managed to kind of transform this into a mode(Combining Kurama Mode + 8 Bijuu's Small chakra fragments) without necessarily become a Jinchuuriki since we already know that he had the Bijuu's Chakra and was only lacking Shukaku and Gyuki's Chakra.
So to elaborate, Naruto in the War was using the same mode that he used against Momo and Shin, the only difference is that he was using the other Bijuu's Chakra in conjuction, which would explain why his cloak possess a Rinnegan and the Magatamas just like the Juubi Jinchuuriki.
The Databook also says that when someone becomes a Juubi Jinchuuriki they manifest Truth Seeking Orbs.
Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai - Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal
No rank, no range, supplementary
Users: Obito Uchiha, Madara Uchiha
Using one's own body as a yorishiro
Not sublimating into a perfect being
⬇ The moment before he was discarded by Madara, Obito feigned the "Samsara of Heavenly Life" and formed the seals for the "Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal".
This technique let's the user possess the power of a jinchuriki by taking in the ten bodies of all tailed beasts. However, with one body already being hard to control, it's almost impossible to bring them all under one's control. This inevitably results in the collapse of the user's ego. However, very rarely, only one person that possessed innate suitability and acquired mental strength, is allowed to wield a world-shaking power, feared even as the "Nation-Building God"!
➡ Condensed and drawn into the body of the technique's user, the gathered tailed beasts make the true power bloom.
⬆ Obtaining the power of the ten bodies of the tailed beasts is the same as owning the power of the Sage of Six Paths. It's also accompanied by black orbs that are similar to the "Tailed Beast Ball".
So after everything, I think is safe to say that he still possess the SPSM but for some reason is not using the other Bijuu's Chakra.
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#6
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JOVIOLMA
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@batmanplusjay ^^^^ Thoughts ?
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#7
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BatmanPlusJay
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@joviolma: I agree. He doesn't even communicate with the other bijuu, when Momoshiki damn near killed killer bee and the 8 tails, Naruto was completely unaware. But he has the eyes, and he flies. Those two things alone confirm he has spsm. And he has the other bijuu chakra as you proved, he just doesn't keep in contact often.
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#8
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Grinningf0x
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@joviolma: wow thnx for the informative
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#9
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ValorKnight
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Why wouldn't he?
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#10
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AlexTheBoss
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I would assume so
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Does Adult Naruto Really Still Have Six Paths Sage Mode?
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Revold
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This used to be a debatable question, but at this age a simple Google search for this question will tell you that THIS is Six Paths Sage Mode, "+" sign without pigmentation, and Adult Naruto managed to reproduce this in Boruto.
But I'm going to present you some alternative theory that might change things altogether.
What is Six Paths Sage Mode??
To answer the question, we first have to determine what is SPSM. To do that, I'll have to go through the characteristics of the previous forms so that we wouldn't get confused, all of which could be classified into two main types: 1. Chakra Mode (and corresponding Tailed Beast avatar); and 2. Sage Mode.
1. Chakra Mode
Chakra Mode, as evident from what we've seen to now, is any mode that covers the body or part of the body (such as arm) with some form of chakra. Other than Naruto, Toneri is the other canon example with such a form.
1.1 Initial Jinchuriki Form (KCM0)
Naruto's first forms involves red slitted pupils where he only had a relatively thin layer of translucent chakra shroud, something of a KCM0 if you would. It is useful in his last fight against Sasuke, only a small amount of chakra is needed to create a layer of chakra to block Sasuke's Amaterasu.
Naruto can't manifest a full Kyuubi avatar in this form, but the corresponding version of the avatar can be seen when it was being extracted from Kushina.
And for the record, the Kurama manifestations you see are avatars, and tailed beasts transformations like 8-tails are Bijuu Mode, not chakra modes.
Also, this category only applies for V1 as V2 is not really a chakra mode.
1.2 Kyuubi Chakra Mode (KCM1)
Fan-dubbed KCM1, this form is seen on both Naruto and Minato, with solid orange chakra but retains their pupils unlike KCM0 and KCM2. Instead of having red eyes that matches Kurama's, he has orange eyes that matches with the beast's chakra colour.
At this point, Naruto was still unable to manifest the full Bijuu Avatar.
1.2 Kurama Chakra Mode (KCM2)
1.2.1 Kurama Chakra Cloak (KCM2.5)
Naruto gains Kurama's cooperation, thicker whisker marks and back to slitted pupils again. It is also called Kurama Link Mode in Ultimate Ninja Storm 4.
Some also refer to a powered-up version as Kurama Chakra Cloak or simply Kurama Cloak, though most are never too bothered to make the distinction.
This form has its corresponding full-fledged Avatar made out of the same colour chakra. Also, Ashura Kurama Mode is technically not a "mode". Naruto was still in KCM2 but just conjured a different avatar.
Although some (Naruto included) call this form simply as "Kurama Mode", to avoid confusion I still prefer to specify it as a chakra mode as well, because Naruto is still capable of turning into this form which also has the same appearance changes but without the yellow chakra
The combination of Kurama (non-Chakra) Mode and Sage Mode is also shown below, called Kurama Sage Mode.
2. Sage Mode
We are not unfamiliar with this as there's quite a few Sage Mode users in Naruto. Mitsuki's Sage Mode is so shiny, it almost seem like a chakra mode as well.
2.1 Sage Mode (regular)
Naruto's Sage Mode involves the pupil of a toad and orange pigmentation around his eyes.
2.2 Six Paths Sage Mode
For the longest time we have accepted that this is Six Paths Sage Mode: "+" pupils in yellow eyes without pigmentation around. The yellow eyes make sense since it comes from the regular Sage Mode, but why does this mode seem to have fox slitted pupils, even though he is not in Kurama Sage Mode? Either
1. This is not just Six Paths Sage Mode. It is also mixed with Kurama Mode. (not Kurama Chakra Mode)
2. Six Paths Sage Mode itself coincidentally also contains a slit.
I think the more logical answer is option 2. Even though it looks almost exactly the same as Kurama Sage Mode (not in chakra mode) except for the lack of pigmentation, the slit of Kurama is thicker at the centre but thinner at the side, whereas the one from SPSM is equally thin throughout.
This creates more ambiguity when Naruto combines his Kurama Chakra Mode with Sage Mode which his eyes turn orange, but when combined with Six Paths Sage Mode, his eyes remained yellow, and the slit remained thin as it was in base form.
Things become more confusing when you realise that only when he activate his chakra cloak, then the "Six Paths Senjutsu" swirling logo (also seen on the back of Juubi Jinchurikis and Hagoromo's forehead) appears and he can manifest truth-seeking orbs. So is this the real Six Paths Sage Mode?
Does Adult Naruto Really Still Have Six Paths Sage Mode
So despite him having no pigmentation in Kurama Sage Mode, he no longer has the Six Paths Senjutsu logo on his back (nor anywhere else), no Truth Seeking Orbs, no Six Paths Yang Seal, his eyes are orange rather than yellow. There's no way to know whether he has precognition since there are no Limbo Clones. Basically there's no real defining trait that we can use to say for sure that this is Six Paths Sage Mode.
Being able to levitate was once a unique ability to Six Paths Sage Mode. However in Naruto: The Last movie he was able to fly in just Kurama Sage Mode. So despite Adult Naruto being able to fly, it doesn't help in the proof.
Another argument is that Six Paths Sage Mode is defined by whether you have the Six Paths Yang Seal. Even though he still seem to retain all his powers like truth seeking orbs for his final fight against Sasuke, that can also be seen as residual chakra.
Another argument is that since Sasuke retains his Rinnegan, there is no reason Naruto don't retain his Six Paths powers. However the Rinnegan is an physical organ that may not need Six Paths chakra to perform. While you can awaken Rinnegan by obtaining what's known as Six Paths chakra, it is not the only way. The concept of Rinnegan comes way before the concept of Six Paths itself, so it is a much broader concept.
Moral of the Story
You realise that all the previous points only says why Naruto can have no Six Paths chakra, but not why he doesn't have. I still believe that he has Six Paths chakra, but the moral of the story is that Narutoverse is one of the most well-established "Hard Magic System" in fiction. There are too many rules to keep track of, and one can have a completely different set of understanding from another. Always challenge your assumptions, even those that seem blatantly obvious to you at first.
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#1
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BatmanPlusJay
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He has six paths sage mode.
1) It's not a bottle of cologne you spray on and it wears off over time. That's just not how did paths sage mode works.
2) You're saying Kishimoto let Sasuke keep his rinnegan and told Naruto "Ey bro, I want my shit back" after Naruto and Sasuke fought? Nowhere in any novel or manga does it state or suggest Naruto's ever lost his six paths power, and yes that mode Naruto was in in the Momoshiki arc is six paths sage mode and you could tell because or the eyes.
3) Naruto was able to touch Toneri's TSB without dying.
Why do people assume Naruto just magically loses things just because they haven't seen it? You don't just assume something is magically lost over time because logic when nothing in the story suggest it's lost except it's absence. The TSB comes with six paths sage mode, but they're not six paths sage mode themselves so it's irrelevant whether they're present or not. The seal is simply a seal, a gift from Hagoromo to take down Kaguya, no correlation to spsm whatsoever.
The answer is much simpler than you're trying to make it. His eyes show he still has six paths sage mode, Naruto flies several times in the Boruto anime and in The Last and yet people are still questioning whether he has the mode or not. It makes no sense.
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#2
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Revold
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@batmanplusjay said:
He has six paths sage mode.
1) It's not a bottle of cologne you spray on and it wears off over time. That's just not how did paths sage mode works.
Reason why I went through all the forms is to properly define all the various characteristics by their correct terminology so as to isolate what exactly makes Six Paths Sage Mode different, especially from regular Sage Mode. The only apparent difference here is what's called "Six Paths Chakra", and we know that chakra depletes and can run out overtime. Whether Hagoromo's gift actually affects Naruto's soul such that it is able to reproduce this chakra is debatable, and until now I have not found concrete evidence to support such claim.
2) You're saying Kishimoto let Sasuke keep his rinnegan and told Naruto "Ey bro, I want my shit back" after Naruto and Sasuke fought? Nowhere in any novel or manga does it state or suggest Naruto's ever lost his six paths power, and yes that mode Naruto was in in the Momoshiki arc is six paths sage mode and you could tell because or the eyes.
Appeal to author's intention is not really a fair logical deduction that can rightfully justify a claim like this. And yes the eyes are probably the only sign of evidence, but going back to my OP, we can't even say for sure if that is what defines SPSM. If so, why is his Senjutsu sign and TSB only appear when he activate his chakra mode? This problem is more apparent when you consider that Hagoromo do not have to be Jinchuriki of anything to materialise his Senjutsu sign on his forehead and one TSB (his Six Paths staff) in just base form.
3) Naruto was able to touch Toneri's TSB without dying.
Well TSB doesn't always instantly deteriorate anything it touches. We see Sasuke standing on Naruto's TSB with no problems, and Madara's TSB touched Minato's back without even leaving holes in his shirt. From what I can tell it depends on the user's conscious will and power at the time, which makes it a very unreliable point to argue.
Why do people assume Naruto just magically loses things just because they haven't seen it? You don't just assume something is magically lost over time because logic when nothing in the story suggest it's lost except it's absence.
Well I didn't assume anything. The whole point of this entire post is to encourage people to challenge their preconceived assumptions, and that things can often go both ways. There are many things to suggest that he has/has not lost it, but none of them proves it.
The TSB comes with six paths sage mode, but they're not six paths sage mode themselves so it's irrelevant whether they're present or not. The seal is simply a seal, a gift from Hagoromo to take down Kaguya, no correlation to spsm whatsoever.
Truth seeking orbs requires different chakra natures from tailed beasts and six paths senjutsu to produce. I'm not saying that just because it disappears, he no longer has SPSM. I'm saying that because it disappears, there's one less reason to believe that he has.
The seal is literally called Six Paths Yang Seal. If he still has the Six Paths powers, then that might be a reason to believe that he has Six Paths chakra, which might very well mean that he has Six Paths Sage Mode.
The answer is much simpler than you're trying to make it. His eyes show he still has six paths sage mode, Naruto flies several times in the Boruto anime and in The Last and yet people are still questioning whether he has the mode or not. It makes no sense.
I've addressed the eyes above, and also the flying part in my OP. The whole reason why I created this post is that while we claim that it doesn't make sense, we can't find a concrete evidence to proof so. All the evidences we find can be interpreted otherwise, and to prove anything at this point requires me to go through almost everything else as well.
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#3
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It's the eye pigments. None of what you said really debunks it. You made an assumption that the vertical slits were inherently part of the mode. And despite having clear distincyions in the slits between KCSM and RKCM, you call it confusing and ambiguous.
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#4
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Revold
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@streak619 said:
It's the eye pigments. None of what you said really debunks it. You made an assumption that the vertical slits were inherently part of the mode. And despite having clear distincyions in the slits between KCSM and RKCM, you call it confusing and ambiguous.
No no no no no wait what?
I'm not debunking. I'm opening up the possibility. It's a "why not" situation.
Nono that's not an assumption. That's a thought experiment. Reason is because it doesn't make logical sense that Six Paths Sage Mode (no Kurama chakra or anything to do with Kurama Mode) shares the same characteristics (slitted eyes) as Kurama Mode. Again if you don't want to consider my "assumption", I'm happy to hear your explanation on that.
Now I'm confused. You claim that there's clear distinctions in the slits, yet you disagree that the vertical slit in SPSM is independent of the one on KCSM (since it is not inherently part of the mode, it is dependent on something else then????)
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#5
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JOVIOLMA
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According to Shikamaru's Light Novel he likely still can use it.
The Nine Tails was still living inside Naruto. There were also remnants of the other 8 bijuu inside him as well. In that way, you could say he was a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails. In the last war, Obito had become a human pillar for the Ten Tails and gained chakra rivalling that of the Sage of the Six Paths. Naruto, who’d taken the bijuu into him as well, had some of the Sage’s power even now.
According to the Fourth Databook, the Six Paths Sage Mode is something that is give directly from Hagoromo, so is kind of unlikely that he would lost his Transformation for no reason, Sasuke's Rinnegan also comes from Hagoromo and he still having it until today.
Six Paths Sage Mode
Ninjutsu, Senjutsu - Sage of Six Paths Mode
No rank, no range, offensive, defensive, supplementary
Users: Naruto Uzumaki
⬅ The floating ability used by the Sage of Six Paths is also almost mastered unconsciously by this technique's user.
From the ancestor of shinobi, a divine state is gifted, touching the principles of all creation, commanding all things in nature
The qualities for obtaining this technique are strict studying and using a small gist in chakra kneading sensibility. An iron faith to face any hardship and the guts to never give up. Furthermore, the returning incarnation and fate's guidance ― this power is granted by the Sage of Six Paths only to someone who holds those. Those who activate the technique come to understand the flow of all life, gain a deep insight at the world's origins and are able to apply it on interacting allies without changing the way of things. This technique isn't something shinobi choose to experience. It is a technique that chooses shinobi.
➡ Kicking the "Truth-Seeking Ball"! Exceeding the Kurama Mode, a feat accomplished by a huge chakra.
⬅The reaction speed is not less than equal to Madara, who had turned into the Ten-Tails' jinchuriki. The sensing ability has also risen!!
The Second Caption says
➡ Kicking the "Truth-Seeking Ball"! Exceeding the Kurama Mode, a feat accomplished by a huge chakra.
Which means one thing, Naruto was already in SPSM even before use his cloak, so we can say that this mode:
Is Six Paths Sage Mode as well but is lacking the chakra cloak.
So when Naruto was fighting against Momo he was indeed using his Six Paths Sage Mode since his eyes were lacking the red pigmentation around, and yes, we already saw Naruto using his Red Pigmentation(Normal Sage Mode) as Hokage.
The only different thing is that Naruto is lacking the Magatamas behind his Cloak, the only thing that I can think is that Naruto is only using Kurama's Yin Yang Chakra instead of use the other Bijuu's Chakra in conjuction, in Shikamaru's Light Novel he was said to be a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails similar to Juubito which would explain why he had the Truth Seeking Orbs and the Magatamas.
So when can say that the Magatamas behind his back were only present because he was a kind of a Juubi Jinchuuriki but he was using just small fragments from the Bijuu's Chakra and with Hagoromo's Chakra he managed to kind of transform this into a mode(Combining Kurama Mode + 8 Bijuu's Small chakra fragments) without necessarily become a Jinchuuriki since we already know that he had the Bijuu's Chakra and was only lacking Shukaku and Gyuki's Chakra.
So to elaborate, Naruto in the War was using the same mode that he used against Momo and Shin, the only difference is that he was using the other Bijuu's Chakra in conjuction, which would explain why his cloak possess a Rinnegan and the Magatamas just like the Juubi Jinchuuriki.
The Databook also says that when someone becomes a Juubi Jinchuuriki they manifest Truth Seeking Orbs.
Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai - Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal
No rank, no range, supplementary
Users: Obito Uchiha, Madara Uchiha
Using one's own body as a yorishiro
Not sublimating into a perfect being
⬇ The moment before he was discarded by Madara, Obito feigned the "Samsara of Heavenly Life" and formed the seals for the "Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal".
This technique let's the user possess the power of a jinchuriki by taking in the ten bodies of all tailed beasts. However, with one body already being hard to control, it's almost impossible to bring them all under one's control. This inevitably results in the collapse of the user's ego. However, very rarely, only one person that possessed innate suitability and acquired mental strength, is allowed to wield a world-shaking power, feared even as the "Nation-Building God"!
➡ Condensed and drawn into the body of the technique's user, the gathered tailed beasts make the true power bloom.
⬆ Obtaining the power of the ten bodies of the tailed beasts is the same as owning the power of the Sage of Six Paths. It's also accompanied by black orbs that are similar to the "Tailed Beast Ball".
So after everything, I think is safe to say that he still possess the SPSM but for some reason is not using the other Bijuu's Chakra.
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#6
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@batmanplusjay ^^^^ Thoughts ?
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#7
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BatmanPlusJay
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@joviolma: I agree. He doesn't even communicate with the other bijuu, when Momoshiki damn near killed killer bee and the 8 tails, Naruto was completely unaware. But he has the eyes, and he flies. Those two things alone confirm he has spsm. And he has the other bijuu chakra as you proved, he just doesn't keep in contact often.
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#8
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Grinningf0x
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@joviolma: wow thnx for the informative
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#9
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ValorKnight
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Why wouldn't he?
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#10
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I would assume so
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This used to be a debatable question, but at this age a simple Google search for this question will tell you that THIS is Six Paths Sage Mode, "+" sign without pigmentation, and Adult Naruto managed to reproduce this in Boruto.
But I'm going to present you some alternative theory that might change things altogether.
What is Six Paths Sage Mode??
To answer the question, we first have to determine what is SPSM. To do that, I'll have to go through the characteristics of the previous forms so that we wouldn't get confused, all of which could be classified into two main types: 1. Chakra Mode (and corresponding Tailed Beast avatar); and 2. Sage Mode.
1. Chakra Mode
Chakra Mode, as evident from what we've seen to now, is any mode that covers the body or part of the body (such as arm) with some form of chakra. Other than Naruto, Toneri is the other canon example with such a form.
1.1 Initial Jinchuriki Form (KCM0)
Naruto's first forms involves red slitted pupils where he only had a relatively thin layer of translucent chakra shroud, something of a KCM0 if you would. It is useful in his last fight against Sasuke, only a small amount of chakra is needed to create a layer of chakra to block Sasuke's Amaterasu.
Naruto can't manifest a full Kyuubi avatar in this form, but the corresponding version of the avatar can be seen when it was being extracted from Kushina.
And for the record, the Kurama manifestations you see are avatars, and tailed beasts transformations like 8-tails are Bijuu Mode, not chakra modes.
Also, this category only applies for V1 as V2 is not really a chakra mode.
1.2 Kyuubi Chakra Mode (KCM1)
Fan-dubbed KCM1, this form is seen on both Naruto and Minato, with solid orange chakra but retains their pupils unlike KCM0 and KCM2. Instead of having red eyes that matches Kurama's, he has orange eyes that matches with the beast's chakra colour.
At this point, Naruto was still unable to manifest the full Bijuu Avatar.
1.2 Kurama Chakra Mode (KCM2)
1.2.1 Kurama Chakra Cloak (KCM2.5)
Naruto gains Kurama's cooperation, thicker whisker marks and back to slitted pupils again. It is also called Kurama Link Mode in Ultimate Ninja Storm 4.
Some also refer to a powered-up version as Kurama Chakra Cloak or simply Kurama Cloak, though most are never too bothered to make the distinction.
This form has its corresponding full-fledged Avatar made out of the same colour chakra. Also, Ashura Kurama Mode is technically not a "mode". Naruto was still in KCM2 but just conjured a different avatar.
Although some (Naruto included) call this form simply as "Kurama Mode", to avoid confusion I still prefer to specify it as a chakra mode as well, because Naruto is still capable of turning into this form which also has the same appearance changes but without the yellow chakra
The combination of Kurama (non-Chakra) Mode and Sage Mode is also shown below, called Kurama Sage Mode.
2. Sage Mode
We are not unfamiliar with this as there's quite a few Sage Mode users in Naruto. Mitsuki's Sage Mode is so shiny, it almost seem like a chakra mode as well.
2.1 Sage Mode (regular)
Naruto's Sage Mode involves the pupil of a toad and orange pigmentation around his eyes.
2.2 Six Paths Sage Mode
For the longest time we have accepted that this is Six Paths Sage Mode: "+" pupils in yellow eyes without pigmentation around. The yellow eyes make sense since it comes from the regular Sage Mode, but why does this mode seem to have fox slitted pupils, even though he is not in Kurama Sage Mode? Either
1. This is not just Six Paths Sage Mode. It is also mixed with Kurama Mode. (not Kurama Chakra Mode)
2. Six Paths Sage Mode itself coincidentally also contains a slit.
I think the more logical answer is option 2. Even though it looks almost exactly the same as Kurama Sage Mode (not in chakra mode) except for the lack of pigmentation, the slit of Kurama is thicker at the centre but thinner at the side, whereas the one from SPSM is equally thin throughout.
This creates more ambiguity when Naruto combines his Kurama Chakra Mode with Sage Mode which his eyes turn orange, but when combined with Six Paths Sage Mode, his eyes remained yellow, and the slit remained thin as it was in base form.
Things become more confusing when you realise that only when he activate his chakra cloak, then the "Six Paths Senjutsu" swirling logo (also seen on the back of Juubi Jinchurikis and Hagoromo's forehead) appears and he can manifest truth-seeking orbs. So is this the real Six Paths Sage Mode?
Does Adult Naruto Really Still Have Six Paths Sage Mode
So despite him having no pigmentation in Kurama Sage Mode, he no longer has the Six Paths Senjutsu logo on his back (nor anywhere else), no Truth Seeking Orbs, no Six Paths Yang Seal, his eyes are orange rather than yellow. There's no way to know whether he has precognition since there are no Limbo Clones. Basically there's no real defining trait that we can use to say for sure that this is Six Paths Sage Mode.
Being able to levitate was once a unique ability to Six Paths Sage Mode. However in Naruto: The Last movie he was able to fly in just Kurama Sage Mode. So despite Adult Naruto being able to fly, it doesn't help in the proof.
Another argument is that Six Paths Sage Mode is defined by whether you have the Six Paths Yang Seal. Even though he still seem to retain all his powers like truth seeking orbs for his final fight against Sasuke, that can also be seen as residual chakra.
Another argument is that since Sasuke retains his Rinnegan, there is no reason Naruto don't retain his Six Paths powers. However the Rinnegan is an physical organ that may not need Six Paths chakra to perform. While you can awaken Rinnegan by obtaining what's known as Six Paths chakra, it is not the only way. The concept of Rinnegan comes way before the concept of Six Paths itself, so it is a much broader concept.
Moral of the Story
You realise that all the previous points only says why Naruto can have no Six Paths chakra, but not why he doesn't have. I still believe that he has Six Paths chakra, but the moral of the story is that Narutoverse is one of the most well-established "Hard Magic System" in fiction. There are too many rules to keep track of, and one can have a completely different set of understanding from another. Always challenge your assumptions, even those that seem blatantly obvious to you at first.
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#1
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BatmanPlusJay
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He has six paths sage mode.
1) It's not a bottle of cologne you spray on and it wears off over time. That's just not how did paths sage mode works.
2) You're saying Kishimoto let Sasuke keep his rinnegan and told Naruto "Ey bro, I want my shit back" after Naruto and Sasuke fought? Nowhere in any novel or manga does it state or suggest Naruto's ever lost his six paths power, and yes that mode Naruto was in in the Momoshiki arc is six paths sage mode and you could tell because or the eyes.
3) Naruto was able to touch Toneri's TSB without dying.
Why do people assume Naruto just magically loses things just because they haven't seen it? You don't just assume something is magically lost over time because logic when nothing in the story suggest it's lost except it's absence. The TSB comes with six paths sage mode, but they're not six paths sage mode themselves so it's irrelevant whether they're present or not. The seal is simply a seal, a gift from Hagoromo to take down Kaguya, no correlation to spsm whatsoever.
The answer is much simpler than you're trying to make it. His eyes show he still has six paths sage mode, Naruto flies several times in the Boruto anime and in The Last and yet people are still questioning whether he has the mode or not. It makes no sense.
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#2
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Revold
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@batmanplusjay said:
He has six paths sage mode.
1) It's not a bottle of cologne you spray on and it wears off over time. That's just not how did paths sage mode works.
Reason why I went through all the forms is to properly define all the various characteristics by their correct terminology so as to isolate what exactly makes Six Paths Sage Mode different, especially from regular Sage Mode. The only apparent difference here is what's called "Six Paths Chakra", and we know that chakra depletes and can run out overtime. Whether Hagoromo's gift actually affects Naruto's soul such that it is able to reproduce this chakra is debatable, and until now I have not found concrete evidence to support such claim.
2) You're saying Kishimoto let Sasuke keep his rinnegan and told Naruto "Ey bro, I want my shit back" after Naruto and Sasuke fought? Nowhere in any novel or manga does it state or suggest Naruto's ever lost his six paths power, and yes that mode Naruto was in in the Momoshiki arc is six paths sage mode and you could tell because or the eyes.
Appeal to author's intention is not really a fair logical deduction that can rightfully justify a claim like this. And yes the eyes are probably the only sign of evidence, but going back to my OP, we can't even say for sure if that is what defines SPSM. If so, why is his Senjutsu sign and TSB only appear when he activate his chakra mode? This problem is more apparent when you consider that Hagoromo do not have to be Jinchuriki of anything to materialise his Senjutsu sign on his forehead and one TSB (his Six Paths staff) in just base form.
3) Naruto was able to touch Toneri's TSB without dying.
Well TSB doesn't always instantly deteriorate anything it touches. We see Sasuke standing on Naruto's TSB with no problems, and Madara's TSB touched Minato's back without even leaving holes in his shirt. From what I can tell it depends on the user's conscious will and power at the time, which makes it a very unreliable point to argue.
Why do people assume Naruto just magically loses things just because they haven't seen it? You don't just assume something is magically lost over time because logic when nothing in the story suggest it's lost except it's absence.
Well I didn't assume anything. The whole point of this entire post is to encourage people to challenge their preconceived assumptions, and that things can often go both ways. There are many things to suggest that he has/has not lost it, but none of them proves it.
The TSB comes with six paths sage mode, but they're not six paths sage mode themselves so it's irrelevant whether they're present or not. The seal is simply a seal, a gift from Hagoromo to take down Kaguya, no correlation to spsm whatsoever.
Truth seeking orbs requires different chakra natures from tailed beasts and six paths senjutsu to produce. I'm not saying that just because it disappears, he no longer has SPSM. I'm saying that because it disappears, there's one less reason to believe that he has.
The seal is literally called Six Paths Yang Seal. If he still has the Six Paths powers, then that might be a reason to believe that he has Six Paths chakra, which might very well mean that he has Six Paths Sage Mode.
The answer is much simpler than you're trying to make it. His eyes show he still has six paths sage mode, Naruto flies several times in the Boruto anime and in The Last and yet people are still questioning whether he has the mode or not. It makes no sense.
I've addressed the eyes above, and also the flying part in my OP. The whole reason why I created this post is that while we claim that it doesn't make sense, we can't find a concrete evidence to proof so. All the evidences we find can be interpreted otherwise, and to prove anything at this point requires me to go through almost everything else as well.
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#3
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It's the eye pigments. None of what you said really debunks it. You made an assumption that the vertical slits were inherently part of the mode. And despite having clear distincyions in the slits between KCSM and RKCM, you call it confusing and ambiguous.
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#4
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Revold
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@streak619 said:
It's the eye pigments. None of what you said really debunks it. You made an assumption that the vertical slits were inherently part of the mode. And despite having clear distincyions in the slits between KCSM and RKCM, you call it confusing and ambiguous.
No no no no no wait what?
I'm not debunking. I'm opening up the possibility. It's a "why not" situation.
Nono that's not an assumption. That's a thought experiment. Reason is because it doesn't make logical sense that Six Paths Sage Mode (no Kurama chakra or anything to do with Kurama Mode) shares the same characteristics (slitted eyes) as Kurama Mode. Again if you don't want to consider my "assumption", I'm happy to hear your explanation on that.
Now I'm confused. You claim that there's clear distinctions in the slits, yet you disagree that the vertical slit in SPSM is independent of the one on KCSM (since it is not inherently part of the mode, it is dependent on something else then????)
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#5
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JOVIOLMA
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According to Shikamaru's Light Novel he likely still can use it.
The Nine Tails was still living inside Naruto. There were also remnants of the other 8 bijuu inside him as well. In that way, you could say he was a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails. In the last war, Obito had become a human pillar for the Ten Tails and gained chakra rivalling that of the Sage of the Six Paths. Naruto, who’d taken the bijuu into him as well, had some of the Sage’s power even now.
According to the Fourth Databook, the Six Paths Sage Mode is something that is give directly from Hagoromo, so is kind of unlikely that he would lost his Transformation for no reason, Sasuke's Rinnegan also comes from Hagoromo and he still having it until today.
Six Paths Sage Mode
Ninjutsu, Senjutsu - Sage of Six Paths Mode
No rank, no range, offensive, defensive, supplementary
Users: Naruto Uzumaki
⬅ The floating ability used by the Sage of Six Paths is also almost mastered unconsciously by this technique's user.
From the ancestor of shinobi, a divine state is gifted, touching the principles of all creation, commanding all things in nature
The qualities for obtaining this technique are strict studying and using a small gist in chakra kneading sensibility. An iron faith to face any hardship and the guts to never give up. Furthermore, the returning incarnation and fate's guidance ― this power is granted by the Sage of Six Paths only to someone who holds those. Those who activate the technique come to understand the flow of all life, gain a deep insight at the world's origins and are able to apply it on interacting allies without changing the way of things. This technique isn't something shinobi choose to experience. It is a technique that chooses shinobi.
➡ Kicking the "Truth-Seeking Ball"! Exceeding the Kurama Mode, a feat accomplished by a huge chakra.
⬅The reaction speed is not less than equal to Madara, who had turned into the Ten-Tails' jinchuriki. The sensing ability has also risen!!
The Second Caption says
➡ Kicking the "Truth-Seeking Ball"! Exceeding the Kurama Mode, a feat accomplished by a huge chakra.
Which means one thing, Naruto was already in SPSM even before use his cloak, so we can say that this mode:
Is Six Paths Sage Mode as well but is lacking the chakra cloak.
So when Naruto was fighting against Momo he was indeed using his Six Paths Sage Mode since his eyes were lacking the red pigmentation around, and yes, we already saw Naruto using his Red Pigmentation(Normal Sage Mode) as Hokage.
The only different thing is that Naruto is lacking the Magatamas behind his Cloak, the only thing that I can think is that Naruto is only using Kurama's Yin Yang Chakra instead of use the other Bijuu's Chakra in conjuction, in Shikamaru's Light Novel he was said to be a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails similar to Juubito which would explain why he had the Truth Seeking Orbs and the Magatamas.
So when can say that the Magatamas behind his back were only present because he was a kind of a Juubi Jinchuuriki but he was using just small fragments from the Bijuu's Chakra and with Hagoromo's Chakra he managed to kind of transform this into a mode(Combining Kurama Mode + 8 Bijuu's Small chakra fragments) without necessarily become a Jinchuuriki since we already know that he had the Bijuu's Chakra and was only lacking Shukaku and Gyuki's Chakra.
So to elaborate, Naruto in the War was using the same mode that he used against Momo and Shin, the only difference is that he was using the other Bijuu's Chakra in conjuction, which would explain why his cloak possess a Rinnegan and the Magatamas just like the Juubi Jinchuuriki.
The Databook also says that when someone becomes a Juubi Jinchuuriki they manifest Truth Seeking Orbs.
Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai - Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal
No rank, no range, supplementary
Users: Obito Uchiha, Madara Uchiha
Using one's own body as a yorishiro
Not sublimating into a perfect being
⬇ The moment before he was discarded by Madara, Obito feigned the "Samsara of Heavenly Life" and formed the seals for the "Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal".
This technique let's the user possess the power of a jinchuriki by taking in the ten bodies of all tailed beasts. However, with one body already being hard to control, it's almost impossible to bring them all under one's control. This inevitably results in the collapse of the user's ego. However, very rarely, only one person that possessed innate suitability and acquired mental strength, is allowed to wield a world-shaking power, feared even as the "Nation-Building God"!
➡ Condensed and drawn into the body of the technique's user, the gathered tailed beasts make the true power bloom.
⬆ Obtaining the power of the ten bodies of the tailed beasts is the same as owning the power of the Sage of Six Paths. It's also accompanied by black orbs that are similar to the "Tailed Beast Ball".
So after everything, I think is safe to say that he still possess the SPSM but for some reason is not using the other Bijuu's Chakra.
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#6
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@batmanplusjay ^^^^ Thoughts ?
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#7
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BatmanPlusJay
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@joviolma: I agree. He doesn't even communicate with the other bijuu, when Momoshiki damn near killed killer bee and the 8 tails, Naruto was completely unaware. But he has the eyes, and he flies. Those two things alone confirm he has spsm. And he has the other bijuu chakra as you proved, he just doesn't keep in contact often.
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#8
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@joviolma: wow thnx for the informative
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#9
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Why wouldn't he?
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#10
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I would assume so
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This used to be a debatable question, but at this age a simple Google search for this question will tell you that THIS is Six Paths Sage Mode, "+" sign without pigmentation, and Adult Naruto managed to reproduce this in Boruto.
But I'm going to present you some alternative theory that might change things altogether.
What is Six Paths Sage Mode??
To answer the question, we first have to determine what is SPSM. To do that, I'll have to go through the characteristics of the previous forms so that we wouldn't get confused, all of which could be classified into two main types: 1. Chakra Mode (and corresponding Tailed Beast avatar); and 2. Sage Mode.
1. Chakra Mode
Chakra Mode, as evident from what we've seen to now, is any mode that covers the body or part of the body (such as arm) with some form of chakra. Other than Naruto, Toneri is the other canon example with such a form.
1.1 Initial Jinchuriki Form (KCM0)
Naruto's first forms involves red slitted pupils where he only had a relatively thin layer of translucent chakra shroud, something of a KCM0 if you would. It is useful in his last fight against Sasuke, only a small amount of chakra is needed to create a layer of chakra to block Sasuke's Amaterasu.
Naruto can't manifest a full Kyuubi avatar in this form, but the corresponding version of the avatar can be seen when it was being extracted from Kushina.
And for the record, the Kurama manifestations you see are avatars, and tailed beasts transformations like 8-tails are Bijuu Mode, not chakra modes.
Also, this category only applies for V1 as V2 is not really a chakra mode.
1.2 Kyuubi Chakra Mode (KCM1)
Fan-dubbed KCM1, this form is seen on both Naruto and Minato, with solid orange chakra but retains their pupils unlike KCM0 and KCM2. Instead of having red eyes that matches Kurama's, he has orange eyes that matches with the beast's chakra colour.
At this point, Naruto was still unable to manifest the full Bijuu Avatar.
1.2 Kurama Chakra Mode (KCM2)
1.2.1 Kurama Chakra Cloak (KCM2.5)
Naruto gains Kurama's cooperation, thicker whisker marks and back to slitted pupils again. It is also called Kurama Link Mode in Ultimate Ninja Storm 4.
Some also refer to a powered-up version as Kurama Chakra Cloak or simply Kurama Cloak, though most are never too bothered to make the distinction.
This form has its corresponding full-fledged Avatar made out of the same colour chakra. Also, Ashura Kurama Mode is technically not a "mode". Naruto was still in KCM2 but just conjured a different avatar.
Although some (Naruto included) call this form simply as "Kurama Mode", to avoid confusion I still prefer to specify it as a chakra mode as well, because Naruto is still capable of turning into this form which also has the same appearance changes but without the yellow chakra
The combination of Kurama (non-Chakra) Mode and Sage Mode is also shown below, called Kurama Sage Mode.
2. Sage Mode
We are not unfamiliar with this as there's quite a few Sage Mode users in Naruto. Mitsuki's Sage Mode is so shiny, it almost seem like a chakra mode as well.
2.1 Sage Mode (regular)
Naruto's Sage Mode involves the pupil of a toad and orange pigmentation around his eyes.
2.2 Six Paths Sage Mode
For the longest time we have accepted that this is Six Paths Sage Mode: "+" pupils in yellow eyes without pigmentation around. The yellow eyes make sense since it comes from the regular Sage Mode, but why does this mode seem to have fox slitted pupils, even though he is not in Kurama Sage Mode? Either
1. This is not just Six Paths Sage Mode. It is also mixed with Kurama Mode. (not Kurama Chakra Mode)
2. Six Paths Sage Mode itself coincidentally also contains a slit.
I think the more logical answer is option 2. Even though it looks almost exactly the same as Kurama Sage Mode (not in chakra mode) except for the lack of pigmentation, the slit of Kurama is thicker at the centre but thinner at the side, whereas the one from SPSM is equally thin throughout.
This creates more ambiguity when Naruto combines his Kurama Chakra Mode with Sage Mode which his eyes turn orange, but when combined with Six Paths Sage Mode, his eyes remained yellow, and the slit remained thin as it was in base form.
Things become more confusing when you realise that only when he activate his chakra cloak, then the "Six Paths Senjutsu" swirling logo (also seen on the back of Juubi Jinchurikis and Hagoromo's forehead) appears and he can manifest truth-seeking orbs. So is this the real Six Paths Sage Mode?
Does Adult Naruto Really Still Have Six Paths Sage Mode
So despite him having no pigmentation in Kurama Sage Mode, he no longer has the Six Paths Senjutsu logo on his back (nor anywhere else), no Truth Seeking Orbs, no Six Paths Yang Seal, his eyes are orange rather than yellow. There's no way to know whether he has precognition since there are no Limbo Clones. Basically there's no real defining trait that we can use to say for sure that this is Six Paths Sage Mode.
Being able to levitate was once a unique ability to Six Paths Sage Mode. However in Naruto: The Last movie he was able to fly in just Kurama Sage Mode. So despite Adult Naruto being able to fly, it doesn't help in the proof.
Another argument is that Six Paths Sage Mode is defined by whether you have the Six Paths Yang Seal. Even though he still seem to retain all his powers like truth seeking orbs for his final fight against Sasuke, that can also be seen as residual chakra.
Another argument is that since Sasuke retains his Rinnegan, there is no reason Naruto don't retain his Six Paths powers. However the Rinnegan is an physical organ that may not need Six Paths chakra to perform. While you can awaken Rinnegan by obtaining what's known as Six Paths chakra, it is not the only way. The concept of Rinnegan comes way before the concept of Six Paths itself, so it is a much broader concept.
Moral of the Story
You realise that all the previous points only says why Naruto can have no Six Paths chakra, but not why he doesn't have. I still believe that he has Six Paths chakra, but the moral of the story is that Narutoverse is one of the most well-established "Hard Magic System" in fiction. There are too many rules to keep track of, and one can have a completely different set of understanding from another. Always challenge your assumptions, even those that seem blatantly obvious to you at first.
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#1
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BatmanPlusJay
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He has six paths sage mode.
1) It's not a bottle of cologne you spray on and it wears off over time. That's just not how did paths sage mode works.
2) You're saying Kishimoto let Sasuke keep his rinnegan and told Naruto "Ey bro, I want my shit back" after Naruto and Sasuke fought? Nowhere in any novel or manga does it state or suggest Naruto's ever lost his six paths power, and yes that mode Naruto was in in the Momoshiki arc is six paths sage mode and you could tell because or the eyes.
3) Naruto was able to touch Toneri's TSB without dying.
Why do people assume Naruto just magically loses things just because they haven't seen it? You don't just assume something is magically lost over time because logic when nothing in the story suggest it's lost except it's absence. The TSB comes with six paths sage mode, but they're not six paths sage mode themselves so it's irrelevant whether they're present or not. The seal is simply a seal, a gift from Hagoromo to take down Kaguya, no correlation to spsm whatsoever.
The answer is much simpler than you're trying to make it. His eyes show he still has six paths sage mode, Naruto flies several times in the Boruto anime and in The Last and yet people are still questioning whether he has the mode or not. It makes no sense.
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#2
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Revold
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@batmanplusjay said:
He has six paths sage mode.
1) It's not a bottle of cologne you spray on and it wears off over time. That's just not how did paths sage mode works.
Reason why I went through all the forms is to properly define all the various characteristics by their correct terminology so as to isolate what exactly makes Six Paths Sage Mode different, especially from regular Sage Mode. The only apparent difference here is what's called "Six Paths Chakra", and we know that chakra depletes and can run out overtime. Whether Hagoromo's gift actually affects Naruto's soul such that it is able to reproduce this chakra is debatable, and until now I have not found concrete evidence to support such claim.
2) You're saying Kishimoto let Sasuke keep his rinnegan and told Naruto "Ey bro, I want my shit back" after Naruto and Sasuke fought? Nowhere in any novel or manga does it state or suggest Naruto's ever lost his six paths power, and yes that mode Naruto was in in the Momoshiki arc is six paths sage mode and you could tell because or the eyes.
Appeal to author's intention is not really a fair logical deduction that can rightfully justify a claim like this. And yes the eyes are probably the only sign of evidence, but going back to my OP, we can't even say for sure if that is what defines SPSM. If so, why is his Senjutsu sign and TSB only appear when he activate his chakra mode? This problem is more apparent when you consider that Hagoromo do not have to be Jinchuriki of anything to materialise his Senjutsu sign on his forehead and one TSB (his Six Paths staff) in just base form.
3) Naruto was able to touch Toneri's TSB without dying.
Well TSB doesn't always instantly deteriorate anything it touches. We see Sasuke standing on Naruto's TSB with no problems, and Madara's TSB touched Minato's back without even leaving holes in his shirt. From what I can tell it depends on the user's conscious will and power at the time, which makes it a very unreliable point to argue.
Why do people assume Naruto just magically loses things just because they haven't seen it? You don't just assume something is magically lost over time because logic when nothing in the story suggest it's lost except it's absence.
Well I didn't assume anything. The whole point of this entire post is to encourage people to challenge their preconceived assumptions, and that things can often go both ways. There are many things to suggest that he has/has not lost it, but none of them proves it.
The TSB comes with six paths sage mode, but they're not six paths sage mode themselves so it's irrelevant whether they're present or not. The seal is simply a seal, a gift from Hagoromo to take down Kaguya, no correlation to spsm whatsoever.
Truth seeking orbs requires different chakra natures from tailed beasts and six paths senjutsu to produce. I'm not saying that just because it disappears, he no longer has SPSM. I'm saying that because it disappears, there's one less reason to believe that he has.
The seal is literally called Six Paths Yang Seal. If he still has the Six Paths powers, then that might be a reason to believe that he has Six Paths chakra, which might very well mean that he has Six Paths Sage Mode.
The answer is much simpler than you're trying to make it. His eyes show he still has six paths sage mode, Naruto flies several times in the Boruto anime and in The Last and yet people are still questioning whether he has the mode or not. It makes no sense.
I've addressed the eyes above, and also the flying part in my OP. The whole reason why I created this post is that while we claim that it doesn't make sense, we can't find a concrete evidence to proof so. All the evidences we find can be interpreted otherwise, and to prove anything at this point requires me to go through almost everything else as well.
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#3
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Streak619
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It's the eye pigments. None of what you said really debunks it. You made an assumption that the vertical slits were inherently part of the mode. And despite having clear distincyions in the slits between KCSM and RKCM, you call it confusing and ambiguous.
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#4
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Revold
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@streak619 said:
It's the eye pigments. None of what you said really debunks it. You made an assumption that the vertical slits were inherently part of the mode. And despite having clear distincyions in the slits between KCSM and RKCM, you call it confusing and ambiguous.
No no no no no wait what?
I'm not debunking. I'm opening up the possibility. It's a "why not" situation.
Nono that's not an assumption. That's a thought experiment. Reason is because it doesn't make logical sense that Six Paths Sage Mode (no Kurama chakra or anything to do with Kurama Mode) shares the same characteristics (slitted eyes) as Kurama Mode. Again if you don't want to consider my "assumption", I'm happy to hear your explanation on that.
Now I'm confused. You claim that there's clear distinctions in the slits, yet you disagree that the vertical slit in SPSM is independent of the one on KCSM (since it is not inherently part of the mode, it is dependent on something else then????)
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#5
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JOVIOLMA
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According to Shikamaru's Light Novel he likely still can use it.
The Nine Tails was still living inside Naruto. There were also remnants of the other 8 bijuu inside him as well. In that way, you could say he was a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails. In the last war, Obito had become a human pillar for the Ten Tails and gained chakra rivalling that of the Sage of the Six Paths. Naruto, who’d taken the bijuu into him as well, had some of the Sage’s power even now.
According to the Fourth Databook, the Six Paths Sage Mode is something that is give directly from Hagoromo, so is kind of unlikely that he would lost his Transformation for no reason, Sasuke's Rinnegan also comes from Hagoromo and he still having it until today.
Six Paths Sage Mode
Ninjutsu, Senjutsu - Sage of Six Paths Mode
No rank, no range, offensive, defensive, supplementary
Users: Naruto Uzumaki
⬅ The floating ability used by the Sage of Six Paths is also almost mastered unconsciously by this technique's user.
From the ancestor of shinobi, a divine state is gifted, touching the principles of all creation, commanding all things in nature
The qualities for obtaining this technique are strict studying and using a small gist in chakra kneading sensibility. An iron faith to face any hardship and the guts to never give up. Furthermore, the returning incarnation and fate's guidance ― this power is granted by the Sage of Six Paths only to someone who holds those. Those who activate the technique come to understand the flow of all life, gain a deep insight at the world's origins and are able to apply it on interacting allies without changing the way of things. This technique isn't something shinobi choose to experience. It is a technique that chooses shinobi.
➡ Kicking the "Truth-Seeking Ball"! Exceeding the Kurama Mode, a feat accomplished by a huge chakra.
⬅The reaction speed is not less than equal to Madara, who had turned into the Ten-Tails' jinchuriki. The sensing ability has also risen!!
The Second Caption says
➡ Kicking the "Truth-Seeking Ball"! Exceeding the Kurama Mode, a feat accomplished by a huge chakra.
Which means one thing, Naruto was already in SPSM even before use his cloak, so we can say that this mode:
Is Six Paths Sage Mode as well but is lacking the chakra cloak.
So when Naruto was fighting against Momo he was indeed using his Six Paths Sage Mode since his eyes were lacking the red pigmentation around, and yes, we already saw Naruto using his Red Pigmentation(Normal Sage Mode) as Hokage.
The only different thing is that Naruto is lacking the Magatamas behind his Cloak, the only thing that I can think is that Naruto is only using Kurama's Yin Yang Chakra instead of use the other Bijuu's Chakra in conjuction, in Shikamaru's Light Novel he was said to be a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails similar to Juubito which would explain why he had the Truth Seeking Orbs and the Magatamas.
So when can say that the Magatamas behind his back were only present because he was a kind of a Juubi Jinchuuriki but he was using just small fragments from the Bijuu's Chakra and with Hagoromo's Chakra he managed to kind of transform this into a mode(Combining Kurama Mode + 8 Bijuu's Small chakra fragments) without necessarily become a Jinchuuriki since we already know that he had the Bijuu's Chakra and was only lacking Shukaku and Gyuki's Chakra.
So to elaborate, Naruto in the War was using the same mode that he used against Momo and Shin, the only difference is that he was using the other Bijuu's Chakra in conjuction, which would explain why his cloak possess a Rinnegan and the Magatamas just like the Juubi Jinchuuriki.
The Databook also says that when someone becomes a Juubi Jinchuuriki they manifest Truth Seeking Orbs.
Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai - Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal
No rank, no range, supplementary
Users: Obito Uchiha, Madara Uchiha
Using one's own body as a yorishiro
Not sublimating into a perfect being
⬇ The moment before he was discarded by Madara, Obito feigned the "Samsara of Heavenly Life" and formed the seals for the "Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal".
This technique let's the user possess the power of a jinchuriki by taking in the ten bodies of all tailed beasts. However, with one body already being hard to control, it's almost impossible to bring them all under one's control. This inevitably results in the collapse of the user's ego. However, very rarely, only one person that possessed innate suitability and acquired mental strength, is allowed to wield a world-shaking power, feared even as the "Nation-Building God"!
➡ Condensed and drawn into the body of the technique's user, the gathered tailed beasts make the true power bloom.
⬆ Obtaining the power of the ten bodies of the tailed beasts is the same as owning the power of the Sage of Six Paths. It's also accompanied by black orbs that are similar to the "Tailed Beast Ball".
So after everything, I think is safe to say that he still possess the SPSM but for some reason is not using the other Bijuu's Chakra.
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#6
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JOVIOLMA
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@batmanplusjay ^^^^ Thoughts ?
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#7
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BatmanPlusJay
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@joviolma: I agree. He doesn't even communicate with the other bijuu, when Momoshiki damn near killed killer bee and the 8 tails, Naruto was completely unaware. But he has the eyes, and he flies. Those two things alone confirm he has spsm. And he has the other bijuu chakra as you proved, he just doesn't keep in contact often.
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#8
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Grinningf0x
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@joviolma: wow thnx for the informative
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#9
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ValorKnight
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Why wouldn't he?
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#10
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AlexTheBoss
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I would assume so
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Revold
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This used to be a debatable question, but at this age a simple Google search for this question will tell you that THIS is Six Paths Sage Mode, "+" sign without pigmentation, and Adult Naruto managed to reproduce this in Boruto.
But I'm going to present you some alternative theory that might change things altogether.
What is Six Paths Sage Mode??
To answer the question, we first have to determine what is SPSM. To do that, I'll have to go through the characteristics of the previous forms so that we wouldn't get confused, all of which could be classified into two main types: 1. Chakra Mode (and corresponding Tailed Beast avatar); and 2. Sage Mode.
1. Chakra Mode
Chakra Mode, as evident from what we've seen to now, is any mode that covers the body or part of the body (such as arm) with some form of chakra. Other than Naruto, Toneri is the other canon example with such a form.
1.1 Initial Jinchuriki Form (KCM0)
Naruto's first forms involves red slitted pupils where he only had a relatively thin layer of translucent chakra shroud, something of a KCM0 if you would. It is useful in his last fight against Sasuke, only a small amount of chakra is needed to create a layer of chakra to block Sasuke's Amaterasu.
Naruto can't manifest a full Kyuubi avatar in this form, but the corresponding version of the avatar can be seen when it was being extracted from Kushina.
And for the record, the Kurama manifestations you see are avatars, and tailed beasts transformations like 8-tails are Bijuu Mode, not chakra modes.
Also, this category only applies for V1 as V2 is not really a chakra mode.
1.2 Kyuubi Chakra Mode (KCM1)
Fan-dubbed KCM1, this form is seen on both Naruto and Minato, with solid orange chakra but retains their pupils unlike KCM0 and KCM2. Instead of having red eyes that matches Kurama's, he has orange eyes that matches with the beast's chakra colour.
At this point, Naruto was still unable to manifest the full Bijuu Avatar.
1.2 Kurama Chakra Mode (KCM2)
1.2.1 Kurama Chakra Cloak (KCM2.5)
Naruto gains Kurama's cooperation, thicker whisker marks and back to slitted pupils again. It is also called Kurama Link Mode in Ultimate Ninja Storm 4.
Some also refer to a powered-up version as Kurama Chakra Cloak or simply Kurama Cloak, though most are never too bothered to make the distinction.
This form has its corresponding full-fledged Avatar made out of the same colour chakra. Also, Ashura Kurama Mode is technically not a "mode". Naruto was still in KCM2 but just conjured a different avatar.
Although some (Naruto included) call this form simply as "Kurama Mode", to avoid confusion I still prefer to specify it as a chakra mode as well, because Naruto is still capable of turning into this form which also has the same appearance changes but without the yellow chakra
The combination of Kurama (non-Chakra) Mode and Sage Mode is also shown below, called Kurama Sage Mode.
2. Sage Mode
We are not unfamiliar with this as there's quite a few Sage Mode users in Naruto. Mitsuki's Sage Mode is so shiny, it almost seem like a chakra mode as well.
2.1 Sage Mode (regular)
Naruto's Sage Mode involves the pupil of a toad and orange pigmentation around his eyes.
2.2 Six Paths Sage Mode
For the longest time we have accepted that this is Six Paths Sage Mode: "+" pupils in yellow eyes without pigmentation around. The yellow eyes make sense since it comes from the regular Sage Mode, but why does this mode seem to have fox slitted pupils, even though he is not in Kurama Sage Mode? Either
1. This is not just Six Paths Sage Mode. It is also mixed with Kurama Mode. (not Kurama Chakra Mode)
2. Six Paths Sage Mode itself coincidentally also contains a slit.
I think the more logical answer is option 2. Even though it looks almost exactly the same as Kurama Sage Mode (not in chakra mode) except for the lack of pigmentation, the slit of Kurama is thicker at the centre but thinner at the side, whereas the one from SPSM is equally thin throughout.
This creates more ambiguity when Naruto combines his Kurama Chakra Mode with Sage Mode which his eyes turn orange, but when combined with Six Paths Sage Mode, his eyes remained yellow, and the slit remained thin as it was in base form.
Things become more confusing when you realise that only when he activate his chakra cloak, then the "Six Paths Senjutsu" swirling logo (also seen on the back of Juubi Jinchurikis and Hagoromo's forehead) appears and he can manifest truth-seeking orbs. So is this the real Six Paths Sage Mode?
Does Adult Naruto Really Still Have Six Paths Sage Mode
So despite him having no pigmentation in Kurama Sage Mode, he no longer has the Six Paths Senjutsu logo on his back (nor anywhere else), no Truth Seeking Orbs, no Six Paths Yang Seal, his eyes are orange rather than yellow. There's no way to know whether he has precognition since there are no Limbo Clones. Basically there's no real defining trait that we can use to say for sure that this is Six Paths Sage Mode.
Being able to levitate was once a unique ability to Six Paths Sage Mode. However in Naruto: The Last movie he was able to fly in just Kurama Sage Mode. So despite Adult Naruto being able to fly, it doesn't help in the proof.
Another argument is that Six Paths Sage Mode is defined by whether you have the Six Paths Yang Seal. Even though he still seem to retain all his powers like truth seeking orbs for his final fight against Sasuke, that can also be seen as residual chakra.
Another argument is that since Sasuke retains his Rinnegan, there is no reason Naruto don't retain his Six Paths powers. However the Rinnegan is an physical organ that may not need Six Paths chakra to perform. While you can awaken Rinnegan by obtaining what's known as Six Paths chakra, it is not the only way. The concept of Rinnegan comes way before the concept of Six Paths itself, so it is a much broader concept.
Moral of the Story
You realise that all the previous points only says why Naruto can have no Six Paths chakra, but not why he doesn't have. I still believe that he has Six Paths chakra, but the moral of the story is that Narutoverse is one of the most well-established "Hard Magic System" in fiction. There are too many rules to keep track of, and one can have a completely different set of understanding from another. Always challenge your assumptions, even those that seem blatantly obvious to you at first.
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#1
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BatmanPlusJay
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He has six paths sage mode.
1) It's not a bottle of cologne you spray on and it wears off over time. That's just not how did paths sage mode works.
2) You're saying Kishimoto let Sasuke keep his rinnegan and told Naruto "Ey bro, I want my shit back" after Naruto and Sasuke fought? Nowhere in any novel or manga does it state or suggest Naruto's ever lost his six paths power, and yes that mode Naruto was in in the Momoshiki arc is six paths sage mode and you could tell because or the eyes.
3) Naruto was able to touch Toneri's TSB without dying.
Why do people assume Naruto just magically loses things just because they haven't seen it? You don't just assume something is magically lost over time because logic when nothing in the story suggest it's lost except it's absence. The TSB comes with six paths sage mode, but they're not six paths sage mode themselves so it's irrelevant whether they're present or not. The seal is simply a seal, a gift from Hagoromo to take down Kaguya, no correlation to spsm whatsoever.
The answer is much simpler than you're trying to make it. His eyes show he still has six paths sage mode, Naruto flies several times in the Boruto anime and in The Last and yet people are still questioning whether he has the mode or not. It makes no sense.
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#2
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Revold
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@batmanplusjay said:
He has six paths sage mode.
1) It's not a bottle of cologne you spray on and it wears off over time. That's just not how did paths sage mode works.
Reason why I went through all the forms is to properly define all the various characteristics by their correct terminology so as to isolate what exactly makes Six Paths Sage Mode different, especially from regular Sage Mode. The only apparent difference here is what's called "Six Paths Chakra", and we know that chakra depletes and can run out overtime. Whether Hagoromo's gift actually affects Naruto's soul such that it is able to reproduce this chakra is debatable, and until now I have not found concrete evidence to support such claim.
2) You're saying Kishimoto let Sasuke keep his rinnegan and told Naruto "Ey bro, I want my shit back" after Naruto and Sasuke fought? Nowhere in any novel or manga does it state or suggest Naruto's ever lost his six paths power, and yes that mode Naruto was in in the Momoshiki arc is six paths sage mode and you could tell because or the eyes.
Appeal to author's intention is not really a fair logical deduction that can rightfully justify a claim like this. And yes the eyes are probably the only sign of evidence, but going back to my OP, we can't even say for sure if that is what defines SPSM. If so, why is his Senjutsu sign and TSB only appear when he activate his chakra mode? This problem is more apparent when you consider that Hagoromo do not have to be Jinchuriki of anything to materialise his Senjutsu sign on his forehead and one TSB (his Six Paths staff) in just base form.
3) Naruto was able to touch Toneri's TSB without dying.
Well TSB doesn't always instantly deteriorate anything it touches. We see Sasuke standing on Naruto's TSB with no problems, and Madara's TSB touched Minato's back without even leaving holes in his shirt. From what I can tell it depends on the user's conscious will and power at the time, which makes it a very unreliable point to argue.
Why do people assume Naruto just magically loses things just because they haven't seen it? You don't just assume something is magically lost over time because logic when nothing in the story suggest it's lost except it's absence.
Well I didn't assume anything. The whole point of this entire post is to encourage people to challenge their preconceived assumptions, and that things can often go both ways. There are many things to suggest that he has/has not lost it, but none of them proves it.
The TSB comes with six paths sage mode, but they're not six paths sage mode themselves so it's irrelevant whether they're present or not. The seal is simply a seal, a gift from Hagoromo to take down Kaguya, no correlation to spsm whatsoever.
Truth seeking orbs requires different chakra natures from tailed beasts and six paths senjutsu to produce. I'm not saying that just because it disappears, he no longer has SPSM. I'm saying that because it disappears, there's one less reason to believe that he has.
The seal is literally called Six Paths Yang Seal. If he still has the Six Paths powers, then that might be a reason to believe that he has Six Paths chakra, which might very well mean that he has Six Paths Sage Mode.
The answer is much simpler than you're trying to make it. His eyes show he still has six paths sage mode, Naruto flies several times in the Boruto anime and in The Last and yet people are still questioning whether he has the mode or not. It makes no sense.
I've addressed the eyes above, and also the flying part in my OP. The whole reason why I created this post is that while we claim that it doesn't make sense, we can't find a concrete evidence to proof so. All the evidences we find can be interpreted otherwise, and to prove anything at this point requires me to go through almost everything else as well.
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#3
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Streak619
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It's the eye pigments. None of what you said really debunks it. You made an assumption that the vertical slits were inherently part of the mode. And despite having clear distincyions in the slits between KCSM and RKCM, you call it confusing and ambiguous.
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#4
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Revold
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@streak619 said:
It's the eye pigments. None of what you said really debunks it. You made an assumption that the vertical slits were inherently part of the mode. And despite having clear distincyions in the slits between KCSM and RKCM, you call it confusing and ambiguous.
No no no no no wait what?
I'm not debunking. I'm opening up the possibility. It's a "why not" situation.
Nono that's not an assumption. That's a thought experiment. Reason is because it doesn't make logical sense that Six Paths Sage Mode (no Kurama chakra or anything to do with Kurama Mode) shares the same characteristics (slitted eyes) as Kurama Mode. Again if you don't want to consider my "assumption", I'm happy to hear your explanation on that.
Now I'm confused. You claim that there's clear distinctions in the slits, yet you disagree that the vertical slit in SPSM is independent of the one on KCSM (since it is not inherently part of the mode, it is dependent on something else then????)
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#5
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JOVIOLMA
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According to Shikamaru's Light Novel he likely still can use it.
The Nine Tails was still living inside Naruto. There were also remnants of the other 8 bijuu inside him as well. In that way, you could say he was a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails. In the last war, Obito had become a human pillar for the Ten Tails and gained chakra rivalling that of the Sage of the Six Paths. Naruto, who’d taken the bijuu into him as well, had some of the Sage’s power even now.
According to the Fourth Databook, the Six Paths Sage Mode is something that is give directly from Hagoromo, so is kind of unlikely that he would lost his Transformation for no reason, Sasuke's Rinnegan also comes from Hagoromo and he still having it until today.
Six Paths Sage Mode
Ninjutsu, Senjutsu - Sage of Six Paths Mode
No rank, no range, offensive, defensive, supplementary
Users: Naruto Uzumaki
⬅ The floating ability used by the Sage of Six Paths is also almost mastered unconsciously by this technique's user.
From the ancestor of shinobi, a divine state is gifted, touching the principles of all creation, commanding all things in nature
The qualities for obtaining this technique are strict studying and using a small gist in chakra kneading sensibility. An iron faith to face any hardship and the guts to never give up. Furthermore, the returning incarnation and fate's guidance ― this power is granted by the Sage of Six Paths only to someone who holds those. Those who activate the technique come to understand the flow of all life, gain a deep insight at the world's origins and are able to apply it on interacting allies without changing the way of things. This technique isn't something shinobi choose to experience. It is a technique that chooses shinobi.
➡ Kicking the "Truth-Seeking Ball"! Exceeding the Kurama Mode, a feat accomplished by a huge chakra.
⬅The reaction speed is not less than equal to Madara, who had turned into the Ten-Tails' jinchuriki. The sensing ability has also risen!!
The Second Caption says
➡ Kicking the "Truth-Seeking Ball"! Exceeding the Kurama Mode, a feat accomplished by a huge chakra.
Which means one thing, Naruto was already in SPSM even before use his cloak, so we can say that this mode:
Is Six Paths Sage Mode as well but is lacking the chakra cloak.
So when Naruto was fighting against Momo he was indeed using his Six Paths Sage Mode since his eyes were lacking the red pigmentation around, and yes, we already saw Naruto using his Red Pigmentation(Normal Sage Mode) as Hokage.
The only different thing is that Naruto is lacking the Magatamas behind his Cloak, the only thing that I can think is that Naruto is only using Kurama's Yin Yang Chakra instead of use the other Bijuu's Chakra in conjuction, in Shikamaru's Light Novel he was said to be a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails similar to Juubito which would explain why he had the Truth Seeking Orbs and the Magatamas.
So when can say that the Magatamas behind his back were only present because he was a kind of a Juubi Jinchuuriki but he was using just small fragments from the Bijuu's Chakra and with Hagoromo's Chakra he managed to kind of transform this into a mode(Combining Kurama Mode + 8 Bijuu's Small chakra fragments) without necessarily become a Jinchuuriki since we already know that he had the Bijuu's Chakra and was only lacking Shukaku and Gyuki's Chakra.
So to elaborate, Naruto in the War was using the same mode that he used against Momo and Shin, the only difference is that he was using the other Bijuu's Chakra in conjuction, which would explain why his cloak possess a Rinnegan and the Magatamas just like the Juubi Jinchuuriki.
The Databook also says that when someone becomes a Juubi Jinchuuriki they manifest Truth Seeking Orbs.
Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai - Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal
No rank, no range, supplementary
Users: Obito Uchiha, Madara Uchiha
Using one's own body as a yorishiro
Not sublimating into a perfect being
⬇ The moment before he was discarded by Madara, Obito feigned the "Samsara of Heavenly Life" and formed the seals for the "Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal".
This technique let's the user possess the power of a jinchuriki by taking in the ten bodies of all tailed beasts. However, with one body already being hard to control, it's almost impossible to bring them all under one's control. This inevitably results in the collapse of the user's ego. However, very rarely, only one person that possessed innate suitability and acquired mental strength, is allowed to wield a world-shaking power, feared even as the "Nation-Building God"!
➡ Condensed and drawn into the body of the technique's user, the gathered tailed beasts make the true power bloom.
⬆ Obtaining the power of the ten bodies of the tailed beasts is the same as owning the power of the Sage of Six Paths. It's also accompanied by black orbs that are similar to the "Tailed Beast Ball".
So after everything, I think is safe to say that he still possess the SPSM but for some reason is not using the other Bijuu's Chakra.
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#6
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JOVIOLMA
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@batmanplusjay ^^^^ Thoughts ?
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#7
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BatmanPlusJay
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@joviolma: I agree. He doesn't even communicate with the other bijuu, when Momoshiki damn near killed killer bee and the 8 tails, Naruto was completely unaware. But he has the eyes, and he flies. Those two things alone confirm he has spsm. And he has the other bijuu chakra as you proved, he just doesn't keep in contact often.
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#8
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Grinningf0x
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@joviolma: wow thnx for the informative
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#9
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ValorKnight
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Why wouldn't he?
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#10
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AlexTheBoss
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I would assume so
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This used to be a debatable question, but at this age a simple Google search for this question will tell you that THIS is Six Paths Sage Mode, "+" sign without pigmentation, and Adult Naruto managed to reproduce this in Boruto.
But I'm going to present you some alternative theory that might change things altogether.
What is Six Paths Sage Mode??
To answer the question, we first have to determine what is SPSM. To do that, I'll have to go through the characteristics of the previous forms so that we wouldn't get confused, all of which could be classified into two main types: 1. Chakra Mode (and corresponding Tailed Beast avatar); and 2. Sage Mode.
1. Chakra Mode
Chakra Mode, as evident from what we've seen to now, is any mode that covers the body or part of the body (such as arm) with some form of chakra. Other than Naruto, Toneri is the other canon example with such a form.
1.1 Initial Jinchuriki Form (KCM0)
Naruto's first forms involves red slitted pupils where he only had a relatively thin layer of translucent chakra shroud, something of a KCM0 if you would. It is useful in his last fight against Sasuke, only a small amount of chakra is needed to create a layer of chakra to block Sasuke's Amaterasu.
Naruto can't manifest a full Kyuubi avatar in this form, but the corresponding version of the avatar can be seen when it was being extracted from Kushina.
And for the record, the Kurama manifestations you see are avatars, and tailed beasts transformations like 8-tails are Bijuu Mode, not chakra modes.
Also, this category only applies for V1 as V2 is not really a chakra mode.
1.2 Kyuubi Chakra Mode (KCM1)
Fan-dubbed KCM1, this form is seen on both Naruto and Minato, with solid orange chakra but retains their pupils unlike KCM0 and KCM2. Instead of having red eyes that matches Kurama's, he has orange eyes that matches with the beast's chakra colour.
At this point, Naruto was still unable to manifest the full Bijuu Avatar.
1.2 Kurama Chakra Mode (KCM2)
1.2.1 Kurama Chakra Cloak (KCM2.5)
Naruto gains Kurama's cooperation, thicker whisker marks and back to slitted pupils again. It is also called Kurama Link Mode in Ultimate Ninja Storm 4.
Some also refer to a powered-up version as Kurama Chakra Cloak or simply Kurama Cloak, though most are never too bothered to make the distinction.
This form has its corresponding full-fledged Avatar made out of the same colour chakra. Also, Ashura Kurama Mode is technically not a "mode". Naruto was still in KCM2 but just conjured a different avatar.
Although some (Naruto included) call this form simply as "Kurama Mode", to avoid confusion I still prefer to specify it as a chakra mode as well, because Naruto is still capable of turning into this form which also has the same appearance changes but without the yellow chakra
The combination of Kurama (non-Chakra) Mode and Sage Mode is also shown below, called Kurama Sage Mode.
2. Sage Mode
We are not unfamiliar with this as there's quite a few Sage Mode users in Naruto. Mitsuki's Sage Mode is so shiny, it almost seem like a chakra mode as well.
2.1 Sage Mode (regular)
Naruto's Sage Mode involves the pupil of a toad and orange pigmentation around his eyes.
2.2 Six Paths Sage Mode
For the longest time we have accepted that this is Six Paths Sage Mode: "+" pupils in yellow eyes without pigmentation around. The yellow eyes make sense since it comes from the regular Sage Mode, but why does this mode seem to have fox slitted pupils, even though he is not in Kurama Sage Mode? Either
1. This is not just Six Paths Sage Mode. It is also mixed with Kurama Mode. (not Kurama Chakra Mode)
2. Six Paths Sage Mode itself coincidentally also contains a slit.
I think the more logical answer is option 2. Even though it looks almost exactly the same as Kurama Sage Mode (not in chakra mode) except for the lack of pigmentation, the slit of Kurama is thicker at the centre but thinner at the side, whereas the one from SPSM is equally thin throughout.
This creates more ambiguity when Naruto combines his Kurama Chakra Mode with Sage Mode which his eyes turn orange, but when combined with Six Paths Sage Mode, his eyes remained yellow, and the slit remained thin as it was in base form.
Things become more confusing when you realise that only when he activate his chakra cloak, then the "Six Paths Senjutsu" swirling logo (also seen on the back of Juubi Jinchurikis and Hagoromo's forehead) appears and he can manifest truth-seeking orbs. So is this the real Six Paths Sage Mode?
Does Adult Naruto Really Still Have Six Paths Sage Mode
So despite him having no pigmentation in Kurama Sage Mode, he no longer has the Six Paths Senjutsu logo on his back (nor anywhere else), no Truth Seeking Orbs, no Six Paths Yang Seal, his eyes are orange rather than yellow. There's no way to know whether he has precognition since there are no Limbo Clones. Basically there's no real defining trait that we can use to say for sure that this is Six Paths Sage Mode.
Being able to levitate was once a unique ability to Six Paths Sage Mode. However in Naruto: The Last movie he was able to fly in just Kurama Sage Mode. So despite Adult Naruto being able to fly, it doesn't help in the proof.
Another argument is that Six Paths Sage Mode is defined by whether you have the Six Paths Yang Seal. Even though he still seem to retain all his powers like truth seeking orbs for his final fight against Sasuke, that can also be seen as residual chakra.
Another argument is that since Sasuke retains his Rinnegan, there is no reason Naruto don't retain his Six Paths powers. However the Rinnegan is an physical organ that may not need Six Paths chakra to perform. While you can awaken Rinnegan by obtaining what's known as Six Paths chakra, it is not the only way. The concept of Rinnegan comes way before the concept of Six Paths itself, so it is a much broader concept.
Moral of the Story
You realise that all the previous points only says why Naruto can have no Six Paths chakra, but not why he doesn't have. I still believe that he has Six Paths chakra, but the moral of the story is that Narutoverse is one of the most well-established "Hard Magic System" in fiction. There are too many rules to keep track of, and one can have a completely different set of understanding from another. Always challenge your assumptions, even those that seem blatantly obvious to you at first.
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#1
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BatmanPlusJay
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He has six paths sage mode.
1) It's not a bottle of cologne you spray on and it wears off over time. That's just not how did paths sage mode works.
2) You're saying Kishimoto let Sasuke keep his rinnegan and told Naruto "Ey bro, I want my shit back" after Naruto and Sasuke fought? Nowhere in any novel or manga does it state or suggest Naruto's ever lost his six paths power, and yes that mode Naruto was in in the Momoshiki arc is six paths sage mode and you could tell because or the eyes.
3) Naruto was able to touch Toneri's TSB without dying.
Why do people assume Naruto just magically loses things just because they haven't seen it? You don't just assume something is magically lost over time because logic when nothing in the story suggest it's lost except it's absence. The TSB comes with six paths sage mode, but they're not six paths sage mode themselves so it's irrelevant whether they're present or not. The seal is simply a seal, a gift from Hagoromo to take down Kaguya, no correlation to spsm whatsoever.
The answer is much simpler than you're trying to make it. His eyes show he still has six paths sage mode, Naruto flies several times in the Boruto anime and in The Last and yet people are still questioning whether he has the mode or not. It makes no sense.
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#2
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Revold
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@batmanplusjay said:
He has six paths sage mode.
1) It's not a bottle of cologne you spray on and it wears off over time. That's just not how did paths sage mode works.
Reason why I went through all the forms is to properly define all the various characteristics by their correct terminology so as to isolate what exactly makes Six Paths Sage Mode different, especially from regular Sage Mode. The only apparent difference here is what's called "Six Paths Chakra", and we know that chakra depletes and can run out overtime. Whether Hagoromo's gift actually affects Naruto's soul such that it is able to reproduce this chakra is debatable, and until now I have not found concrete evidence to support such claim.
2) You're saying Kishimoto let Sasuke keep his rinnegan and told Naruto "Ey bro, I want my shit back" after Naruto and Sasuke fought? Nowhere in any novel or manga does it state or suggest Naruto's ever lost his six paths power, and yes that mode Naruto was in in the Momoshiki arc is six paths sage mode and you could tell because or the eyes.
Appeal to author's intention is not really a fair logical deduction that can rightfully justify a claim like this. And yes the eyes are probably the only sign of evidence, but going back to my OP, we can't even say for sure if that is what defines SPSM. If so, why is his Senjutsu sign and TSB only appear when he activate his chakra mode? This problem is more apparent when you consider that Hagoromo do not have to be Jinchuriki of anything to materialise his Senjutsu sign on his forehead and one TSB (his Six Paths staff) in just base form.
3) Naruto was able to touch Toneri's TSB without dying.
Well TSB doesn't always instantly deteriorate anything it touches. We see Sasuke standing on Naruto's TSB with no problems, and Madara's TSB touched Minato's back without even leaving holes in his shirt. From what I can tell it depends on the user's conscious will and power at the time, which makes it a very unreliable point to argue.
Why do people assume Naruto just magically loses things just because they haven't seen it? You don't just assume something is magically lost over time because logic when nothing in the story suggest it's lost except it's absence.
Well I didn't assume anything. The whole point of this entire post is to encourage people to challenge their preconceived assumptions, and that things can often go both ways. There are many things to suggest that he has/has not lost it, but none of them proves it.
The TSB comes with six paths sage mode, but they're not six paths sage mode themselves so it's irrelevant whether they're present or not. The seal is simply a seal, a gift from Hagoromo to take down Kaguya, no correlation to spsm whatsoever.
Truth seeking orbs requires different chakra natures from tailed beasts and six paths senjutsu to produce. I'm not saying that just because it disappears, he no longer has SPSM. I'm saying that because it disappears, there's one less reason to believe that he has.
The seal is literally called Six Paths Yang Seal. If he still has the Six Paths powers, then that might be a reason to believe that he has Six Paths chakra, which might very well mean that he has Six Paths Sage Mode.
The answer is much simpler than you're trying to make it. His eyes show he still has six paths sage mode, Naruto flies several times in the Boruto anime and in The Last and yet people are still questioning whether he has the mode or not. It makes no sense.
I've addressed the eyes above, and also the flying part in my OP. The whole reason why I created this post is that while we claim that it doesn't make sense, we can't find a concrete evidence to proof so. All the evidences we find can be interpreted otherwise, and to prove anything at this point requires me to go through almost everything else as well.
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#3
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Streak619
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It's the eye pigments. None of what you said really debunks it. You made an assumption that the vertical slits were inherently part of the mode. And despite having clear distincyions in the slits between KCSM and RKCM, you call it confusing and ambiguous.
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#4
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Revold
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@streak619 said:
It's the eye pigments. None of what you said really debunks it. You made an assumption that the vertical slits were inherently part of the mode. And despite having clear distincyions in the slits between KCSM and RKCM, you call it confusing and ambiguous.
No no no no no wait what?
I'm not debunking. I'm opening up the possibility. It's a "why not" situation.
Nono that's not an assumption. That's a thought experiment. Reason is because it doesn't make logical sense that Six Paths Sage Mode (no Kurama chakra or anything to do with Kurama Mode) shares the same characteristics (slitted eyes) as Kurama Mode. Again if you don't want to consider my "assumption", I'm happy to hear your explanation on that.
Now I'm confused. You claim that there's clear distinctions in the slits, yet you disagree that the vertical slit in SPSM is independent of the one on KCSM (since it is not inherently part of the mode, it is dependent on something else then????)
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#5
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JOVIOLMA
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According to Shikamaru's Light Novel he likely still can use it.
The Nine Tails was still living inside Naruto. There were also remnants of the other 8 bijuu inside him as well. In that way, you could say he was a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails. In the last war, Obito had become a human pillar for the Ten Tails and gained chakra rivalling that of the Sage of the Six Paths. Naruto, who’d taken the bijuu into him as well, had some of the Sage’s power even now.
According to the Fourth Databook, the Six Paths Sage Mode is something that is give directly from Hagoromo, so is kind of unlikely that he would lost his Transformation for no reason, Sasuke's Rinnegan also comes from Hagoromo and he still having it until today.
Six Paths Sage Mode
Ninjutsu, Senjutsu - Sage of Six Paths Mode
No rank, no range, offensive, defensive, supplementary
Users: Naruto Uzumaki
⬅ The floating ability used by the Sage of Six Paths is also almost mastered unconsciously by this technique's user.
From the ancestor of shinobi, a divine state is gifted, touching the principles of all creation, commanding all things in nature
The qualities for obtaining this technique are strict studying and using a small gist in chakra kneading sensibility. An iron faith to face any hardship and the guts to never give up. Furthermore, the returning incarnation and fate's guidance ― this power is granted by the Sage of Six Paths only to someone who holds those. Those who activate the technique come to understand the flow of all life, gain a deep insight at the world's origins and are able to apply it on interacting allies without changing the way of things. This technique isn't something shinobi choose to experience. It is a technique that chooses shinobi.
➡ Kicking the "Truth-Seeking Ball"! Exceeding the Kurama Mode, a feat accomplished by a huge chakra.
⬅The reaction speed is not less than equal to Madara, who had turned into the Ten-Tails' jinchuriki. The sensing ability has also risen!!
The Second Caption says
➡ Kicking the "Truth-Seeking Ball"! Exceeding the Kurama Mode, a feat accomplished by a huge chakra.
Which means one thing, Naruto was already in SPSM even before use his cloak, so we can say that this mode:
Is Six Paths Sage Mode as well but is lacking the chakra cloak.
So when Naruto was fighting against Momo he was indeed using his Six Paths Sage Mode since his eyes were lacking the red pigmentation around, and yes, we already saw Naruto using his Red Pigmentation(Normal Sage Mode) as Hokage.
The only different thing is that Naruto is lacking the Magatamas behind his Cloak, the only thing that I can think is that Naruto is only using Kurama's Yin Yang Chakra instead of use the other Bijuu's Chakra in conjuction, in Shikamaru's Light Novel he was said to be a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails similar to Juubito which would explain why he had the Truth Seeking Orbs and the Magatamas.
So when can say that the Magatamas behind his back were only present because he was a kind of a Juubi Jinchuuriki but he was using just small fragments from the Bijuu's Chakra and with Hagoromo's Chakra he managed to kind of transform this into a mode(Combining Kurama Mode + 8 Bijuu's Small chakra fragments) without necessarily become a Jinchuuriki since we already know that he had the Bijuu's Chakra and was only lacking Shukaku and Gyuki's Chakra.
So to elaborate, Naruto in the War was using the same mode that he used against Momo and Shin, the only difference is that he was using the other Bijuu's Chakra in conjuction, which would explain why his cloak possess a Rinnegan and the Magatamas just like the Juubi Jinchuuriki.
The Databook also says that when someone becomes a Juubi Jinchuuriki they manifest Truth Seeking Orbs.
Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai - Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal
No rank, no range, supplementary
Users: Obito Uchiha, Madara Uchiha
Using one's own body as a yorishiro
Not sublimating into a perfect being
⬇ The moment before he was discarded by Madara, Obito feigned the "Samsara of Heavenly Life" and formed the seals for the "Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal".
This technique let's the user possess the power of a jinchuriki by taking in the ten bodies of all tailed beasts. However, with one body already being hard to control, it's almost impossible to bring them all under one's control. This inevitably results in the collapse of the user's ego. However, very rarely, only one person that possessed innate suitability and acquired mental strength, is allowed to wield a world-shaking power, feared even as the "Nation-Building God"!
➡ Condensed and drawn into the body of the technique's user, the gathered tailed beasts make the true power bloom.
⬆ Obtaining the power of the ten bodies of the tailed beasts is the same as owning the power of the Sage of Six Paths. It's also accompanied by black orbs that are similar to the "Tailed Beast Ball".
So after everything, I think is safe to say that he still possess the SPSM but for some reason is not using the other Bijuu's Chakra.
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#6
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JOVIOLMA
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@batmanplusjay ^^^^ Thoughts ?
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#7
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BatmanPlusJay
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@joviolma: I agree. He doesn't even communicate with the other bijuu, when Momoshiki damn near killed killer bee and the 8 tails, Naruto was completely unaware. But he has the eyes, and he flies. Those two things alone confirm he has spsm. And he has the other bijuu chakra as you proved, he just doesn't keep in contact often.
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#8
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Grinningf0x
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@joviolma: wow thnx for the informative
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#9
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ValorKnight
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Why wouldn't he?
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#10
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AlexTheBoss
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I would assume so
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Posted by
Revold
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This used to be a debatable question, but at this age a simple Google search for this question will tell you that THIS is Six Paths Sage Mode, "+" sign without pigmentation, and Adult Naruto managed to reproduce this in Boruto.
But I'm going to present you some alternative theory that might change things altogether.
What is Six Paths Sage Mode??
To answer the question, we first have to determine what is SPSM. To do that, I'll have to go through the characteristics of the previous forms so that we wouldn't get confused, all of which could be classified into two main types: 1. Chakra Mode (and corresponding Tailed Beast avatar); and 2. Sage Mode.
1. Chakra Mode
Chakra Mode, as evident from what we've seen to now, is any mode that covers the body or part of the body (such as arm) with some form of chakra. Other than Naruto, Toneri is the other canon example with such a form.
1.1 Initial Jinchuriki Form (KCM0)
Naruto's first forms involves red slitted pupils where he only had a relatively thin layer of translucent chakra shroud, something of a KCM0 if you would. It is useful in his last fight against Sasuke, only a small amount of chakra is needed to create a layer of chakra to block Sasuke's Amaterasu.
Naruto can't manifest a full Kyuubi avatar in this form, but the corresponding version of the avatar can be seen when it was being extracted from Kushina.
And for the record, the Kurama manifestations you see are avatars, and tailed beasts transformations like 8-tails are Bijuu Mode, not chakra modes.
Also, this category only applies for V1 as V2 is not really a chakra mode.
1.2 Kyuubi Chakra Mode (KCM1)
Fan-dubbed KCM1, this form is seen on both Naruto and Minato, with solid orange chakra but retains their pupils unlike KCM0 and KCM2. Instead of having red eyes that matches Kurama's, he has orange eyes that matches with the beast's chakra colour.
At this point, Naruto was still unable to manifest the full Bijuu Avatar.
1.2 Kurama Chakra Mode (KCM2)
1.2.1 Kurama Chakra Cloak (KCM2.5)
Naruto gains Kurama's cooperation, thicker whisker marks and back to slitted pupils again. It is also called Kurama Link Mode in Ultimate Ninja Storm 4.
Some also refer to a powered-up version as Kurama Chakra Cloak or simply Kurama Cloak, though most are never too bothered to make the distinction.
This form has its corresponding full-fledged Avatar made out of the same colour chakra. Also, Ashura Kurama Mode is technically not a "mode". Naruto was still in KCM2 but just conjured a different avatar.
Although some (Naruto included) call this form simply as "Kurama Mode", to avoid confusion I still prefer to specify it as a chakra mode as well, because Naruto is still capable of turning into this form which also has the same appearance changes but without the yellow chakra
The combination of Kurama (non-Chakra) Mode and Sage Mode is also shown below, called Kurama Sage Mode.
2. Sage Mode
We are not unfamiliar with this as there's quite a few Sage Mode users in Naruto. Mitsuki's Sage Mode is so shiny, it almost seem like a chakra mode as well.
2.1 Sage Mode (regular)
Naruto's Sage Mode involves the pupil of a toad and orange pigmentation around his eyes.
2.2 Six Paths Sage Mode
For the longest time we have accepted that this is Six Paths Sage Mode: "+" pupils in yellow eyes without pigmentation around. The yellow eyes make sense since it comes from the regular Sage Mode, but why does this mode seem to have fox slitted pupils, even though he is not in Kurama Sage Mode? Either
1. This is not just Six Paths Sage Mode. It is also mixed with Kurama Mode. (not Kurama Chakra Mode)
2. Six Paths Sage Mode itself coincidentally also contains a slit.
I think the more logical answer is option 2. Even though it looks almost exactly the same as Kurama Sage Mode (not in chakra mode) except for the lack of pigmentation, the slit of Kurama is thicker at the centre but thinner at the side, whereas the one from SPSM is equally thin throughout.
This creates more ambiguity when Naruto combines his Kurama Chakra Mode with Sage Mode which his eyes turn orange, but when combined with Six Paths Sage Mode, his eyes remained yellow, and the slit remained thin as it was in base form.
Things become more confusing when you realise that only when he activate his chakra cloak, then the "Six Paths Senjutsu" swirling logo (also seen on the back of Juubi Jinchurikis and Hagoromo's forehead) appears and he can manifest truth-seeking orbs. So is this the real Six Paths Sage Mode?
Does Adult Naruto Really Still Have Six Paths Sage Mode
So despite him having no pigmentation in Kurama Sage Mode, he no longer has the Six Paths Senjutsu logo on his back (nor anywhere else), no Truth Seeking Orbs, no Six Paths Yang Seal, his eyes are orange rather than yellow. There's no way to know whether he has precognition since there are no Limbo Clones. Basically there's no real defining trait that we can use to say for sure that this is Six Paths Sage Mode.
Being able to levitate was once a unique ability to Six Paths Sage Mode. However in Naruto: The Last movie he was able to fly in just Kurama Sage Mode. So despite Adult Naruto being able to fly, it doesn't help in the proof.
Another argument is that Six Paths Sage Mode is defined by whether you have the Six Paths Yang Seal. Even though he still seem to retain all his powers like truth seeking orbs for his final fight against Sasuke, that can also be seen as residual chakra.
Another argument is that since Sasuke retains his Rinnegan, there is no reason Naruto don't retain his Six Paths powers. However the Rinnegan is an physical organ that may not need Six Paths chakra to perform. While you can awaken Rinnegan by obtaining what's known as Six Paths chakra, it is not the only way. The concept of Rinnegan comes way before the concept of Six Paths itself, so it is a much broader concept.
Moral of the Story
You realise that all the previous points only says why Naruto can have no Six Paths chakra, but not why he doesn't have. I still believe that he has Six Paths chakra, but the moral of the story is that Narutoverse is one of the most well-established "Hard Magic System" in fiction. There are too many rules to keep track of, and one can have a completely different set of understanding from another. Always challenge your assumptions, even those that seem blatantly obvious to you at first.
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Posted by
Revold
(440 posts)
- 1 month, 7 days ago
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This used to be a debatable question, but at this age a simple Google search for this question will tell you that THIS is Six Paths Sage Mode, "+" sign without pigmentation, and Adult Naruto managed to reproduce this in Boruto.
But I'm going to present you some alternative theory that might change things altogether.
What is Six Paths Sage Mode??
To answer the question, we first have to determine what is SPSM. To do that, I'll have to go through the characteristics of the previous forms so that we wouldn't get confused, all of which could be classified into two main types: 1. Chakra Mode (and corresponding Tailed Beast avatar); and 2. Sage Mode.
1. Chakra Mode
Chakra Mode, as evident from what we've seen to now, is any mode that covers the body or part of the body (such as arm) with some form of chakra. Other than Naruto, Toneri is the other canon example with such a form.
1.1 Initial Jinchuriki Form (KCM0)
Naruto's first forms involves red slitted pupils where he only had a relatively thin layer of translucent chakra shroud, something of a KCM0 if you would. It is useful in his last fight against Sasuke, only a small amount of chakra is needed to create a layer of chakra to block Sasuke's Amaterasu.
Naruto can't manifest a full Kyuubi avatar in this form, but the corresponding version of the avatar can be seen when it was being extracted from Kushina.
And for the record, the Kurama manifestations you see are avatars, and tailed beasts transformations like 8-tails are Bijuu Mode, not chakra modes.
Also, this category only applies for V1 as V2 is not really a chakra mode.
1.2 Kyuubi Chakra Mode (KCM1)
Fan-dubbed KCM1, this form is seen on both Naruto and Minato, with solid orange chakra but retains their pupils unlike KCM0 and KCM2. Instead of having red eyes that matches Kurama's, he has orange eyes that matches with the beast's chakra colour.
At this point, Naruto was still unable to manifest the full Bijuu Avatar.
1.2 Kurama Chakra Mode (KCM2)
1.2.1 Kurama Chakra Cloak (KCM2.5)
Naruto gains Kurama's cooperation, thicker whisker marks and back to slitted pupils again. It is also called Kurama Link Mode in Ultimate Ninja Storm 4.
Some also refer to a powered-up version as Kurama Chakra Cloak or simply Kurama Cloak, though most are never too bothered to make the distinction.
This form has its corresponding full-fledged Avatar made out of the same colour chakra. Also, Ashura Kurama Mode is technically not a "mode". Naruto was still in KCM2 but just conjured a different avatar.
Although some (Naruto included) call this form simply as "Kurama Mode", to avoid confusion I still prefer to specify it as a chakra mode as well, because Naruto is still capable of turning into this form which also has the same appearance changes but without the yellow chakra
The combination of Kurama (non-Chakra) Mode and Sage Mode is also shown below, called Kurama Sage Mode.
2. Sage Mode
We are not unfamiliar with this as there's quite a few Sage Mode users in Naruto. Mitsuki's Sage Mode is so shiny, it almost seem like a chakra mode as well.
2.1 Sage Mode (regular)
Naruto's Sage Mode involves the pupil of a toad and orange pigmentation around his eyes.
2.2 Six Paths Sage Mode
For the longest time we have accepted that this is Six Paths Sage Mode: "+" pupils in yellow eyes without pigmentation around. The yellow eyes make sense since it comes from the regular Sage Mode, but why does this mode seem to have fox slitted pupils, even though he is not in Kurama Sage Mode? Either
1. This is not just Six Paths Sage Mode. It is also mixed with Kurama Mode. (not Kurama Chakra Mode)
2. Six Paths Sage Mode itself coincidentally also contains a slit.
I think the more logical answer is option 2. Even though it looks almost exactly the same as Kurama Sage Mode (not in chakra mode) except for the lack of pigmentation, the slit of Kurama is thicker at the centre but thinner at the side, whereas the one from SPSM is equally thin throughout.
This creates more ambiguity when Naruto combines his Kurama Chakra Mode with Sage Mode which his eyes turn orange, but when combined with Six Paths Sage Mode, his eyes remained yellow, and the slit remained thin as it was in base form.
Things become more confusing when you realise that only when he activate his chakra cloak, then the "Six Paths Senjutsu" swirling logo (also seen on the back of Juubi Jinchurikis and Hagoromo's forehead) appears and he can manifest truth-seeking orbs. So is this the real Six Paths Sage Mode?
Does Adult Naruto Really Still Have Six Paths Sage Mode
So despite him having no pigmentation in Kurama Sage Mode, he no longer has the Six Paths Senjutsu logo on his back (nor anywhere else), no Truth Seeking Orbs, no Six Paths Yang Seal, his eyes are orange rather than yellow. There's no way to know whether he has precognition since there are no Limbo Clones. Basically there's no real defining trait that we can use to say for sure that this is Six Paths Sage Mode.
Being able to levitate was once a unique ability to Six Paths Sage Mode. However in Naruto: The Last movie he was able to fly in just Kurama Sage Mode. So despite Adult Naruto being able to fly, it doesn't help in the proof.
Another argument is that Six Paths Sage Mode is defined by whether you have the Six Paths Yang Seal. Even though he still seem to retain all his powers like truth seeking orbs for his final fight against Sasuke, that can also be seen as residual chakra.
Another argument is that since Sasuke retains his Rinnegan, there is no reason Naruto don't retain his Six Paths powers. However the Rinnegan is an physical organ that may not need Six Paths chakra to perform. While you can awaken Rinnegan by obtaining what's known as Six Paths chakra, it is not the only way. The concept of Rinnegan comes way before the concept of Six Paths itself, so it is a much broader concept.
Moral of the Story
You realise that all the previous points only says why Naruto can have no Six Paths chakra, but not why he doesn't have. I still believe that he has Six Paths chakra, but the moral of the story is that Narutoverse is one of the most well-established "Hard Magic System" in fiction. There are too many rules to keep track of, and one can have a completely different set of understanding from another. Always challenge your assumptions, even those that seem blatantly obvious to you at first.
Posted by
Revold
(440 posts)
- 1 month, 7 days ago
- Show Bio
This used to be a debatable question, but at this age a simple Google search for this question will tell you that THIS is Six Paths Sage Mode, "+" sign without pigmentation, and Adult Naruto managed to reproduce this in Boruto.
But I'm going to present you some alternative theory that might change things altogether.
What is Six Paths Sage Mode??
To answer the question, we first have to determine what is SPSM. To do that, I'll have to go through the characteristics of the previous forms so that we wouldn't get confused, all of which could be classified into two main types: 1. Chakra Mode (and corresponding Tailed Beast avatar); and 2. Sage Mode.
1. Chakra Mode
Chakra Mode, as evident from what we've seen to now, is any mode that covers the body or part of the body (such as arm) with some form of chakra. Other than Naruto, Toneri is the other canon example with such a form.
1.1 Initial Jinchuriki Form (KCM0)
Naruto's first forms involves red slitted pupils where he only had a relatively thin layer of translucent chakra shroud, something of a KCM0 if you would. It is useful in his last fight against Sasuke, only a small amount of chakra is needed to create a layer of chakra to block Sasuke's Amaterasu.
Naruto can't manifest a full Kyuubi avatar in this form, but the corresponding version of the avatar can be seen when it was being extracted from Kushina.
And for the record, the Kurama manifestations you see are avatars, and tailed beasts transformations like 8-tails are Bijuu Mode, not chakra modes.
Also, this category only applies for V1 as V2 is not really a chakra mode.
1.2 Kyuubi Chakra Mode (KCM1)
Fan-dubbed KCM1, this form is seen on both Naruto and Minato, with solid orange chakra but retains their pupils unlike KCM0 and KCM2. Instead of having red eyes that matches Kurama's, he has orange eyes that matches with the beast's chakra colour.
At this point, Naruto was still unable to manifest the full Bijuu Avatar.
1.2 Kurama Chakra Mode (KCM2)
1.2.1 Kurama Chakra Cloak (KCM2.5)
Naruto gains Kurama's cooperation, thicker whisker marks and back to slitted pupils again. It is also called Kurama Link Mode in Ultimate Ninja Storm 4.
Some also refer to a powered-up version as Kurama Chakra Cloak or simply Kurama Cloak, though most are never too bothered to make the distinction.
This form has its corresponding full-fledged Avatar made out of the same colour chakra. Also, Ashura Kurama Mode is technically not a "mode". Naruto was still in KCM2 but just conjured a different avatar.
Although some (Naruto included) call this form simply as "Kurama Mode", to avoid confusion I still prefer to specify it as a chakra mode as well, because Naruto is still capable of turning into this form which also has the same appearance changes but without the yellow chakra
The combination of Kurama (non-Chakra) Mode and Sage Mode is also shown below, called Kurama Sage Mode.
2. Sage Mode
We are not unfamiliar with this as there's quite a few Sage Mode users in Naruto. Mitsuki's Sage Mode is so shiny, it almost seem like a chakra mode as well.
2.1 Sage Mode (regular)
Naruto's Sage Mode involves the pupil of a toad and orange pigmentation around his eyes.
2.2 Six Paths Sage Mode
For the longest time we have accepted that this is Six Paths Sage Mode: "+" pupils in yellow eyes without pigmentation around. The yellow eyes make sense since it comes from the regular Sage Mode, but why does this mode seem to have fox slitted pupils, even though he is not in Kurama Sage Mode? Either
1. This is not just Six Paths Sage Mode. It is also mixed with Kurama Mode. (not Kurama Chakra Mode)
2. Six Paths Sage Mode itself coincidentally also contains a slit.
I think the more logical answer is option 2. Even though it looks almost exactly the same as Kurama Sage Mode (not in chakra mode) except for the lack of pigmentation, the slit of Kurama is thicker at the centre but thinner at the side, whereas the one from SPSM is equally thin throughout.
This creates more ambiguity when Naruto combines his Kurama Chakra Mode with Sage Mode which his eyes turn orange, but when combined with Six Paths Sage Mode, his eyes remained yellow, and the slit remained thin as it was in base form.
Things become more confusing when you realise that only when he activate his chakra cloak, then the "Six Paths Senjutsu" swirling logo (also seen on the back of Juubi Jinchurikis and Hagoromo's forehead) appears and he can manifest truth-seeking orbs. So is this the real Six Paths Sage Mode?
Does Adult Naruto Really Still Have Six Paths Sage Mode
So despite him having no pigmentation in Kurama Sage Mode, he no longer has the Six Paths Senjutsu logo on his back (nor anywhere else), no Truth Seeking Orbs, no Six Paths Yang Seal, his eyes are orange rather than yellow. There's no way to know whether he has precognition since there are no Limbo Clones. Basically there's no real defining trait that we can use to say for sure that this is Six Paths Sage Mode.
Being able to levitate was once a unique ability to Six Paths Sage Mode. However in Naruto: The Last movie he was able to fly in just Kurama Sage Mode. So despite Adult Naruto being able to fly, it doesn't help in the proof.
Another argument is that Six Paths Sage Mode is defined by whether you have the Six Paths Yang Seal. Even though he still seem to retain all his powers like truth seeking orbs for his final fight against Sasuke, that can also be seen as residual chakra.
Another argument is that since Sasuke retains his Rinnegan, there is no reason Naruto don't retain his Six Paths powers. However the Rinnegan is an physical organ that may not need Six Paths chakra to perform. While you can awaken Rinnegan by obtaining what's known as Six Paths chakra, it is not the only way. The concept of Rinnegan comes way before the concept of Six Paths itself, so it is a much broader concept.
Moral of the Story
You realise that all the previous points only says why Naruto can have no Six Paths chakra, but not why he doesn't have. I still believe that he has Six Paths chakra, but the moral of the story is that Narutoverse is one of the most well-established "Hard Magic System" in fiction. There are too many rules to keep track of, and one can have a completely different set of understanding from another. Always challenge your assumptions, even those that seem blatantly obvious to you at first.
Posted by
Revold
(440 posts)
- 1 month, 7 days ago
- Show Bio
This used to be a debatable question, but at this age a simple Google search for this question will tell you that THIS is Six Paths Sage Mode, "+" sign without pigmentation, and Adult Naruto managed to reproduce this in Boruto.
But I'm going to present you some alternative theory that might change things altogether.
What is Six Paths Sage Mode??
To answer the question, we first have to determine what is SPSM. To do that, I'll have to go through the characteristics of the previous forms so that we wouldn't get confused, all of which could be classified into two main types: 1. Chakra Mode (and corresponding Tailed Beast avatar); and 2. Sage Mode.
1. Chakra Mode
Chakra Mode, as evident from what we've seen to now, is any mode that covers the body or part of the body (such as arm) with some form of chakra. Other than Naruto, Toneri is the other canon example with such a form.
1.1 Initial Jinchuriki Form (KCM0)
Naruto's first forms involves red slitted pupils where he only had a relatively thin layer of translucent chakra shroud, something of a KCM0 if you would. It is useful in his last fight against Sasuke, only a small amount of chakra is needed to create a layer of chakra to block Sasuke's Amaterasu.
Naruto can't manifest a full Kyuubi avatar in this form, but the corresponding version of the avatar can be seen when it was being extracted from Kushina.
And for the record, the Kurama manifestations you see are avatars, and tailed beasts transformations like 8-tails are Bijuu Mode, not chakra modes.
Also, this category only applies for V1 as V2 is not really a chakra mode.
1.2 Kyuubi Chakra Mode (KCM1)
Fan-dubbed KCM1, this form is seen on both Naruto and Minato, with solid orange chakra but retains their pupils unlike KCM0 and KCM2. Instead of having red eyes that matches Kurama's, he has orange eyes that matches with the beast's chakra colour.
At this point, Naruto was still unable to manifest the full Bijuu Avatar.
1.2 Kurama Chakra Mode (KCM2)
1.2.1 Kurama Chakra Cloak (KCM2.5)
Naruto gains Kurama's cooperation, thicker whisker marks and back to slitted pupils again. It is also called Kurama Link Mode in Ultimate Ninja Storm 4.
Some also refer to a powered-up version as Kurama Chakra Cloak or simply Kurama Cloak, though most are never too bothered to make the distinction.
This form has its corresponding full-fledged Avatar made out of the same colour chakra. Also, Ashura Kurama Mode is technically not a "mode". Naruto was still in KCM2 but just conjured a different avatar.
Although some (Naruto included) call this form simply as "Kurama Mode", to avoid confusion I still prefer to specify it as a chakra mode as well, because Naruto is still capable of turning into this form which also has the same appearance changes but without the yellow chakra
The combination of Kurama (non-Chakra) Mode and Sage Mode is also shown below, called Kurama Sage Mode.
2. Sage Mode
We are not unfamiliar with this as there's quite a few Sage Mode users in Naruto. Mitsuki's Sage Mode is so shiny, it almost seem like a chakra mode as well.
2.1 Sage Mode (regular)
Naruto's Sage Mode involves the pupil of a toad and orange pigmentation around his eyes.
2.2 Six Paths Sage Mode
For the longest time we have accepted that this is Six Paths Sage Mode: "+" pupils in yellow eyes without pigmentation around. The yellow eyes make sense since it comes from the regular Sage Mode, but why does this mode seem to have fox slitted pupils, even though he is not in Kurama Sage Mode? Either
1. This is not just Six Paths Sage Mode. It is also mixed with Kurama Mode. (not Kurama Chakra Mode)
2. Six Paths Sage Mode itself coincidentally also contains a slit.
I think the more logical answer is option 2. Even though it looks almost exactly the same as Kurama Sage Mode (not in chakra mode) except for the lack of pigmentation, the slit of Kurama is thicker at the centre but thinner at the side, whereas the one from SPSM is equally thin throughout.
This creates more ambiguity when Naruto combines his Kurama Chakra Mode with Sage Mode which his eyes turn orange, but when combined with Six Paths Sage Mode, his eyes remained yellow, and the slit remained thin as it was in base form.
Things become more confusing when you realise that only when he activate his chakra cloak, then the "Six Paths Senjutsu" swirling logo (also seen on the back of Juubi Jinchurikis and Hagoromo's forehead) appears and he can manifest truth-seeking orbs. So is this the real Six Paths Sage Mode?
Does Adult Naruto Really Still Have Six Paths Sage Mode
So despite him having no pigmentation in Kurama Sage Mode, he no longer has the Six Paths Senjutsu logo on his back (nor anywhere else), no Truth Seeking Orbs, no Six Paths Yang Seal, his eyes are orange rather than yellow. There's no way to know whether he has precognition since there are no Limbo Clones. Basically there's no real defining trait that we can use to say for sure that this is Six Paths Sage Mode.
Being able to levitate was once a unique ability to Six Paths Sage Mode. However in Naruto: The Last movie he was able to fly in just Kurama Sage Mode. So despite Adult Naruto being able to fly, it doesn't help in the proof.
Another argument is that Six Paths Sage Mode is defined by whether you have the Six Paths Yang Seal. Even though he still seem to retain all his powers like truth seeking orbs for his final fight against Sasuke, that can also be seen as residual chakra.
Another argument is that since Sasuke retains his Rinnegan, there is no reason Naruto don't retain his Six Paths powers. However the Rinnegan is an physical organ that may not need Six Paths chakra to perform. While you can awaken Rinnegan by obtaining what's known as Six Paths chakra, it is not the only way. The concept of Rinnegan comes way before the concept of Six Paths itself, so it is a much broader concept.
Moral of the Story
You realise that all the previous points only says why Naruto can have no Six Paths chakra, but not why he doesn't have. I still believe that he has Six Paths chakra, but the moral of the story is that Narutoverse is one of the most well-established "Hard Magic System" in fiction. There are too many rules to keep track of, and one can have a completely different set of understanding from another. Always challenge your assumptions, even those that seem blatantly obvious to you at first.
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#1
Edited by
BatmanPlusJay
(2258 posts)
- 1 month, 7 days ago
- Show Bio
He has six paths sage mode.
1) It's not a bottle of cologne you spray on and it wears off over time. That's just not how did paths sage mode works.
2) You're saying Kishimoto let Sasuke keep his rinnegan and told Naruto "Ey bro, I want my shit back" after Naruto and Sasuke fought? Nowhere in any novel or manga does it state or suggest Naruto's ever lost his six paths power, and yes that mode Naruto was in in the Momoshiki arc is six paths sage mode and you could tell because or the eyes.
3) Naruto was able to touch Toneri's TSB without dying.
Why do people assume Naruto just magically loses things just because they haven't seen it? You don't just assume something is magically lost over time because logic when nothing in the story suggest it's lost except it's absence. The TSB comes with six paths sage mode, but they're not six paths sage mode themselves so it's irrelevant whether they're present or not. The seal is simply a seal, a gift from Hagoromo to take down Kaguya, no correlation to spsm whatsoever.
The answer is much simpler than you're trying to make it. His eyes show he still has six paths sage mode, Naruto flies several times in the Boruto anime and in The Last and yet people are still questioning whether he has the mode or not. It makes no sense.
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- BatmanPlusJay
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Forum Posts: 2258
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#1
Edited by
BatmanPlusJay
(2258 posts)
- 1 month, 7 days ago
- Show Bio
He has six paths sage mode.
1) It's not a bottle of cologne you spray on and it wears off over time. That's just not how did paths sage mode works.
2) You're saying Kishimoto let Sasuke keep his rinnegan and told Naruto "Ey bro, I want my shit back" after Naruto and Sasuke fought? Nowhere in any novel or manga does it state or suggest Naruto's ever lost his six paths power, and yes that mode Naruto was in in the Momoshiki arc is six paths sage mode and you could tell because or the eyes.
3) Naruto was able to touch Toneri's TSB without dying.
Why do people assume Naruto just magically loses things just because they haven't seen it? You don't just assume something is magically lost over time because logic when nothing in the story suggest it's lost except it's absence. The TSB comes with six paths sage mode, but they're not six paths sage mode themselves so it's irrelevant whether they're present or not. The seal is simply a seal, a gift from Hagoromo to take down Kaguya, no correlation to spsm whatsoever.
The answer is much simpler than you're trying to make it. His eyes show he still has six paths sage mode, Naruto flies several times in the Boruto anime and in The Last and yet people are still questioning whether he has the mode or not. It makes no sense.
#1
Edited by
BatmanPlusJay
(2258 posts)
- 1 month, 7 days ago
- Show Bio
He has six paths sage mode.
1) It's not a bottle of cologne you spray on and it wears off over time. That's just not how did paths sage mode works.
2) You're saying Kishimoto let Sasuke keep his rinnegan and told Naruto "Ey bro, I want my shit back" after Naruto and Sasuke fought? Nowhere in any novel or manga does it state or suggest Naruto's ever lost his six paths power, and yes that mode Naruto was in in the Momoshiki arc is six paths sage mode and you could tell because or the eyes.
3) Naruto was able to touch Toneri's TSB without dying.
Why do people assume Naruto just magically loses things just because they haven't seen it? You don't just assume something is magically lost over time because logic when nothing in the story suggest it's lost except it's absence. The TSB comes with six paths sage mode, but they're not six paths sage mode themselves so it's irrelevant whether they're present or not. The seal is simply a seal, a gift from Hagoromo to take down Kaguya, no correlation to spsm whatsoever.
The answer is much simpler than you're trying to make it. His eyes show he still has six paths sage mode, Naruto flies several times in the Boruto anime and in The Last and yet people are still questioning whether he has the mode or not. It makes no sense.
#1
Edited by
BatmanPlusJay
(2258 posts)
- 1 month, 7 days ago
- Show Bio
He has six paths sage mode.
1) It's not a bottle of cologne you spray on and it wears off over time. That's just not how did paths sage mode works.
2) You're saying Kishimoto let Sasuke keep his rinnegan and told Naruto "Ey bro, I want my shit back" after Naruto and Sasuke fought? Nowhere in any novel or manga does it state or suggest Naruto's ever lost his six paths power, and yes that mode Naruto was in in the Momoshiki arc is six paths sage mode and you could tell because or the eyes.
3) Naruto was able to touch Toneri's TSB without dying.
Why do people assume Naruto just magically loses things just because they haven't seen it? You don't just assume something is magically lost over time because logic when nothing in the story suggest it's lost except it's absence. The TSB comes with six paths sage mode, but they're not six paths sage mode themselves so it's irrelevant whether they're present or not. The seal is simply a seal, a gift from Hagoromo to take down Kaguya, no correlation to spsm whatsoever.
The answer is much simpler than you're trying to make it. His eyes show he still has six paths sage mode, Naruto flies several times in the Boruto anime and in The Last and yet people are still questioning whether he has the mode or not. It makes no sense.
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#2
Posted by
Revold
(440 posts)
- 1 month, 5 days ago
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@batmanplusjay said:
He has six paths sage mode.
1) It's not a bottle of cologne you spray on and it wears off over time. That's just not how did paths sage mode works.
Reason why I went through all the forms is to properly define all the various characteristics by their correct terminology so as to isolate what exactly makes Six Paths Sage Mode different, especially from regular Sage Mode. The only apparent difference here is what's called "Six Paths Chakra", and we know that chakra depletes and can run out overtime. Whether Hagoromo's gift actually affects Naruto's soul such that it is able to reproduce this chakra is debatable, and until now I have not found concrete evidence to support such claim.
2) You're saying Kishimoto let Sasuke keep his rinnegan and told Naruto "Ey bro, I want my shit back" after Naruto and Sasuke fought? Nowhere in any novel or manga does it state or suggest Naruto's ever lost his six paths power, and yes that mode Naruto was in in the Momoshiki arc is six paths sage mode and you could tell because or the eyes.
Appeal to author's intention is not really a fair logical deduction that can rightfully justify a claim like this. And yes the eyes are probably the only sign of evidence, but going back to my OP, we can't even say for sure if that is what defines SPSM. If so, why is his Senjutsu sign and TSB only appear when he activate his chakra mode? This problem is more apparent when you consider that Hagoromo do not have to be Jinchuriki of anything to materialise his Senjutsu sign on his forehead and one TSB (his Six Paths staff) in just base form.
3) Naruto was able to touch Toneri's TSB without dying.
Well TSB doesn't always instantly deteriorate anything it touches. We see Sasuke standing on Naruto's TSB with no problems, and Madara's TSB touched Minato's back without even leaving holes in his shirt. From what I can tell it depends on the user's conscious will and power at the time, which makes it a very unreliable point to argue.
Why do people assume Naruto just magically loses things just because they haven't seen it? You don't just assume something is magically lost over time because logic when nothing in the story suggest it's lost except it's absence.
Well I didn't assume anything. The whole point of this entire post is to encourage people to challenge their preconceived assumptions, and that things can often go both ways. There are many things to suggest that he has/has not lost it, but none of them proves it.
The TSB comes with six paths sage mode, but they're not six paths sage mode themselves so it's irrelevant whether they're present or not. The seal is simply a seal, a gift from Hagoromo to take down Kaguya, no correlation to spsm whatsoever.
Truth seeking orbs requires different chakra natures from tailed beasts and six paths senjutsu to produce. I'm not saying that just because it disappears, he no longer has SPSM. I'm saying that because it disappears, there's one less reason to believe that he has.
The seal is literally called Six Paths Yang Seal. If he still has the Six Paths powers, then that might be a reason to believe that he has Six Paths chakra, which might very well mean that he has Six Paths Sage Mode.
The answer is much simpler than you're trying to make it. His eyes show he still has six paths sage mode, Naruto flies several times in the Boruto anime and in The Last and yet people are still questioning whether he has the mode or not. It makes no sense.
I've addressed the eyes above, and also the flying part in my OP. The whole reason why I created this post is that while we claim that it doesn't make sense, we can't find a concrete evidence to proof so. All the evidences we find can be interpreted otherwise, and to prove anything at this point requires me to go through almost everything else as well.
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#2
Posted by
Revold
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- 1 month, 5 days ago
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@batmanplusjay said:
He has six paths sage mode.
1) It's not a bottle of cologne you spray on and it wears off over time. That's just not how did paths sage mode works.
Reason why I went through all the forms is to properly define all the various characteristics by their correct terminology so as to isolate what exactly makes Six Paths Sage Mode different, especially from regular Sage Mode. The only apparent difference here is what's called "Six Paths Chakra", and we know that chakra depletes and can run out overtime. Whether Hagoromo's gift actually affects Naruto's soul such that it is able to reproduce this chakra is debatable, and until now I have not found concrete evidence to support such claim.
2) You're saying Kishimoto let Sasuke keep his rinnegan and told Naruto "Ey bro, I want my shit back" after Naruto and Sasuke fought? Nowhere in any novel or manga does it state or suggest Naruto's ever lost his six paths power, and yes that mode Naruto was in in the Momoshiki arc is six paths sage mode and you could tell because or the eyes.
Appeal to author's intention is not really a fair logical deduction that can rightfully justify a claim like this. And yes the eyes are probably the only sign of evidence, but going back to my OP, we can't even say for sure if that is what defines SPSM. If so, why is his Senjutsu sign and TSB only appear when he activate his chakra mode? This problem is more apparent when you consider that Hagoromo do not have to be Jinchuriki of anything to materialise his Senjutsu sign on his forehead and one TSB (his Six Paths staff) in just base form.
3) Naruto was able to touch Toneri's TSB without dying.
Well TSB doesn't always instantly deteriorate anything it touches. We see Sasuke standing on Naruto's TSB with no problems, and Madara's TSB touched Minato's back without even leaving holes in his shirt. From what I can tell it depends on the user's conscious will and power at the time, which makes it a very unreliable point to argue.
Why do people assume Naruto just magically loses things just because they haven't seen it? You don't just assume something is magically lost over time because logic when nothing in the story suggest it's lost except it's absence.
Well I didn't assume anything. The whole point of this entire post is to encourage people to challenge their preconceived assumptions, and that things can often go both ways. There are many things to suggest that he has/has not lost it, but none of them proves it.
The TSB comes with six paths sage mode, but they're not six paths sage mode themselves so it's irrelevant whether they're present or not. The seal is simply a seal, a gift from Hagoromo to take down Kaguya, no correlation to spsm whatsoever.
Truth seeking orbs requires different chakra natures from tailed beasts and six paths senjutsu to produce. I'm not saying that just because it disappears, he no longer has SPSM. I'm saying that because it disappears, there's one less reason to believe that he has.
The seal is literally called Six Paths Yang Seal. If he still has the Six Paths powers, then that might be a reason to believe that he has Six Paths chakra, which might very well mean that he has Six Paths Sage Mode.
The answer is much simpler than you're trying to make it. His eyes show he still has six paths sage mode, Naruto flies several times in the Boruto anime and in The Last and yet people are still questioning whether he has the mode or not. It makes no sense.
I've addressed the eyes above, and also the flying part in my OP. The whole reason why I created this post is that while we claim that it doesn't make sense, we can't find a concrete evidence to proof so. All the evidences we find can be interpreted otherwise, and to prove anything at this point requires me to go through almost everything else as well.
#2
Posted by
Revold
(440 posts)
- 1 month, 5 days ago
- Show Bio
@batmanplusjay said:
He has six paths sage mode.
1) It's not a bottle of cologne you spray on and it wears off over time. That's just not how did paths sage mode works.
Reason why I went through all the forms is to properly define all the various characteristics by their correct terminology so as to isolate what exactly makes Six Paths Sage Mode different, especially from regular Sage Mode. The only apparent difference here is what's called "Six Paths Chakra", and we know that chakra depletes and can run out overtime. Whether Hagoromo's gift actually affects Naruto's soul such that it is able to reproduce this chakra is debatable, and until now I have not found concrete evidence to support such claim.
2) You're saying Kishimoto let Sasuke keep his rinnegan and told Naruto "Ey bro, I want my shit back" after Naruto and Sasuke fought? Nowhere in any novel or manga does it state or suggest Naruto's ever lost his six paths power, and yes that mode Naruto was in in the Momoshiki arc is six paths sage mode and you could tell because or the eyes.
Appeal to author's intention is not really a fair logical deduction that can rightfully justify a claim like this. And yes the eyes are probably the only sign of evidence, but going back to my OP, we can't even say for sure if that is what defines SPSM. If so, why is his Senjutsu sign and TSB only appear when he activate his chakra mode? This problem is more apparent when you consider that Hagoromo do not have to be Jinchuriki of anything to materialise his Senjutsu sign on his forehead and one TSB (his Six Paths staff) in just base form.
3) Naruto was able to touch Toneri's TSB without dying.
Well TSB doesn't always instantly deteriorate anything it touches. We see Sasuke standing on Naruto's TSB with no problems, and Madara's TSB touched Minato's back without even leaving holes in his shirt. From what I can tell it depends on the user's conscious will and power at the time, which makes it a very unreliable point to argue.
Why do people assume Naruto just magically loses things just because they haven't seen it? You don't just assume something is magically lost over time because logic when nothing in the story suggest it's lost except it's absence.
Well I didn't assume anything. The whole point of this entire post is to encourage people to challenge their preconceived assumptions, and that things can often go both ways. There are many things to suggest that he has/has not lost it, but none of them proves it.
The TSB comes with six paths sage mode, but they're not six paths sage mode themselves so it's irrelevant whether they're present or not. The seal is simply a seal, a gift from Hagoromo to take down Kaguya, no correlation to spsm whatsoever.
Truth seeking orbs requires different chakra natures from tailed beasts and six paths senjutsu to produce. I'm not saying that just because it disappears, he no longer has SPSM. I'm saying that because it disappears, there's one less reason to believe that he has.
The seal is literally called Six Paths Yang Seal. If he still has the Six Paths powers, then that might be a reason to believe that he has Six Paths chakra, which might very well mean that he has Six Paths Sage Mode.
The answer is much simpler than you're trying to make it. His eyes show he still has six paths sage mode, Naruto flies several times in the Boruto anime and in The Last and yet people are still questioning whether he has the mode or not. It makes no sense.
I've addressed the eyes above, and also the flying part in my OP. The whole reason why I created this post is that while we claim that it doesn't make sense, we can't find a concrete evidence to proof so. All the evidences we find can be interpreted otherwise, and to prove anything at this point requires me to go through almost everything else as well.
#2
Posted by
Revold
(440 posts)
- 1 month, 5 days ago
- Show Bio
@batmanplusjay said:
He has six paths sage mode.
1) It's not a bottle of cologne you spray on and it wears off over time. That's just not how did paths sage mode works.
Reason why I went through all the forms is to properly define all the various characteristics by their correct terminology so as to isolate what exactly makes Six Paths Sage Mode different, especially from regular Sage Mode. The only apparent difference here is what's called "Six Paths Chakra", and we know that chakra depletes and can run out overtime. Whether Hagoromo's gift actually affects Naruto's soul such that it is able to reproduce this chakra is debatable, and until now I have not found concrete evidence to support such claim.
2) You're saying Kishimoto let Sasuke keep his rinnegan and told Naruto "Ey bro, I want my shit back" after Naruto and Sasuke fought? Nowhere in any novel or manga does it state or suggest Naruto's ever lost his six paths power, and yes that mode Naruto was in in the Momoshiki arc is six paths sage mode and you could tell because or the eyes.
Appeal to author's intention is not really a fair logical deduction that can rightfully justify a claim like this. And yes the eyes are probably the only sign of evidence, but going back to my OP, we can't even say for sure if that is what defines SPSM. If so, why is his Senjutsu sign and TSB only appear when he activate his chakra mode? This problem is more apparent when you consider that Hagoromo do not have to be Jinchuriki of anything to materialise his Senjutsu sign on his forehead and one TSB (his Six Paths staff) in just base form.
3) Naruto was able to touch Toneri's TSB without dying.
Well TSB doesn't always instantly deteriorate anything it touches. We see Sasuke standing on Naruto's TSB with no problems, and Madara's TSB touched Minato's back without even leaving holes in his shirt. From what I can tell it depends on the user's conscious will and power at the time, which makes it a very unreliable point to argue.
Why do people assume Naruto just magically loses things just because they haven't seen it? You don't just assume something is magically lost over time because logic when nothing in the story suggest it's lost except it's absence.
Well I didn't assume anything. The whole point of this entire post is to encourage people to challenge their preconceived assumptions, and that things can often go both ways. There are many things to suggest that he has/has not lost it, but none of them proves it.
The TSB comes with six paths sage mode, but they're not six paths sage mode themselves so it's irrelevant whether they're present or not. The seal is simply a seal, a gift from Hagoromo to take down Kaguya, no correlation to spsm whatsoever.
Truth seeking orbs requires different chakra natures from tailed beasts and six paths senjutsu to produce. I'm not saying that just because it disappears, he no longer has SPSM. I'm saying that because it disappears, there's one less reason to believe that he has.
The seal is literally called Six Paths Yang Seal. If he still has the Six Paths powers, then that might be a reason to believe that he has Six Paths chakra, which might very well mean that he has Six Paths Sage Mode.
The answer is much simpler than you're trying to make it. His eyes show he still has six paths sage mode, Naruto flies several times in the Boruto anime and in The Last and yet people are still questioning whether he has the mode or not. It makes no sense.
I've addressed the eyes above, and also the flying part in my OP. The whole reason why I created this post is that while we claim that it doesn't make sense, we can't find a concrete evidence to proof so. All the evidences we find can be interpreted otherwise, and to prove anything at this point requires me to go through almost everything else as well.
@batmanplusjay said:
He has six paths sage mode.
1) It's not a bottle of cologne you spray on and it wears off over time. That's just not how did paths sage mode works.
@batmanplusjay said:
He has six paths sage mode.
1) It's not a bottle of cologne you spray on and it wears off over time. That's just not how did paths sage mode works.
2) You're saying Kishimoto let Sasuke keep his rinnegan and told Naruto "Ey bro, I want my shit back" after Naruto and Sasuke fought? Nowhere in any novel or manga does it state or suggest Naruto's ever lost his six paths power, and yes that mode Naruto was in in the Momoshiki arc is six paths sage mode and you could tell because or the eyes.
2) You're saying Kishimoto let Sasuke keep his rinnegan and told Naruto "Ey bro, I want my shit back" after Naruto and Sasuke fought? Nowhere in any novel or manga does it state or suggest Naruto's ever lost his six paths power, and yes that mode Naruto was in in the Momoshiki arc is six paths sage mode and you could tell because or the eyes.
3) Naruto was able to touch Toneri's TSB without dying.
3) Naruto was able to touch Toneri's TSB without dying.
Why do people assume Naruto just magically loses things just because they haven't seen it? You don't just assume something is magically lost over time because logic when nothing in the story suggest it's lost except it's absence.
Why do people assume Naruto just magically loses things just because they haven't seen it? You don't just assume something is magically lost over time because logic when nothing in the story suggest it's lost except it's absence.
The TSB comes with six paths sage mode, but they're not six paths sage mode themselves so it's irrelevant whether they're present or not. The seal is simply a seal, a gift from Hagoromo to take down Kaguya, no correlation to spsm whatsoever.
The TSB comes with six paths sage mode, but they're not six paths sage mode themselves so it's irrelevant whether they're present or not. The seal is simply a seal, a gift from Hagoromo to take down Kaguya, no correlation to spsm whatsoever.
The answer is much simpler than you're trying to make it. His eyes show he still has six paths sage mode, Naruto flies several times in the Boruto anime and in The Last and yet people are still questioning whether he has the mode or not. It makes no sense.
The answer is much simpler than you're trying to make it. His eyes show he still has six paths sage mode, Naruto flies several times in the Boruto anime and in The Last and yet people are still questioning whether he has the mode or not. It makes no sense.
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#3
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Streak619
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It's the eye pigments. None of what you said really debunks it. You made an assumption that the vertical slits were inherently part of the mode. And despite having clear distincyions in the slits between KCSM and RKCM, you call it confusing and ambiguous.
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#3
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Streak619
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It's the eye pigments. None of what you said really debunks it. You made an assumption that the vertical slits were inherently part of the mode. And despite having clear distincyions in the slits between KCSM and RKCM, you call it confusing and ambiguous.
#3
Posted by
Streak619
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- 1 month, 5 days ago
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It's the eye pigments. None of what you said really debunks it. You made an assumption that the vertical slits were inherently part of the mode. And despite having clear distincyions in the slits between KCSM and RKCM, you call it confusing and ambiguous.
#3
Posted by
Streak619
(5548 posts)
- 1 month, 5 days ago
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It's the eye pigments. None of what you said really debunks it. You made an assumption that the vertical slits were inherently part of the mode. And despite having clear distincyions in the slits between KCSM and RKCM, you call it confusing and ambiguous.
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#4
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Revold
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@streak619 said:
It's the eye pigments. None of what you said really debunks it. You made an assumption that the vertical slits were inherently part of the mode. And despite having clear distincyions in the slits between KCSM and RKCM, you call it confusing and ambiguous.
No no no no no wait what?
I'm not debunking. I'm opening up the possibility. It's a "why not" situation.
Nono that's not an assumption. That's a thought experiment. Reason is because it doesn't make logical sense that Six Paths Sage Mode (no Kurama chakra or anything to do with Kurama Mode) shares the same characteristics (slitted eyes) as Kurama Mode. Again if you don't want to consider my "assumption", I'm happy to hear your explanation on that.
Now I'm confused. You claim that there's clear distinctions in the slits, yet you disagree that the vertical slit in SPSM is independent of the one on KCSM (since it is not inherently part of the mode, it is dependent on something else then????)
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#4
Posted by
Revold
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@streak619 said:
It's the eye pigments. None of what you said really debunks it. You made an assumption that the vertical slits were inherently part of the mode. And despite having clear distincyions in the slits between KCSM and RKCM, you call it confusing and ambiguous.
No no no no no wait what?
I'm not debunking. I'm opening up the possibility. It's a "why not" situation.
Nono that's not an assumption. That's a thought experiment. Reason is because it doesn't make logical sense that Six Paths Sage Mode (no Kurama chakra or anything to do with Kurama Mode) shares the same characteristics (slitted eyes) as Kurama Mode. Again if you don't want to consider my "assumption", I'm happy to hear your explanation on that.
Now I'm confused. You claim that there's clear distinctions in the slits, yet you disagree that the vertical slit in SPSM is independent of the one on KCSM (since it is not inherently part of the mode, it is dependent on something else then????)
#4
Posted by
Revold
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- 1 month, 5 days ago
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@streak619 said:
It's the eye pigments. None of what you said really debunks it. You made an assumption that the vertical slits were inherently part of the mode. And despite having clear distincyions in the slits between KCSM and RKCM, you call it confusing and ambiguous.
No no no no no wait what?
I'm not debunking. I'm opening up the possibility. It's a "why not" situation.
Nono that's not an assumption. That's a thought experiment. Reason is because it doesn't make logical sense that Six Paths Sage Mode (no Kurama chakra or anything to do with Kurama Mode) shares the same characteristics (slitted eyes) as Kurama Mode. Again if you don't want to consider my "assumption", I'm happy to hear your explanation on that.
Now I'm confused. You claim that there's clear distinctions in the slits, yet you disagree that the vertical slit in SPSM is independent of the one on KCSM (since it is not inherently part of the mode, it is dependent on something else then????)
#4
Posted by
Revold
(440 posts)
- 1 month, 5 days ago
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@streak619 said:
It's the eye pigments. None of what you said really debunks it. You made an assumption that the vertical slits were inherently part of the mode. And despite having clear distincyions in the slits between KCSM and RKCM, you call it confusing and ambiguous.
No no no no no wait what?
I'm not debunking. I'm opening up the possibility. It's a "why not" situation.
Nono that's not an assumption. That's a thought experiment. Reason is because it doesn't make logical sense that Six Paths Sage Mode (no Kurama chakra or anything to do with Kurama Mode) shares the same characteristics (slitted eyes) as Kurama Mode. Again if you don't want to consider my "assumption", I'm happy to hear your explanation on that.
Now I'm confused. You claim that there's clear distinctions in the slits, yet you disagree that the vertical slit in SPSM is independent of the one on KCSM (since it is not inherently part of the mode, it is dependent on something else then????)
@streak619 said:
It's the eye pigments. None of what you said really debunks it. You made an assumption that the vertical slits were inherently part of the mode. And despite having clear distincyions in the slits between KCSM and RKCM, you call it confusing and ambiguous.
@streak619 said:
It's the eye pigments. None of what you said really debunks it. You made an assumption that the vertical slits were inherently part of the mode. And despite having clear distincyions in the slits between KCSM and RKCM, you call it confusing and ambiguous.
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#5
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JOVIOLMA
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According to Shikamaru's Light Novel he likely still can use it.
The Nine Tails was still living inside Naruto. There were also remnants of the other 8 bijuu inside him as well. In that way, you could say he was a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails. In the last war, Obito had become a human pillar for the Ten Tails and gained chakra rivalling that of the Sage of the Six Paths. Naruto, who’d taken the bijuu into him as well, had some of the Sage’s power even now.
According to the Fourth Databook, the Six Paths Sage Mode is something that is give directly from Hagoromo, so is kind of unlikely that he would lost his Transformation for no reason, Sasuke's Rinnegan also comes from Hagoromo and he still having it until today.
Six Paths Sage Mode
Ninjutsu, Senjutsu - Sage of Six Paths Mode
No rank, no range, offensive, defensive, supplementary
Users: Naruto Uzumaki
⬅ The floating ability used by the Sage of Six Paths is also almost mastered unconsciously by this technique's user.
From the ancestor of shinobi, a divine state is gifted, touching the principles of all creation, commanding all things in nature
The qualities for obtaining this technique are strict studying and using a small gist in chakra kneading sensibility. An iron faith to face any hardship and the guts to never give up. Furthermore, the returning incarnation and fate's guidance ― this power is granted by the Sage of Six Paths only to someone who holds those. Those who activate the technique come to understand the flow of all life, gain a deep insight at the world's origins and are able to apply it on interacting allies without changing the way of things. This technique isn't something shinobi choose to experience. It is a technique that chooses shinobi.
➡ Kicking the "Truth-Seeking Ball"! Exceeding the Kurama Mode, a feat accomplished by a huge chakra.
⬅The reaction speed is not less than equal to Madara, who had turned into the Ten-Tails' jinchuriki. The sensing ability has also risen!!
The Second Caption says
➡ Kicking the "Truth-Seeking Ball"! Exceeding the Kurama Mode, a feat accomplished by a huge chakra.
Which means one thing, Naruto was already in SPSM even before use his cloak, so we can say that this mode:
Is Six Paths Sage Mode as well but is lacking the chakra cloak.
So when Naruto was fighting against Momo he was indeed using his Six Paths Sage Mode since his eyes were lacking the red pigmentation around, and yes, we already saw Naruto using his Red Pigmentation(Normal Sage Mode) as Hokage.
The only different thing is that Naruto is lacking the Magatamas behind his Cloak, the only thing that I can think is that Naruto is only using Kurama's Yin Yang Chakra instead of use the other Bijuu's Chakra in conjuction, in Shikamaru's Light Novel he was said to be a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails similar to Juubito which would explain why he had the Truth Seeking Orbs and the Magatamas.
So when can say that the Magatamas behind his back were only present because he was a kind of a Juubi Jinchuuriki but he was using just small fragments from the Bijuu's Chakra and with Hagoromo's Chakra he managed to kind of transform this into a mode(Combining Kurama Mode + 8 Bijuu's Small chakra fragments) without necessarily become a Jinchuuriki since we already know that he had the Bijuu's Chakra and was only lacking Shukaku and Gyuki's Chakra.
So to elaborate, Naruto in the War was using the same mode that he used against Momo and Shin, the only difference is that he was using the other Bijuu's Chakra in conjuction, which would explain why his cloak possess a Rinnegan and the Magatamas just like the Juubi Jinchuuriki.
The Databook also says that when someone becomes a Juubi Jinchuuriki they manifest Truth Seeking Orbs.
Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai - Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal
No rank, no range, supplementary
Users: Obito Uchiha, Madara Uchiha
Using one's own body as a yorishiro
Not sublimating into a perfect being
⬇ The moment before he was discarded by Madara, Obito feigned the "Samsara of Heavenly Life" and formed the seals for the "Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal".
This technique let's the user possess the power of a jinchuriki by taking in the ten bodies of all tailed beasts. However, with one body already being hard to control, it's almost impossible to bring them all under one's control. This inevitably results in the collapse of the user's ego. However, very rarely, only one person that possessed innate suitability and acquired mental strength, is allowed to wield a world-shaking power, feared even as the "Nation-Building God"!
➡ Condensed and drawn into the body of the technique's user, the gathered tailed beasts make the true power bloom.
⬆ Obtaining the power of the ten bodies of the tailed beasts is the same as owning the power of the Sage of Six Paths. It's also accompanied by black orbs that are similar to the "Tailed Beast Ball".
So after everything, I think is safe to say that he still possess the SPSM but for some reason is not using the other Bijuu's Chakra.
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#5
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JOVIOLMA
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According to Shikamaru's Light Novel he likely still can use it.
The Nine Tails was still living inside Naruto. There were also remnants of the other 8 bijuu inside him as well. In that way, you could say he was a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails. In the last war, Obito had become a human pillar for the Ten Tails and gained chakra rivalling that of the Sage of the Six Paths. Naruto, who’d taken the bijuu into him as well, had some of the Sage’s power even now.
According to the Fourth Databook, the Six Paths Sage Mode is something that is give directly from Hagoromo, so is kind of unlikely that he would lost his Transformation for no reason, Sasuke's Rinnegan also comes from Hagoromo and he still having it until today.
Six Paths Sage Mode
Ninjutsu, Senjutsu - Sage of Six Paths Mode
No rank, no range, offensive, defensive, supplementary
Users: Naruto Uzumaki
⬅ The floating ability used by the Sage of Six Paths is also almost mastered unconsciously by this technique's user.
From the ancestor of shinobi, a divine state is gifted, touching the principles of all creation, commanding all things in nature
The qualities for obtaining this technique are strict studying and using a small gist in chakra kneading sensibility. An iron faith to face any hardship and the guts to never give up. Furthermore, the returning incarnation and fate's guidance ― this power is granted by the Sage of Six Paths only to someone who holds those. Those who activate the technique come to understand the flow of all life, gain a deep insight at the world's origins and are able to apply it on interacting allies without changing the way of things. This technique isn't something shinobi choose to experience. It is a technique that chooses shinobi.
➡ Kicking the "Truth-Seeking Ball"! Exceeding the Kurama Mode, a feat accomplished by a huge chakra.
⬅The reaction speed is not less than equal to Madara, who had turned into the Ten-Tails' jinchuriki. The sensing ability has also risen!!
The Second Caption says
➡ Kicking the "Truth-Seeking Ball"! Exceeding the Kurama Mode, a feat accomplished by a huge chakra.
Which means one thing, Naruto was already in SPSM even before use his cloak, so we can say that this mode:
Is Six Paths Sage Mode as well but is lacking the chakra cloak.
So when Naruto was fighting against Momo he was indeed using his Six Paths Sage Mode since his eyes were lacking the red pigmentation around, and yes, we already saw Naruto using his Red Pigmentation(Normal Sage Mode) as Hokage.
The only different thing is that Naruto is lacking the Magatamas behind his Cloak, the only thing that I can think is that Naruto is only using Kurama's Yin Yang Chakra instead of use the other Bijuu's Chakra in conjuction, in Shikamaru's Light Novel he was said to be a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails similar to Juubito which would explain why he had the Truth Seeking Orbs and the Magatamas.
So when can say that the Magatamas behind his back were only present because he was a kind of a Juubi Jinchuuriki but he was using just small fragments from the Bijuu's Chakra and with Hagoromo's Chakra he managed to kind of transform this into a mode(Combining Kurama Mode + 8 Bijuu's Small chakra fragments) without necessarily become a Jinchuuriki since we already know that he had the Bijuu's Chakra and was only lacking Shukaku and Gyuki's Chakra.
So to elaborate, Naruto in the War was using the same mode that he used against Momo and Shin, the only difference is that he was using the other Bijuu's Chakra in conjuction, which would explain why his cloak possess a Rinnegan and the Magatamas just like the Juubi Jinchuuriki.
The Databook also says that when someone becomes a Juubi Jinchuuriki they manifest Truth Seeking Orbs.
Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai - Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal
No rank, no range, supplementary
Users: Obito Uchiha, Madara Uchiha
Using one's own body as a yorishiro
Not sublimating into a perfect being
⬇ The moment before he was discarded by Madara, Obito feigned the "Samsara of Heavenly Life" and formed the seals for the "Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal".
This technique let's the user possess the power of a jinchuriki by taking in the ten bodies of all tailed beasts. However, with one body already being hard to control, it's almost impossible to bring them all under one's control. This inevitably results in the collapse of the user's ego. However, very rarely, only one person that possessed innate suitability and acquired mental strength, is allowed to wield a world-shaking power, feared even as the "Nation-Building God"!
➡ Condensed and drawn into the body of the technique's user, the gathered tailed beasts make the true power bloom.
⬆ Obtaining the power of the ten bodies of the tailed beasts is the same as owning the power of the Sage of Six Paths. It's also accompanied by black orbs that are similar to the "Tailed Beast Ball".
So after everything, I think is safe to say that he still possess the SPSM but for some reason is not using the other Bijuu's Chakra.
#5
Edited by
JOVIOLMA
(3228 posts)
- 1 month, 5 days ago
- Show Bio
According to Shikamaru's Light Novel he likely still can use it.
The Nine Tails was still living inside Naruto. There were also remnants of the other 8 bijuu inside him as well. In that way, you could say he was a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails. In the last war, Obito had become a human pillar for the Ten Tails and gained chakra rivalling that of the Sage of the Six Paths. Naruto, who’d taken the bijuu into him as well, had some of the Sage’s power even now.
According to the Fourth Databook, the Six Paths Sage Mode is something that is give directly from Hagoromo, so is kind of unlikely that he would lost his Transformation for no reason, Sasuke's Rinnegan also comes from Hagoromo and he still having it until today.
Six Paths Sage Mode
Ninjutsu, Senjutsu - Sage of Six Paths Mode
No rank, no range, offensive, defensive, supplementary
Users: Naruto Uzumaki
⬅ The floating ability used by the Sage of Six Paths is also almost mastered unconsciously by this technique's user.
From the ancestor of shinobi, a divine state is gifted, touching the principles of all creation, commanding all things in nature
The qualities for obtaining this technique are strict studying and using a small gist in chakra kneading sensibility. An iron faith to face any hardship and the guts to never give up. Furthermore, the returning incarnation and fate's guidance ― this power is granted by the Sage of Six Paths only to someone who holds those. Those who activate the technique come to understand the flow of all life, gain a deep insight at the world's origins and are able to apply it on interacting allies without changing the way of things. This technique isn't something shinobi choose to experience. It is a technique that chooses shinobi.
➡ Kicking the "Truth-Seeking Ball"! Exceeding the Kurama Mode, a feat accomplished by a huge chakra.
⬅The reaction speed is not less than equal to Madara, who had turned into the Ten-Tails' jinchuriki. The sensing ability has also risen!!
The Second Caption says
➡ Kicking the "Truth-Seeking Ball"! Exceeding the Kurama Mode, a feat accomplished by a huge chakra.
Which means one thing, Naruto was already in SPSM even before use his cloak, so we can say that this mode:
Is Six Paths Sage Mode as well but is lacking the chakra cloak.
So when Naruto was fighting against Momo he was indeed using his Six Paths Sage Mode since his eyes were lacking the red pigmentation around, and yes, we already saw Naruto using his Red Pigmentation(Normal Sage Mode) as Hokage.
The only different thing is that Naruto is lacking the Magatamas behind his Cloak, the only thing that I can think is that Naruto is only using Kurama's Yin Yang Chakra instead of use the other Bijuu's Chakra in conjuction, in Shikamaru's Light Novel he was said to be a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails similar to Juubito which would explain why he had the Truth Seeking Orbs and the Magatamas.
So when can say that the Magatamas behind his back were only present because he was a kind of a Juubi Jinchuuriki but he was using just small fragments from the Bijuu's Chakra and with Hagoromo's Chakra he managed to kind of transform this into a mode(Combining Kurama Mode + 8 Bijuu's Small chakra fragments) without necessarily become a Jinchuuriki since we already know that he had the Bijuu's Chakra and was only lacking Shukaku and Gyuki's Chakra.
So to elaborate, Naruto in the War was using the same mode that he used against Momo and Shin, the only difference is that he was using the other Bijuu's Chakra in conjuction, which would explain why his cloak possess a Rinnegan and the Magatamas just like the Juubi Jinchuuriki.
The Databook also says that when someone becomes a Juubi Jinchuuriki they manifest Truth Seeking Orbs.
Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai - Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal
No rank, no range, supplementary
Users: Obito Uchiha, Madara Uchiha
Using one's own body as a yorishiro
Not sublimating into a perfect being
⬇ The moment before he was discarded by Madara, Obito feigned the "Samsara of Heavenly Life" and formed the seals for the "Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal".
This technique let's the user possess the power of a jinchuriki by taking in the ten bodies of all tailed beasts. However, with one body already being hard to control, it's almost impossible to bring them all under one's control. This inevitably results in the collapse of the user's ego. However, very rarely, only one person that possessed innate suitability and acquired mental strength, is allowed to wield a world-shaking power, feared even as the "Nation-Building God"!
➡ Condensed and drawn into the body of the technique's user, the gathered tailed beasts make the true power bloom.
⬆ Obtaining the power of the ten bodies of the tailed beasts is the same as owning the power of the Sage of Six Paths. It's also accompanied by black orbs that are similar to the "Tailed Beast Ball".
So after everything, I think is safe to say that he still possess the SPSM but for some reason is not using the other Bijuu's Chakra.
#5
Edited by
JOVIOLMA
(3228 posts)
- 1 month, 5 days ago
- Show Bio
According to Shikamaru's Light Novel he likely still can use it.
The Nine Tails was still living inside Naruto. There were also remnants of the other 8 bijuu inside him as well. In that way, you could say he was a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails. In the last war, Obito had become a human pillar for the Ten Tails and gained chakra rivalling that of the Sage of the Six Paths. Naruto, who’d taken the bijuu into him as well, had some of the Sage’s power even now.
According to the Fourth Databook, the Six Paths Sage Mode is something that is give directly from Hagoromo, so is kind of unlikely that he would lost his Transformation for no reason, Sasuke's Rinnegan also comes from Hagoromo and he still having it until today.
Six Paths Sage Mode
Ninjutsu, Senjutsu - Sage of Six Paths Mode
No rank, no range, offensive, defensive, supplementary
Users: Naruto Uzumaki
⬅ The floating ability used by the Sage of Six Paths is also almost mastered unconsciously by this technique's user.
From the ancestor of shinobi, a divine state is gifted, touching the principles of all creation, commanding all things in nature
The qualities for obtaining this technique are strict studying and using a small gist in chakra kneading sensibility. An iron faith to face any hardship and the guts to never give up. Furthermore, the returning incarnation and fate's guidance ― this power is granted by the Sage of Six Paths only to someone who holds those. Those who activate the technique come to understand the flow of all life, gain a deep insight at the world's origins and are able to apply it on interacting allies without changing the way of things. This technique isn't something shinobi choose to experience. It is a technique that chooses shinobi.
➡ Kicking the "Truth-Seeking Ball"! Exceeding the Kurama Mode, a feat accomplished by a huge chakra.
⬅The reaction speed is not less than equal to Madara, who had turned into the Ten-Tails' jinchuriki. The sensing ability has also risen!!
The Second Caption says
➡ Kicking the "Truth-Seeking Ball"! Exceeding the Kurama Mode, a feat accomplished by a huge chakra.
Which means one thing, Naruto was already in SPSM even before use his cloak, so we can say that this mode:
Is Six Paths Sage Mode as well but is lacking the chakra cloak.
So when Naruto was fighting against Momo he was indeed using his Six Paths Sage Mode since his eyes were lacking the red pigmentation around, and yes, we already saw Naruto using his Red Pigmentation(Normal Sage Mode) as Hokage.
The only different thing is that Naruto is lacking the Magatamas behind his Cloak, the only thing that I can think is that Naruto is only using Kurama's Yin Yang Chakra instead of use the other Bijuu's Chakra in conjuction, in Shikamaru's Light Novel he was said to be a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails similar to Juubito which would explain why he had the Truth Seeking Orbs and the Magatamas.
So when can say that the Magatamas behind his back were only present because he was a kind of a Juubi Jinchuuriki but he was using just small fragments from the Bijuu's Chakra and with Hagoromo's Chakra he managed to kind of transform this into a mode(Combining Kurama Mode + 8 Bijuu's Small chakra fragments) without necessarily become a Jinchuuriki since we already know that he had the Bijuu's Chakra and was only lacking Shukaku and Gyuki's Chakra.
So to elaborate, Naruto in the War was using the same mode that he used against Momo and Shin, the only difference is that he was using the other Bijuu's Chakra in conjuction, which would explain why his cloak possess a Rinnegan and the Magatamas just like the Juubi Jinchuuriki.
The Databook also says that when someone becomes a Juubi Jinchuuriki they manifest Truth Seeking Orbs.
Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai - Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal
No rank, no range, supplementary
Users: Obito Uchiha, Madara Uchiha
Using one's own body as a yorishiro
Not sublimating into a perfect being
⬇ The moment before he was discarded by Madara, Obito feigned the "Samsara of Heavenly Life" and formed the seals for the "Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal".
This technique let's the user possess the power of a jinchuriki by taking in the ten bodies of all tailed beasts. However, with one body already being hard to control, it's almost impossible to bring them all under one's control. This inevitably results in the collapse of the user's ego. However, very rarely, only one person that possessed innate suitability and acquired mental strength, is allowed to wield a world-shaking power, feared even as the "Nation-Building God"!
➡ Condensed and drawn into the body of the technique's user, the gathered tailed beasts make the true power bloom.
⬆ Obtaining the power of the ten bodies of the tailed beasts is the same as owning the power of the Sage of Six Paths. It's also accompanied by black orbs that are similar to the "Tailed Beast Ball".
So after everything, I think is safe to say that he still possess the SPSM but for some reason is not using the other Bijuu's Chakra.
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#6
Posted by
JOVIOLMA
(3228 posts)
- 1 month, 5 days ago
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@batmanplusjay ^^^^ Thoughts ?
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#6
Posted by
JOVIOLMA
(3228 posts)
- 1 month, 5 days ago
- Show Bio
@batmanplusjay ^^^^ Thoughts ?
#6
Posted by
JOVIOLMA
(3228 posts)
- 1 month, 5 days ago
- Show Bio
@batmanplusjay ^^^^ Thoughts ?
#6
Posted by
JOVIOLMA
(3228 posts)
- 1 month, 5 days ago
- Show Bio
@batmanplusjay ^^^^ Thoughts ?
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#7
Posted by
BatmanPlusJay
(2258 posts)
- 1 month, 5 days ago
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@joviolma: I agree. He doesn't even communicate with the other bijuu, when Momoshiki damn near killed killer bee and the 8 tails, Naruto was completely unaware. But he has the eyes, and he flies. Those two things alone confirm he has spsm. And he has the other bijuu chakra as you proved, he just doesn't keep in contact often.
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#7
Posted by
BatmanPlusJay
(2258 posts)
- 1 month, 5 days ago
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@joviolma: I agree. He doesn't even communicate with the other bijuu, when Momoshiki damn near killed killer bee and the 8 tails, Naruto was completely unaware. But he has the eyes, and he flies. Those two things alone confirm he has spsm. And he has the other bijuu chakra as you proved, he just doesn't keep in contact often.
#7
Posted by
BatmanPlusJay
(2258 posts)
- 1 month, 5 days ago
- Show Bio
@joviolma: I agree. He doesn't even communicate with the other bijuu, when Momoshiki damn near killed killer bee and the 8 tails, Naruto was completely unaware. But he has the eyes, and he flies. Those two things alone confirm he has spsm. And he has the other bijuu chakra as you proved, he just doesn't keep in contact often.
#7
Posted by
BatmanPlusJay
(2258 posts)
- 1 month, 5 days ago
- Show Bio
@joviolma: I agree. He doesn't even communicate with the other bijuu, when Momoshiki damn near killed killer bee and the 8 tails, Naruto was completely unaware. But he has the eyes, and he flies. Those two things alone confirm he has spsm. And he has the other bijuu chakra as you proved, he just doesn't keep in contact often.
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#8
Posted by
Grinningf0x
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@joviolma: wow thnx for the informative
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#8
Posted by
Grinningf0x
(1321 posts)
- 1 month, 5 days ago
- Show Bio
@joviolma: wow thnx for the informative
#8
Posted by
Grinningf0x
(1321 posts)
- 1 month, 5 days ago
- Show Bio
@joviolma: wow thnx for the informative
#8
Posted by
Grinningf0x
(1321 posts)
- 1 month, 5 days ago
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@joviolma: wow thnx for the informative
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#9
Posted by
ValorKnight
(11048 posts)
- 1 month, 6 days ago
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Why wouldn't he?
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#9
Posted by
ValorKnight
(11048 posts)
- 1 month, 6 days ago
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Why wouldn't he?
#9
Posted by
ValorKnight
(11048 posts)
- 1 month, 6 days ago
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Why wouldn't he?
#9
Posted by
ValorKnight
(11048 posts)
- 1 month, 6 days ago
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Why wouldn't he?
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#10
Posted by
AlexTheBoss
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I would assume so
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#10
Posted by
AlexTheBoss
(13960 posts)
- 1 month, 5 days ago
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I would assume so
#10
Posted by
AlexTheBoss
(13960 posts)
- 1 month, 5 days ago
- Show Bio
I would assume so
#10
Posted by
AlexTheBoss
(13960 posts)
- 1 month, 5 days ago
- Show Bio
I would assume so
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