DOCTOR STRANGE AND THE SORCERERS SUPREME #5

(W) Robbie Thompson (A) Nathan Stockman (CA) Javier Rodriguez

• After their devastating first mission, the surviving Sorcerers Supreme must regroup.

• Plus: What happened when Doctor Strange first met Isaac Newton?

• Guest-starring the pre-INFAMOUS IRON MAN Doctor Doom!

Rated T+

DEC161013 In Shops: Feb 08, 2017 SRP: $3.99

What is Newton even doing there?

@adamtrmm: Well, real-life Newton was an Alchemist. He wrote more stuff on the Bible and theology in general rather than math and physics. The rest (comic-lore) is a result from Hickman's (still not finished) SHIELD. Had I known Newton was a character in the book when the first solicits hit, I'd have picked it up, actually.

@darthkostis:

Well, from what I remember of Hickman's Shield, he was more of a power hungry Machiavellian cult leader rather than explorer and performer himself, correct me if I'm wrong. Was this even a thing for him there?

I'm talking about Hick-ton of course.

@adamtrmm: Well, he was part of the SHIELD, and he wanted to keep being in control of it. The series never finished, so we never got a proper explaination. The armor is from that mini though. Either way, it's not too out of character. Just because he wanted to be in control doesn't necesssrily contradict the idea that he truly cared about protecting the world. And he did end up betraying the team in the previous issue. This looks like it'll give us some backstory, so I guess we'll see.

Could not get into this book. Loved the Javier Rodriguez art, but didn't care about the story or its characters.

@darthkostis:

I just didn't remember anything not only magical, but even slightly mystical. It was all science there from the top of my head, over the top, nonsensical science that couldn't possibly exist, but still one lol

@adamtrmm: I guess it mostly stems from the fact that the real Newton dabbled in such topics, so when you mix a secret society with all that, it makes sense for him to have a connection with magic. Besides, "magic", "science", they're one and the same, moreso in comic books. Who's to say a spell isn't just a formula with different variables? We've seen in books that there are tomes, symbols and laws. Magic has certain rules and works in a certain way. And hell, the first Order of the SHIELD had a Moon Knight amongst their ranks. Most Hickman stories mix science and magic, resulting in a very high-end comic balance where they're one and the same.

This book has been good so far gonna have to pick this up

@darthkostis:

Yes and no, but not in a classic MU. Magic has its own independent energies and rules that aren't parts of 4 fundamental forces and other laws of nature, and yet can affect them as well. There's strong connection between elements, other dimensions, souls and magic, but then again, different rules and different forces as the medium. Seriously though the concept is just as much an anachronism as is Silver Age generalization of "cosmic energy". The concept of magic needs some serious exploration by a creative mind, the repercussions, division and mechanics of it, but then it won't matter because comes someone like Bendis, handwaves it and voila there's nonsense happening because "it's magic!". (HoM initially was supposed to be "just magic").

Well, there also stood En Sabah Nur and it made zero to no sense at all, because "Ozymandias" who I guess was supposed to be Ramses II in the Rise of Apoc mini existed a roughly millennium after Imhotep. Hickman right there just appealed to the "it's all connected" bigger picture, which I appreciate, but he totally didn't bother with a research. I also just remembered that he retconned Galactus' first arrival to Earth and him being pushed away by some DaVincian wooden uber deus ex machina, I mean, which brings us back to our very much original discussion :p

@adamtrmm:

Sure, there are differences, but they're rather minimal in my opinion. As for the Magic-Corner, Marvel couldn't give two sh!ts about it. All they're interested now are teen books with the same messages repeated over and over again. No different genres, no forward-thinking ideas, just the same things, over and over. Cosmic is a mess, Supernatural is nonexistent, the only corner getting some attention is the Street one.

As for SHIELD itself, it should've been a regular ongoing like his Secret Warriors. It had some great elements, but the fact that it was a maxi disguised as a mini kinda hurt the story.

@darthkostis:

Agreed. You would guess having Strange returning to prominence could be a modern anchor for this corner, but from what I hear Strange solo isn't really popular among hardcore fans. The whole "Death of magic" screamed MCU (since there's "no magic") + Godbutcher to me. It sells good though, so who cares right? After Civil War, IvX that give me nothing but cognitive dissonance and completely uninspired relaunch I mean Ressurexion of X-books, I may be reaching the point where I'm done with Marvel until they get their shit together.

With Shield, expecting anything "mini" from Hickman is a mistake by design lol how did he say that? He needed additional 100 pages to really complete Secret Wars haha he's all about long expos and multivariate execution.

@adamtrmm: From what I gather, this is the "magic" Marvel wants. Lots of people pitched a Strange series, but Alonso waited until he found the "right" one. Meaning the one that fit into his view of the magic corner of the MU (see "nonexistent"). The solo does well, even of old fans like me hate it, but I don't know if that's good or bad at this point. Same goes for Black Panther (even though that's even more dreadful). As for the X-Line, I was interested in Weapon X, but I'm skipping it for the time being. Generally, I'm down to 4 Marvel titles: Deadpool (which I'm close to dropping with all theextra-sized issues every other month), Moon Knight (which is ending with #14), Doctor Strange & Infamous Iron Man (both of which I'm keeping due to the characters themselves, and not the books).

But yeah, nothing Hickman writes is ever a "mini". Sometimes that's good, sometimes that's bad, but at least there's always stuff to mine out of every story of his, later down the road.

@darthkostis:

Which is sad because Marvel Magic is really incredible. Not this wink wink nudge nudge "magic or....?", but the actual one with books, extradimensions and much, much, much more. About books that I read, Vision was pretty amazing, I read Ultimates on inertia, I'm not really enjoying it, but it deals with the things I like, but yeah, the only book I'm still enjoying is Uncanny X-men. Bunn disappoints with rushed endings, but still it's a vastly superior book with good deal of continuity and strong drive. Hell, when a writer sells on you a concept you were 100% opposed to (Inverted Creed) you know he does something right.

Totally, you might not love the entirety of his story, but you will find something that is interesting about it. I still want my Thor & Hyperion book!

@adamtrmm: There are usually two ways to go with magic: Rules, logic and order, or just complete anarchy, skulls, ripped guts, all that. The former makes for better and more cerebral stories, the latter makes for better horror. My 2 cents on it is that something like the MCU explaination should be the truth, and the all the horror cliches are just the sick minds of the amatuers and charlatans who attempt to "learn" magic. It depends on each universe though. If you make everything in the Sandman universe perfectly "logical", you loose a big part of what makes it special. Whereas in a Marvel book, where the cosmic and supernatural beings are one and the same, you can add a bit of "order". I'm not saying that magic should just be CB science with different symbols, but it'd make a tad more sense if the "rituals" were mostly "cosmetic".

@darthkostis:

Hm, while I found Strange movie to be a formulaic MCU typicality, I did like their approach (even though pretty terribly explained and explored) with what magic is supposed to be. Spiritual energies directed towards certain layers of existence in certain ways and all, that worked pretty well for me. But in regular comic U, I don't feel like these very limiting restrictions are needed, of course there must be restrictions overall, otherwise, boring ass mcGuffins is the result, but to me from chaos magic and books of Vishanti, to Limbo and Shuma Gorath, that's all good as long as the writer can contextualize and work it through in a way other ones can make scifi go. That's how I see that at least. Once again, a Hickman example (which already has become a pattern in our discussion lol), his magic is intriguing and cryptic, but way too McGuffin-y and out of blue. Something in between might be perfect.

@adamtrmm: I liked the flick the lot. It was a tad too "safe", but it was an origin story, and it followed the original tale very closely. That's why the sequel is almost always better. If Nighmare and Shuma are brought into the mix, it'll be much better I reckon.

As for teh magic itself, I want it to be cryptic and dangerous, but I don't think every "supernatural" book should be a "horror" one, if that makes sense. Magic in and of itself is creepy, but it shouldn't necessarilly be like something out of Resident Evil or Manhunt. Something like the more Lovecraft's stories with their creepy undertones and somber atmospheres should work. BBC's "Taboo" has a nice "feel", which makes it both scary, but not on the level of a straight-up horror flick. The implications of such "forces" should be more important than jumpscares, scary demons and the like. At least IMO.

@darthkostis:

I dunno man, it felt too much like "yet another Marvel movie" to me, some good elements of new were there, sure, as that's exactly what it aimed for, but execution wasn't that good from what I remember. I even forgot all my issues with it which shows how impartial I came out. I did love Mikkelsen's nihilistic bravado, that I remember lol I will watch it again probably to be sure though.

Well, like I said, as long as the author knows what he does and has a creative mind, mysticism in all kinds of aspects can totally work. I tend to like them darker shades, but once again, it all depends on execution. It's too late at night to think of examples though lol but nice reminder of Manhunt, man I never was a real gamer, but the first one I played like hell. Also, Taboo. I'm waiting till it's finished and when I'm past this crappy examination period.

@adamtrmm: It's one of the best MCU origin movies. Not as good as IM, but better than Thor, Hulk & Cap.

I haven't touched a game in...what, 2.5 years now? Dunno why, but they just don't make them like they used to. I'll get a PS4 for Spider-Man, GoW and the like sometime, but until then... eh. As for Taboo, it's pretty great thus far. Eps 2 & 3 were kinda slow, but 4 was great.

I'm close to finishing my exam period and yeah, I feel you. Chem, Physics, Programming, Labs, Analytical Geometry & Linear Algebra, all the good stuff...

@darthkostis:

Thor and FA are simply laughable, there were some good moments mainly thanks to entourage and actors, but as a whole? Horrendous. Hulk was ok for its time, simplistic af, but at least watchable. Strange felt inconsistent to me, all these pop references are so "look we're so mainstream!" bull, Strange's flip flops also annoyed me, but like I said I will rewatch it again, because I can't have a detailed answer right now.

Neither did I, I don't even remember what was the last game I played. There are some dope trailers on youtube, I watch them when bored and desperate for some good concepts. Taboo is totally on my list, Incorporated also looks interesting, but I'm ready to be disappointed. I also keep hearing good things about Gomorrah, so yeah, there's plenty of stuff to not get bored with.

Most of these I'll be busy with in the next semester, as of now it's not much, but stuff I really dislike so it's even harder, because I'm inclined to ignore the studies until the exams are about to bite me in the ass lol

@adamtrmm:

It could've been better, but it's amongst the best origin stories. Compared to SKWAD, it's Oscar Material.

I tried building a gaming PC a while back, but it's become outdated now, and I don't game enough to upgrade it. I'll probably hold out until Insomniac's Spider-Man is released and get a PS4. That plus the other exclusives, and the upcoming Marvel games (I wish Eidos was making an X-Men game and not a GotG one though).

Universities here are... strange, for a lack of a better word, so I have around 6 different subjects n each "semester" (more like 3 months...). It's one hell of a tough road studying Physics in my part of the world. I just hope it's worth it in the end...

@darthkostis:

lol you brought on a heaviest artillery argument with this one, hard to argue with this.

Man I'm a professional time killer, if I start gaming again, I'll become a total caricature so I should avoid that by all means necessary! Nah, seriously, there are some games I really want to play, and since I have the same outdated PC problem, I'm still not sure if I want to invest into a game console just for like 3 or 4 games en masse.

Don't tell me about that, it's same shit, 3 months of studies with 1 month exam period, 4-8 subjects depending on timetable, and there's also work in between. I know exactly what you mean. We'll find out in the end right? lol

@adamtrmm:

Yeah, that's a problem as well. But eh, a PS4 costs like 250$ now, 280$ in bundles. By the time GoW, SM and the like have been released, it'll be closer to 200-something. It's certainly cheaper than upgrading a whole rig.

Exactly that. And a syllabus of 600+ pages in each subject to boot.

@darthkostis:

In my case, PC updating is an inevitability at this point, I postponed it as much as I could but it's my tin is just embarrassing at this point, with the next salary I already know what on a good couple of $ is going to be spent. Either that or a nice laptop.

@adamtrmm: I built mine back in 2015, so I'm still good. Personally I wouldn't get a laptop. The abillity to upgrade is important, and with a laptop you are denied that choice. A desktop is better IMO. I can see the appeal of a laptop, but I'd just get a small notebook for basic tasks while travelling.

@darthkostis:

Yeah, PC has a special place in my heart, but it's nice to have a laptop for the studies, mobility and stuff. Some heavy brooding and deep meditation will be required for such a crucial decision :p

I have a small note, it's nice in the beginning until cash overwhelms it and you're getting stuck in a loop of formatting it every second Tuesday. Totally unequipped for the studies for sure.

@adamtrmm: A laptop has its uses, but I'd only go for one if it's really crucial. Here we don't use them in class, and I'm not moving a lot, so my "workstation" is stationary. A laptop is good for vacations and whatnot, but eh, a desktop is a better tool.

This book has been surprisingly great.