bloodlusted

Old Ben Kenobi. Doesn't even need the high ground.

If it wasn't already Obvious, Anakin can.

Sheev

Luke Skywalker, Yoda, Emperor Palpatine, Batman.

Quite some people. Darth Sidious (ROTS full out or further), Yoda (ROTS), Luke Skywalker (Grandmaster), Abeloth, The Son, The Daughter, The Father. Probably more, but these are the ones that pop into my head all of a sudden.

Can anybody actually provide the evidence that Palpatine let Sidious win? Cause I have seen nothing that doesn't amount to fan theories.

If not I don't see how people can say Sidious beats him when he seemed to have lost fair and square.

LOL

Batman ofc

@crushyourenemies: Yeah seems to be a lot of that going around rather than, "Yep, check this out *link of proof*"

@kingcrimson: Well Sidious is notorious for messing with people. He proved to Maul and Savage that he could crush them like bugs if he wanted to when he encountered them on Mandalore, but still chose to engage them in lightsaber combat. In doing so I believe he was giving them hope just so he could take it away from them. He also feigned weakness against Starkiller after their encounter on the Death Star. I firmly believe he feigned weakness against Windu to turn Anakin to the darkside.

I used to think Windu beat him fair and square, but after rewatching the movie multiple times and learning more about Sidious I definitely don't think that's the case anymore. The way I see it he managed to take out 3 of the Jedi Order's best fighters in a matter of seconds, then he presses the assault on Windu to force him into a different room, then he goes on the defensive and is directed to the window, then he conveniently gets his lightsaber kicked out of his hand right before Anakin walks in. It's very likely he sensed or just knew Anakin would come to his "rescue" (he seemed to be very close to Anakin). All Anakin sees is a room with no dead jedi in it and a defenseless old chancellor who warned Anakin the Jedi would take over about to be killed by a Jedi who Anakin has always been at odds with (not to mention jedi are not supposed to kill unarmed opponents). Sidious could also blame the lightning barrage that was deflected back at him as proof to the Senate that the Jedi tried to kill him.

RotS Sidious level characters and up.

@kingcrimson: Movie - Sidious holds a lightsaber to Mace's chest for a solid few seconds choosing not to end his life so that he can play the victim in front of Anakin.

Novel - Sidious is capable of blowing the lightsaber out of Mace's hand at any time and keeps tabs on Anakin's presence so he can time his arrival.

Out of Universe - Multiple quotes confirm he was exaggerating his vulnerability.

@chubbs: I appreciate your opinion mate, I don't think the idea is at all far fetched, but that's what I mean about fan theories. People seem to be so certain and I just want to know if there is any concrete proof.

@ordeith:

Movie - that's not sufficient enough evidence that he lets him win. He points his saber at him mid-battle with no discernible advantage. How does that mean he could of killed him whenever he pleased? In fact when he lunges from that position Mace deflects his strike. It would be different if he was pointing his saber at his chest when he was defenceless on the floor.

Novel - Do you have the quote? That's what I wanted in the way of proof.

Out of Universe - got any of the quotes? I'd like to see them.

Darth Plagueis, Darth Sidious, Yoda, Luke Skywalker, Sorasu Taalon etc.

@kingcrimson: What are you talking about? Of course it is. He has Mace at his mercy yet chooses to do nothing waiting for Anakin to arrive instead.

"He points his saber at him mid-battle with no discernible advantage."

Sorry, but this statement is contradictory. If Sidious has his lightsaber at Mace's chest and Mace's hands are splayed to the side with his saber lowered Sidious is definitely at a discernible advantage.

"How does that mean he could of killed him whenever he pleased?"

Because literally the only thing he had to do to kill Mace was lean forward several inches to impale him.

"In fact when he lunges from that position Mace deflects his strike. It would be different if he was pointing his saber at his chest when he was defenceless on the floor."

Wrong again. Mace moves before Sidious.

"Novel - Do you have the quote? That's what I wanted in the way of proof."

Mace is stated to be unable to defend against Sidious's lightning with his lightsaber being slowly bent back torwards him. If Sidious had opened the fight in this way there would be nothing Mace could have done to stop it.

"Now Anakin was at Mace's shoulder. Palpatine still made no move to defend himself from Skywalker; instead he ramped up the lightning bursting from his hands, bending the fountain of Mace's blade back toward the Korun Master's face. Palpatine's eyes glowed with power, casting a yellow glare that burned back the rain from around them. "He is a traitor, Anakin. Destroy him." "You're the chosen one, Anakin," Mace said, his voice going thin with strain. This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade. "Take him. It's your destiny." Mace's blade bent so close to his face that he was choking on ozone. "Anakin, he's too strong for me—" - Revenge of the Sith.

The quote for Sidious keeping tabs on Anakin's location.

"The Coruscant nightfall was spreading through the galaxy. The darkness in the Force was no hindrance to the shadow in the Chancellor's office; it was the darkness. Wherever darkness dwelled, the shadow could send perception. In the night, the shadow felt the boy's anguish, and it was good." - Revenge of the Sith.

You can find the out of universe quotes in this thread.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/silver2467/blog/mace-windu-vs-darth-sidious-what-really-happened-r/77247/

^^^This

Any Naruto character at Itachi's level or higher.

@crushyourenemies: https://youtu.be/s2-cDFfhppk

copy that

edit; although i voted for both sides

Not Sidious, that's for sure.

Kind of like ILS was saying awhile back I don't think Windu literally reflects the darkside of his opponents. He channels his own fury into a weapon of the light, just like darksiders like Sidious channels their rage into weapons of the dark.

With that said it depends. CW Mace has a good number of Jedi/Sith who could beat him. Count Dooku splits. KF Vader, Darth Tenebrous, Darth Plagueis, Darth Sidious, and Yoda could all defeat him pretty decisively.

ROTS Mace splits with Sidious and loses to Yoda. Though I haven't read the NJO series apparently GM Luke is king, so he can probably beat him solidly.