Lizardmen vs Illidari Forces

Lizardmen Forces

Leadership

Supreme Commander - Kroq-Gar

Sub Commanders - Gor-Rok, Chakax, Tehenhauin, Tiktaq'to, Tetto'eko and Nakai

Lizardmen Military Forces

Illidari Forces

Leadership

Supreme Commander - Illidan ( At the end of The Frozen Throne version )

Sub Commanders - Lady Vashj, Kael'thas Sunstrider, Kargath Bladefist, Gruul the Dragonkiller, and High Warlord Naj'entus.

Illidari Military Forces

Rules

• All lore allowed; standard versions for all characters


• No BFR


• Win by destroying the other side


• No Prep


• Random Encounter


• Lizardmen have a map of outland as posted down below along with settlements and cities.


• No outside interference


• No Backstabbing/betraying

Environment - Illidari forces begin at Shadowmoon Valley and Lizardmen start at Zangarmarsh.

Note - The Illidari forces can rally local populations into fighting for them by either forcing them to submit or through alliances and treaties. The Lizardmen forces can enslave local races to help build defenses and so on, but they can't recruit or conscript Outlandish forces.

Additionally, both sides will receive half the amount reinforcements at their province capitals

deactivated-5bb7f2e29af78 marked this as the best answer

Edit: I don't know why but I didn't notice the bit where the Lizardmen start in Zangarmarsh. Still, it doesn't change my scenario too drastically since I had them reaching there anyway.

Interesting. Hellfire will be by far the roughest place for the Lizardmen. They don't do well in dry desert conditions, but if they can make it to Zangarmarsh they'll be in a very strong position. I'll break my post down into different segments to make it easier to read.

Concerns: Without any slann at all I don't know if the Lizardmen have the sheer magical power they need to win this. Tetto'ekko is about on par with a younger slann magically, but he's also very old and can't move much off his palanquin. I don't seem him competing with the likes of Kael'Thas, Lady Vashj, or Illidan himself magically, much less all three, and blood elf mages should be better than skink priests. I am also a little disappointed Oxyotl isn't in here because an ulta elite assassin would have rounded out the Lizardmen leadership far, far better than having Gor-Rok, Chakax, AND Nakai all in the same army. You tripled down on melee lords on foot rather than giving the Lizardmen a more diverse force. Plus Oxyotl would have given them a solid answer to the superiority of the Illidari leadership.

Diplomacy: Skinks don't know the common Azeroth tongue. This isn't an issue in Warcraft where everyone speaks the same language universally, but it is an obstacle in Warhammer. Difficulty in speaking other languages is one of the biggest obstacles when it comes to the Lizardmen making allies. This means it's borderline impossible for the Lizardmen to make any sort of allies on Outland, even with factions that are directly opposed to the Illidari like the Naaru and it's followers in Shattrah. Again, if there was a Slann in the army they could get around this. Naaru and Slann are both extremely old and telepathic and could likely speak as peers to one another. That being said, Tehenhuin might hear the Naaru and think it's the will of Sotek for him to speak with it, but that is pretty iffy.

The Campaign: If they do stop anywhere it's probably Hellfire, right at the start. Their main opposition are fel orcs and felguards who should be comparable to Saurus in physicals and ferocity, as well as larger demons to deal with the kroxigors and various dinosaurs. The fel orc warlocks are probably superior mages to the skink priests, but assuming the Illidari leadership start where we find them in WoW there won't be a mage of Tetto'ekko's stature among them, which gives the ultimate victory in magic to the Lizardmen. Tiktaq'to also secures a dominating air superiority in the area since most of the dragonriders are likely in Shadowmoon and there are no air commanders of his caliber anyway.

If the Lizardmen make it to Zangarmarsh I think they can take this, however. The naga in Illidan's army don't have the numbers to compete with the Lizardmen in the water nor the legs to deal with them on land. The advantage of being an amphibious terrestrial species is being maneuverable in both environments exceptionally well, and the skinks in the Lizardmen army are peerless amphibious ambush fighters. Lady Vashj is also the first high end magic user the Lizardmen will face, but she's more of an archer caster than a pure sorceress. I believe Tetto'ekko can handle her magically long enough for Chakax, Gor-Rok, or Nakai to crush her in melee combat.

After Zangarmarsh is taken Terokkar will be overrun with chameleon skinks, making it virtually impassible by Illidari forces by land. There's nothing they have that can really match chameleon skinks of guerrilla warfare as Kael'Thas didn't come with any elven rangers. Meanwhile Tiktaq'to and his superior airforce will make air travel over Terrokkar impossible as well. They can still make portals, but you can only move so many people through portals at a time. Once Outland has been cut in half the Lizardmen shouldn't have too much of an issue taking Nagrand.

Blade's Edge I am unsure of. That place is a labyrinth of intricate canyons and twisted mountains, and like Hellfire it's incredibly dry. I do see Gruul getting killed by Kroq-Gar and Grymloq who, together, make for one of the greatest melee fighters in the entire Warhammer world. They are also tailor made for killing giant monsters, carnosaurs being known to hunt dragons back home and Kroq-Gar wielding a powerful spear forged by the Old Ones.

I also can't see the Lizardmen actually taking Shadowmoon Valley. It's a wildly inhospitable landscape. Again very dry and with the addition of fel pools and magical storms. It's not a place the Lizardmen can afford to set up a long siege. On top of that Kael'Thas and Illidan are both there with a large number of blood elf warlocks. The Lizardmen are vastly out gunned in magic here, even assuming Tetto'ekko survived up to this point.

Conclusion: The Lizardmen can take Zangarmarsh, Terokkar, and Nagrand and hold it for a very long time, but in order to take Black Citadel they'll need to be able to rally support from local Outland factions, which they can't do without a translator or a Slann. At the same time I doubt Illidan and his forces can get the Lizardmen out of Terokkar and Zangarmarsh. He can't beat them in a guerrilla war, especially not in a heavily forested or swampy environment. I say this ends in a stalemate unless Illidan gets cocky (which ICly he might) and tries to force his army through miles and miles of dense forests and swamps populated by various types of skinks and gets whittled down. If he plays it smart and stays in his fortified hell zones there's really no way for the Lizardmen to beat him.

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After some decent amount if months to pass I'd give it to the lizardmen.

I have to give it to the Lizardmen, even with the exclusion of Slann, but only just. It would be a hell of a fight, the skill of of Kroq-Gar and Grymloq(I assume he has Grymloq?) is the stuff of legends, would be cool to see them dueling the Betrayer. Besides, Carnosaurs are just too awesome.

@fullmetalemprah: brah dinos riding dinos is awesome in general XD

@fullmetalemprah: Yes he has grymloq. How long do you think the campaign would last?

@solarwavealpha: Due to to the landscape of Outland I can see it lasting awhile, maybe five or six months. Most of the fighting would take place in Terokkar Forest and Nagrand. Although it also comes down to a race of who can use the inhabitants of Outland first. Speaking of that you should have honestly placed the Broken in Illidan's forces as they are already technically allied with him.

Not Slayer or Demon Hunters?

Don’t see why illidan can’t solo considering what’s he’s done recently

The Illidan of versus is the frozen throne version.

Illidan Legion >> Iliidan Burning Crusade = Slayer >> Illidan of Frozen Throne

@royal_warrior: If you read my rules you would know why.

@fullmetalemprah said:

Illidan's forces were kinda already cramped and I didn't want to really add in another faction. I also wasn't sure how the Lizardmen would be able to counter the broken's invis units and so on.

@metaljimmor: That is an amazing answer, thank you!

Illidari forces should win over time. I don't see the lizardmen as the best of commanders and they don't tend to do well outside of their realm as they don't often leave it. They're use to their realm already giving their foes a very difficult time living breath by breath, so in an environment that yes does indeed favor them, but also doesn't I feel without the heavy bonuses they are use to in lustria. They're going to slowly die.