As the title says, Psylocke and Teen Jean vs Rachel in a TK brawl.

No phoenix for anyone. No instant-kill moves (snapping necks, crushing hearts etc). This is a drawn-out TK battle.

All going for the win

Location: Central Park

Start 20 meters apart.

I think Jeen is the most powerful here. Betsy is more skilled in combat overall. However, both Rachel and Jeen are quick studies. Jeen and Psylocke should be able to take this with difficulty.

Rachel is the more experienced TK and the more powerful psion of all three by a magnitude. Gold however bastardized her power.

@ursaber: she's only had it the longest. Pyslockes telepathic ability to solidify telepathic energy allowed her to basically master tk in a short time. Her years of experience manipulating and shaping psi energy would make her the more experienced of the 3. Jean being more powerful than Rachel is not a recent development.

@ursaber: the good thing is that we all know she is being made to look especially week lately, so we can probably just ignore those weak showings as they're clearly PIS. Btw, do you have any thoughts on my Jean vs Exodus threa? Who do you think would take it between them?

So because Psylocke is an expert in Psionic Constructs she's more powerful and experienced in every other Psychic area?

Rachel's sheer number of Telepathic and Telekinetic abilities eclipses Psylocke's and her raw psionic power is on a far higher level than hers.

I'd pick her over just about any other Psychic.

@ursaber: I didn't say she was more powerful only that she had more experience manipulating and shaping psi energy. I said Jeen is more powerful. Their combined experience and power will give them the win.

duo ftw

Duo.

Rachel is only more experienced, the other team has much more raw power. So I think the team takes it 7/10

One on one, Rache would take this.

Two on one though? The team.

And no I do not consider Teen Jean being stronger than Rache. That's just typical Bendis being Bendis.

@ashetdust: it's not typical Bendis considering it was stated before that, that Rachel is no match for Jean Grey holding back. Jeen does not and has never held back.

@lordofallhumans: And Jean has always been super duper powerful right? Even as a teen she is more powerful than fully trained adults, she was just born with fully formed powers and left everyone immediately in the dust. Yeah, not buying it. Her massive strength levels are a relatively recent development from multiple retcons and crappy writers. When Jean first came out she was weak, really weak. Then over time she became Xavier's equal. Then she became stronger than Xavier. Now she's OMG the strongest liek evah! She just secretly held back as to not make the boyz feel bads for being boyz!

Unlike most of the posters here, I actually have a lot of old uncanny issues.

So no. Crappy writing.

Adult Jean may be stronger than Rache, but Teen Jean is not.

@ashetdust: power has nothing to do with training. You're confusing skill. A boy Franklin and under 21 year old Nate proves that. Jean was not weak only restrained, Jeen had none of those restrictions constantly applied. I have them all too, so try reading them and watch how she developed unnaturally with Xavier vs naturally without him. Even AOA addresses how she would evolve naturally without his interference.

This is a GOOD fight. But I’m going with the Team. Eventually if feel like Betsy and Jean will overwhelm her. Though, Rachel isn’t going down easy. So this fight will be a drawn out fight.

Team for the win.

@ashetdust: Actually, Hopeless retconned Teen Jeans weakness back in the 60's in Jean Grey #6, with Jean explaining she was sparing the boys from being outshined by a girl, which I guess was meant to portray how women were seen back then???? And teen Jean admits to not giving the boys enough credit where it was due, basically assuming th couldn't handle it before giving them the chance.

Jeen has learned the usage of psychic constructs from Psylocke, which saved her from the Phoenix flames when she created a shield. I'm assuming teen Jean doesn't have access to her psychic form. Well, needless to say, I don't believe the team will need it. Jeen only needs to follow Betsy's lead.

@lordofallhumans:

So you’re saying Jean is now in the same catagory as Franklin and Nate? Two of the most ridiculous characters Marvel ever created? Both, of whom were so completely overpowered that neither is in a storyline in any way, shape, or form where their powers are actually used more than once every few years?

Really?

Look, can you honestly tell me that a teenage Usain Bolt could run as fast as when he was as adult? That as a teenager he was faster than other world class adult sprinters?

That a teenage Stephen Hawking was as bright as he was as an adult?

I will admit that yes, I think think adult Jean is stronger than Rachel, but teen Jean is still a teen and has to fully develope still. If you can’t see that then I’m wasting my time.

@ashetdust: WTH? I'm saying that training doesn't mean you're more powerful it means you're more skilled in using that power. Franklin and Nate are extreme examples of that point.

Running is not an innate superpower.

Being smart is not a power.

You're examples suck.

Jeen is powerful because Jean was always power. Training the way she did actually stunted the natural development of her power. Being displaced temporally and not learning the same restraint allowed her to use more power than she did at the same age if she hadn't time traveled. That's simply a fact as adult Jean has stated several times she held back her power. Jeen does not.

@pyrofn: Well that retconn really wasn’t needed. Her being kind weak back then could just be explained away by saying Xavier was putting psychic inhibitors without her knowing or that her powers just needed to grow naturally. That’s what a lot of people say to explain 60s Jean anyway.

By virtue of Teen Jean never losing a fight, duo.

By virtue of telekinetic weapons being Psylockes main focus, and that Jean Grey solo series having Jean Grey dabble in telekinetic weapons, duo.

By virtue of recent telekinetic feats, Teen Jean Grey, i.e. duo.

By virtue of who should actually win this fight given overall feats and upper limit potential, Rachel.

I think I'd back Rachel, but an argument can be made for the team.

I don't agree with Jeen being more powerful than Rachel. Sure she has a lot of raw power, but I believe that this also grows and increases over time and that in her teen state, she does not yet have the raw power that her adult self has. So while very powerful and in a similar weight class to Rachel, Rachel should definitely be more powerful than Jeen. As for the fight, Rachel has the best feats overall but I would give the team majority. Could change my mind if someone argued well enough for Rachel

@lordofallhumans:

A teenager is still maturing and regardless of how ever they were or were not trained, will not surpass an adult of similar abilities and training.

Once again, she’s still maturing.

If you are trying to claim that Jeen is as powerful as adult Jean because she used her powers more without Xavier there to urge caution and guide her, then you’ve embraced some really bad writing.

Teen Jean is not more powerful than Rachel. Rachel has kept a Avalon/Providence afloat and created a mini black hole. If Psylocke will try to engage in close quarter combat, I give this to Rachel. If they fight from a distance, i would give it to the team

Any worthy/notable development for Rachel in Gold?

I'm going with Rachel on this. She has better telekinesis feats .

Holding up a city

making a black hole

manipulating DNA to turn herself into a dinosaur

transmuting costumes using tk

Jeen hasn't lifted anything has heavy as Rachel. Neither has Psylocke despite her boasts of mountain moving.

I feel Rachel would over power them and has better feats of finesse tk usage.

Teen Jeans best feats are when she's in her pink mode and amped on psionic energy she has absorbed

Teen Jean & Psylocke would probably win a slight majority, after a very intense & lengthy fight. It wouldn’t be easy for them at all.

@adamtrmm: not to my recollection

@emmafrostxmen: Psylocke doesn’t not have more raw power. Psylocke was easily burnt out trying to save a city from a laser with Rachel.

Actually I change my mind. Rachel should take this. Rachel's top end feats eclipse anything Jeen and Psylocke have done barring Jeen's pink mode

@kasya_carey: No I just meant in total. As in psylockes power plus jeans is more than Rachael’s.