The issue was trash.

Guggenheim lied to Butterflykyss when he said he didn't read Coates's Black Panther "Adversary" story arc. Here, Uovu references how Storm "used to be a goddess when she was worshipped and again when she got the hammer:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6eKK6TqX8Nc/W4_qbAL0hvI/AAAAAAAABaM/uMI52rItGTMGodDTbd1K4wE8QTAFN9QIwCHMYCw/s1600/RCO006.jpg

This came right out of Coates story about Storm being worshipped making her a "goddess". Furthermore, here is a glaring plot hole in his story:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-lwR6MrVDyHM/W4_qhQz1zzI/AAAAAAAABcI/SN8CEnsLKHQ5ilovuotlzG-m3iAXpKJQwCHMYCw/s1600/RCO016.jpg

Uovo: "You think godhood and divinity is as ephemeral as faith? Godhood is eternal and infinite."

He said the above AFTER the last of his believers were taken down. In other words, once a character achieves "godhood", it stays with them regardless of faith. So, to state it more plainly, faith may get them there, but then "godhood" never goes away once a character attains it. Ergo, Storm should still be a "goddess" even after she left her villiage all those years ago and without the hammer based on what Guggenheim wrote in his own story.

This writer's attempts to try and devalue Storm is riddled with PIS and contradictions.

It's not trash. It's a great showing of Asgardian Storm

It's trash because it devalues power levels Storm has been established to have without the hammer. Plus the issue contradicted itself.

storm cell why were u banned?

I was banned on the other board because I said something like, "In my mind, Guggenheim is a racist for the way he treated Ororo over the span of his run on Gold." So, I am permanently banned from there.

I don't understand why that site is defending the racist behavior of Marvel's writing and editorialship. The pattern is so strong with Storm's character and has been going on for so long that it's hard not to think of the ongoing mistreatment of Storm as anything other than racial bias. From the late 70s - the mid 2000s, that bias only came into effect when she was put on the same team as Jean. However, ever since she married Panther, it continued even when she was not on the team with Jean Grey, and the x-office created the lie that she was scaled back in the x-books because she was appearing in Black Panther which was handled by a difference office. Give me a break! Rogue and Wolverine were in the X-books while also serving on the Avengers at the same time, and they had good showings in the x-books. It didn't hamper them at all in either title. Then, after the marriage was dissolved, and Storm was returned to the sole control of the x-office, she was constantly written weak in the books (regulated to using only lightning 99% of the time and usually had no mental defenses save for one or two writers). Guggenheim came along and wrote her worse than any other x-writer in history by totally writing her down. At first, I thought it was only to prop up Kitty, but then this whole Hammertime Storm thing changed my mind and made me think there was a stronger racial component to his approach than I initially thought.

Even in the Avengers, when Captain America leads a team consisting of Thor, Sersi, Quasar, etc., such character powerhouses get much better respect than what Ororo got from Guggenheim eventhough Steve is a much weaker character than either of the three mentioned above. In other words, eventhough Kitty was made the leader of this team of veterans (which was preposterous!), Storm didn't have to be written down as a powerhouse to prop her up just like the Avengers powerhouses are not written down for their leader, Cap.

On top of this, while Storm is being drastically weakened, let's look at another pattern going on right now with Jean Grey in Red as a comparison:

1) Jean canonically has always been much weaker than Nova, but it looks like Nova is going to be written down in October so that Jean wins against her in a psychic fight.

2) Storm, who should have a major grudge against Nova after what she pulled on Ororo, has a ton of canon that validates her beating Nova in a fight without PIS as Storm has a long history of beating out telepaths even stronger than Cassandra. It looks like this is going to be ignored in order to PIS Nova to prop up Jean. This wipes out any argument about Storm being weakened so threats can be propped up as legitimate. I mean, if writers want to say Storm is hard to manage because of her power levels are greater than the threats the X-villains pose, how can they be taken serious with that when they are weakening some of the strongest x-villains to prop up Jean now?

3) Recently in Blue, Jeen was propped up to be a threat against Magneto by PIS'ing him. The issue established that there was a flaw in Magneto's shields just like there are flaws in diamonds. So, Jeen found that flaw so that it could be exploited. It was established way back in the 80s that Magneto's shields were flawless. There are no weak points in his force-field. The only way to get past his shields were to: (a) transform into a form of energy that could simply pass through the barrier (Photon's light form, Selene's shadow form) (b) absorb it (Thor's hammer once absorbed Magneto's force-field) (c) Hit the shield with greater power than Magneto can muster (Storm accomplished this) (d) control the environment within the shield (it appears that Storm once created a blizzard inside of his force-field and nearly beat him, but only lost because she held back).

4) Emma Frost has historically much more powerful showings of TP feats than Jean Grey, yet, whenever she's pitted against Jean, she loses. However, she is able to best psis that beat both Jean and Jeen. (Emma beat Exodus, who easily beat out Jean, and then Emma beat Charles Jr who was more than a match for Jeen in that same issue.)

5) Now, it looks like in the previews for the next issue of Blue that Jean is about to take on several Heralds of Galactus and possibly some form of Galactus. Maybe she has the Phoenix Force in that story since it's set in the future, or maybe they are going to try and claim she can do it on her own. Whatever the case, historically, it is Storm has has the power feats and power sets to be able to accomplish these things, but look at how she is being devalued while Jean is doing all of this stuff that nothing in her history even remotely shows her to be able to do without the Phoenix Force boosting her. Again, this nullifies any argument of Storm being written down because she is "over powered". It's a racial double-standard, and one loaded with PIS to prop up Jean.

Meanwhile, Storm gets the worst writing she's ever had save for that that Dickey mini years ago. The progression Coates gave her to "goddess" was completely undermined, and it had nothing to do with propping up Kitty. I believe it was simply done because the writer has a problem with powerful Black female characters. The writer even went on to acknowledge in Gold #35 that Storm had achieved "goddesshood" during the time she was revered in Africa. (Meaning the writer read Coates story as this was an obvious reference to it.) It then further established that Storm lost her "divinity". However, the issue then contradicted this with Uovu stating that once one achieves "godhood", it is eternal and cannot be taken away. In other words, Storm should still be a "goddess" base on both the acknowledgement of this writer that Storm attained "divinity" prior to the X-Men combined with the fact that the writer said in the same issue that once a person reaches "goddesshood", they can never lose it.

6) Then, there is the constant refusal from Marvel to flesh out Storm's character/heritage/background/personal mythos in favor of rehashing the same old Grey/Summer stories over and over which have been told again and again since the late 70s/80s. Coates is trying to do this for the character, but Guggenheim, with the approval of X-editorial, regresses Storm. Now, tell me there isn't something suspicious about that!

Storm was the only black on the team, and she was constantly written down and humiliated to a degree no other character was throughout the entire run. She was completely dependent on others or an Asgardian tool which has feats far below her own natural power levels. On top of it, Storm is easily the most powerful and canonically most ferocious fighter on the Gold lineup.

In conclusion, Guggenheim didn't even have to touch the whole "goddess" aspect of Ororo. There really wasn't any point in introducing Stormbreaker other than to try and undermine Coates.

PS: For the record, the reason I bring up Jean frequently to make the comparison between her treatment and Ororo's to illustrate a clear bias which indicates a strong case to be made that such prejudice is most likely based on race. If it's not race, what other factor is more plausible for such behavior from the company?

What?!?!?

No. More and more Storm fans get banned from there. Huhuhu :(

Well, Marvel is not getting a dime of my money for this crap. No matter how well they write Jean (or Kitty), or any other of the x-characters save Logan, these characters do not sell the book. I hope the sales on the titles continue to decline as they have been doing for years until the company gets the message: Give us good stories about our favorite characters. A well-written Storm is more popular with the readership than a well-written Jean or any other member of the X-Men save Wolverine. Marvel has a problem with that, so they write her down to prop up lesser characters.

@stormcell: ugh man that sucks. And is harsh :-(. So sorry that happened Rutog. At least I am glad we can still engage you here, though we don’t have good Storm news to discuss. Guggenheim is one of the worst writers of X-Men and I pray he never returns to any book Storm is in.

He is ridiculously lazy when it comes to researching hos cast. Storm & Rachel were the hot a$$ messes of his Gold run.

@thunderbolt30: I don't think it's that big a loss not to post there anyway, lol. Sure, I could do like a few other Storm fans and create a new account there, but why bother? Comics are not much fun for me anymore. Heck, within the last year, I don't think I purchased more than 5 comics. So, I can cut back on posting on the subject as well, lol!

Come on fellow Storm fans. Guggenheim's X-Men Gold run isn't as bad as you all think. You just don't like the idea of Kitty leading the team. But don't you think it's also time for Kitty to lead a team too? At least on this run?

And the Asgardian Storm idea was great. Only shows that the Storm with a stormcaster is a relevant part of Storm. I actually like the goddess Storm on xmen gold more than in Black Panther, which Storm really never showed transformation that she is a real goddess, which makes other people think, the word goddess was just a word, that Storm never really became a real goddess.

Besides, the Asgardian Storm idea will not lastlong. So im glad Guggenheim used the idea on his run.

I may agree though that Rachel wasn't written well on his run but I can't really say the same thing for Storm. Guggenheim gave her moments to shine from time to time and even gave issues focused on h

And to point out that his run isn't the worst, Gambit and Rogue wedding was part of his run. I think it was also established on his run that Kurt is immortal?

He also gave Iceman a part on his run, gave us a powerful villain for the xmen gold to deal with , reintroduced Ink, Pyro, etc. Better team roster than what xmen blue, xmen red and astonishing xmen has.

Also the best selling xmen teambook among the current xment teambooks.

@stormcell: for me it is :-( but I get it. These past few years Storm’s fan luv is more etched in character loyalty than from what we get on panel. Most X-books I’ve dropped, including gold, like 10 issues ago and I an losing interest in the X-Men and marvel as a whole. They just...suck.

Either way we’ll still KIT here. Hopefully we get a break and Storm will leave the X-Men like she planned to wheb she re-recruited Kitty to replace her.

@thunderbolt30: Thanks for your support.

@Everyone: I am just going to say this one more time: What really gets me the most about Guggenheim's run is he went out of the way to do regress Storm's character in a way no x-writer has ever done. While I have posted frequently on the other board about Storm's power levels and mental defenses going down whenever she and Jean are on the same team, the other aspect I have not talked about nearly enough was how Storm's character development also came to a halt when Jean was put on the same team. Marvel constantly rehashed Summer/Grey stories with Phoenix Force themes, children from the future and alternate timelines, copies and evil clones of Jean and her children, Jean "not going to hold back anymore and going to push the upper end of her powers" (yeah, every writer who has taken on Jean starting with Kelly/Seagle till today has had her "explore the upper limits of her power" as if it were a new concept for the character)...and now they made her the "leader of mutant kind" over in Red (a role that should have gone to Ororo by all rights given the history between the two characters). Then, when Jean was killed, they brought 1960s era Jean from the past and into the present and gave her powerboosts so that she had abilities she never possessed canonically at that age.

In othe words, they explored everything they could think of with her character and kept rehashing the same old stuff over and over again while making a very deliberate effort to not break any new ground with Storm, who had lots of untapped potential for character development and power exploration whenever the two were on the same book roster or in a books where the two titles operated in synergy with each other. Even Claremont was guilty of treating Storm unfairly like this during Revolution when Storm and Jean were both in the same title.

That said, when Storm was in X-Treme X-Men while Phoenix Jean was in New X-Men, Jean's presence in New did not negatively impact Storm's development in X-Treme since they were in two completely different books which were completely independent of each other.

Now, what does this have to do with Guggenheim? What makes him so much worse?

Okay, I'll explain. Coates spent at least 8 months of a story arc breaking new ground with Storm's character over in Black Panther, a completely unrelated book to Gold X-Men. Guggenheim didn't do squat with Ororo except write her down to prop up other characters and humiliate Ororo's character to show how useless she was to the team. He didn't have to touch anything about the character that was being developed about her over in Black Panther. All he had to do was simply ignore it and let the next writer decide if they wanted anything to do with it if they got wind of Storm BP development. Instead, he went out of his way to bring introduce Stormcaster in the Gold X-Men title in the same month where we got the culmination of everything Coates had been building up to with Storm for more than a 8 months. He then used the hammer to try and undermine what Coates did. While a few of you may like the hammer, I think it's fair to agree that the only purpose the hammer served in Gold's run was to undermine Coates.

Stormcaster's presence came clear out of left field as it wasn't connected to anything that was relevant to Guggenheim's book. I mean, what did add? She was just Lightning Lass Hammer Girl. The only thing he tried to prove is Storm was not a "goddess" and did not have "goddess-level" powers. And even then, he is such a hack writer that he contradicted his own concepts with his acknowledgement that Storm was once an actual "goddess" back when she was worshipped in Africa and then when he claimed that once a character (Uovo) attained "godhood" by faith, it is eternal even if the faith is removed. So, in other words, Storm should still be a "goddess" and the hammer isn't needed.

Then, there were other problematic things with what Guggenheim tried to assert. On the other board, I posted extensively on how even Claremontian Storm was established in canon to have "goddess-level" powers even while she retained her humanity and had not yet ascended to her full "goddess" potential. Furthermore, Storm has been able to hurt beings far more powerful than Uovu (Adversary, Stardust, Trion, Silver Surfer, Hulk, etc) without a hammer. Finally, Storm has feats far beyond the scope and power of anything Stormcaster has done. Yet, despite all of this, her own lightning was completely ineffectual against Uovu while Stormcaster's lightning could hurt him.

So, in closing, Guggenheim did something I can recall no other x-writer ever doing to harm Storm's character. He literally arranged his own book's story in a way to undermine development she got in another title completely unrelated to his own.

Make no mistake, it was no coincidence that Stormcaster showed up in Gold in the very month where we got the climax to a HUGE Black Panther story plot that was nearly a year in the making ending with Storm realizing her "inner goddess" and defeating Adversary. I believe that Guggenheim lied to Butterflykyss as it's just too fanciful to believe otherwise.

Now, what is the potential fall-out of this?

Future x-writers will look at Gold to see what came before to construct their own stories. It is unlikely they will be aware of what Coates did for Storm in Black Panther since that is not an x-title. They may continue with the theme that Storm's power levels are less than "goddess-level" even if they want to ignore her "goddesshood". Storm had "goddess-level" powers from day one of her creation, hence her powers were on a par with Phoenix Force Jean Grey's, and she was given feats early in her creation to prove this. Not only that, but it was stated in plain English right on panel that Storm had "goddess-level" power in Life/Death 2. I hope Guggenheim's detrimental impact on Ororo dies when he leaves the title, but I doubt the next writer will be so knowledgeable about Storm's canon or whoever the next x-scribe will be to take her on, may be prejudiced against the character and want to write her down to prop up his own favorites. He could try and use the trash Guggenheim wrote as a basis for writing Storm down.

End of rant.

@stormcell: oh wow. I figured that's what happened. I think they are honestly looking for reasons to ban storm fans over there. what you said was true. I hope u come back I feel like all the vets either are banned or don't post frequently. that said im sorry to hear it happened but im not surprised. I'm sure I will be next lol.

Well, they better watch that. Comixfan used to be the biggest comicbook internet site before CBR. The mods there were very prejudical to certain fanbases (Storm fans being one...they even went so far on that board to say that Storm fans couldn't use issues where Storm had an indomitable will or electrical defenses in "versus" debates against telepathic foes. One mod called it "arbitrary" eventhough Storm had mental defenses for most of her canon and was being written with those defenses at that time in X-Treme X-Men. So, under their rules, Storm lost to any and every telepath automatically since she had no defense to their powers. To boot, they allowed fandoms of their own personal favorite characters to run wild and insult other fanbases without any consequences with the mods being insulting as well.)

Anyway, long story short, they banned so many people, and fans started to openly complain about the mods, even going so far as to tell some of them off in their posts, that the site eventually became like a ghost town. Hardly anyone went there anymore. So, when a comicbook site bans too many people for silly reasons, they do more harm than good to themselves.

Besides, the comments I made were based on the actions of the writer himself. Meanwhile, I don't see how the Jean fans got away with harassing another writer on twitter who wrote Xavier mindwiping Jean (something he should be able to do since he is canonically much more powerful, skilled, and experienced than Jean) for hours on end and then cutting and pasting tweets he wrote on the boards as proof of their argument when it was clear that he was only saying that stuff to get them off his back. His tweets did not reflect the content of the issue he wrote. I may dislike a writer, but I won't go so far as to hunt him down and harass him on social media. How does that behavior make CBR a "safe spot" for that writer when rabid Jean fans can attack him on social media and are allowed to bring his tweets to the boards after they badgered him?

I really don't think we should blame Guggenheim just while Coates made Storm a (real) goddess on his BP run.

Let's just be thankful that Storm also had moments in gold. Don't expect Guggenheim the same thing Coates did. Storm to be officially declared as a real goddess has not yet arrived eventhough Coates gave us a hint. I don't think Marvel will allow it but with Coates, it could happen. So I'm waiting for Storm to be a real goddess on her second ongoing solo which will be written by Coates.

valid points . and their actions didnt make it safe for writers. it just point to hypocrisy of the mods on cbr.

Storm is defo written better in Xmen Goldh inxe Red. Jean always does huge things in Xmen Red. Storm hasn't since the first issue

@stormcell: i'm really sad that you can no longer poost there. You see, even if in my case, i get to encounter a lot oof disagreements between Storm fans on that site, I never want them banned because it's going to be a loss on Storm fans as a whole. We won't have enough votes to keep Storm on top on voting, polls, etc.

But since it already happened, i hope Storm fans who can no longer post there would hang out here more.

@stormcell: after looking at CBR last night it looks like there are s a concentrated effort to come for Storm fans

@thunderbolt30:

It's a shame. Storm fans really liven up a place. There's never a dull moment with passionate Storm fans around who are frequently active on a website. Remember the old Storm thread that was recently closed before the new one was opened up overthere? That thread had far more posts and views than any other in the x-forum (and probably of all the message board forums on that site). If all the vocal Storm fans were to be banned from that site, it would be their loss. The boards won't be as entertaining minus all the lively debates we had over there.

@thunderbolt30: chile yes.. I was banned for agreeing with comments made about emma and laughing at someone's post but was told I was banned due to derailing and cheering on rude behavior. it's absolutely ridiculous the mods harass particular users there for doing absolutely nothing. though my ban there is temp I'm beyond spent with dealing with their pettiness and I'm probably done posting there.

@stormcell: everything they have done there is purposeful. I must say they have done a great job of knocking out fans and they are smart. they make accusations and delete all traces of the exchanges so you cant defend yourself. Its tiring when mods become the biggest offenders against rules they are supposed to enforce. and engaging with egomaniacs I'm not sure is worth it anymore. we will see I'm on the fence but I'm leaning towards not posting there any further and will give them what they want.

We just have to accept it. They have a reason to ban posters.

But we still have this site. :)

its temporary but even still I'm not sure I'm going back.

and as much as i love posting here it's a lot slower than it used to be.

We'll just have to post here often butterflykyss. :)

@butterflykyss: @stormcell: lol i just read the review thread for the final issue of gold. Thank the goddess this run is over. That fake-a$$ gold turned my skin green. Horribly anticlimactic and a super fail!

Did Storm do something in X-men Gold 36?

Just gonna say perhaps I should not have attacked Guggenheim directly with the "racism" comment, but the behavior of Marvel is suspicious.

Just an article that articulates what many of us have called attention to:

http://thegeekiary.com/marvel-storm-goddess/55725

Thank you for this.

Is the author one of the Storm fans here?