How many of these types of threads do we need?

@undefined: @celestialknight: No offense but if you’re gonna complain then make a thread about it.

As for the OP, I believe Matt via Echo Location.

@celestialknight: sorry idk if there's someone who already made this thread.

1. Ollie


2. Matt


3. Natt

Matt≥ Oliver > Natasha

Ollie has shown better feats than Natasha and Matt....neither would be able to handle Prometheus, Merlin, or Deathstroke

Black Widow.

She's also the coolest of the three.

More accurate would be Ollie vs Matt and Natasha

Oliver. Nat does not belong here.

Matt is more skilled.

Have we ever debated this?

@rbt: You and me? Don't think so.

In H2h Matt is one of if not the best in H2h combat

Matt > Nat > Oliver. Ollie is out of his depth here. Unarmed combat is not his forte.

@dstreet45:

What advantages does Matt have over Oliver in your opinion?

@rbt: Speed, agility, and radar/senses. I think practical H2H skill (stuff they often use in an actual fight) is pretty close (Oliver's pure H2H feats are underrated sometimes). Oliver has the power edge but I don't think it's a big gap as Matt's stregth and striking is good enough to contend with Oliver. Oliver has the durability advantage but barring super high end feats I still think Matt is close. Pain tolerance is wash as either could consistently withstand inhuman amount of pain.

Essentially I think they're close enough overall but Matt's avoidance and senses gives him the edge in a fight in a 1 on 1 or a free for all.

Oliver

Matt

Widow.

FFA, H2H I'd back Matt tbh.

Just what Dstreet45 said.

@dstreet45: How is Matt faster than Oliver? I don't see that at all.

Ollie>Matt=>Nat

Romanov > Queen > Murdock.

Oliver.

@dstreet45:

Speed, agility, and radar/senses.

I don't see how Matt is faster than Oliver. Ollie's arrow timing feats are far better than Matt's. Agility is fair. Matt is agiler when fighting. Radar senses won't help him much in an h2h fight. All it does is compensate for his lack of vision when it comes to h2h. If this were an open battlefield fight, then Matt's radar senses would have been an advantage.

I think practical H2H skill (stuff they often use in an actual fight) is pretty close (Oliver's pure H2H feats are underrated sometimes).

Yeah, skill wise, I think they are on par with each other. One may have a very slight advantage over the other(both ways) depending on how you interpret some of their feats and scaling, but it's likely not wide enough to bring up.

Oliver has the power edge but I don't think it's a big gap as Matt's stregth and striking is good enough to contend with Oliver.

Fair. Oliver is stronger, but not by that much. But when several small advantages start stacking up like that, it becomes a big advantage.

. Oliver has the durability advantage but barring super high end feats I still think Matt is close.

This is the point I don't really agree with. Oliver's durability is extremely impressive. I don't think we need to remove any high-end feats of Oliver because that's the level he usually operates on. He has at least half a dozen durability feats which I don't see Matt replicating going by his current feats. That's a lot. While Matt is pretty durable for a peak human, I think Oliver is comfortably ahead in this department.

Pain tolerance is wash as either could consistently withstand inhuman amount of pain.

True.

Essentially I think they're close enough overall but Matt's avoidance and senses gives him the edge in a fight in a 1 on 1 or a free for all.

Like I said, I don't think Matt can do anything with his senses in an h2h fight that Oliver can't. So, I don't see how it's really an advantage. The way I see it, Matt is agiler, but Oliver has all other advantages. Small speed, strength and striking advantage and a good durability advantage. Skill is as close as it can be and not worth writing an essay over.

If stats were equalized(strength, durability and speed) I'd side with Matt because of his agility and avoidance. But Oliver's stats is a pretty crucial advantage in h2h.