Is Yhwach Invincible? (How to beat Yhwach Guide)
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Is Yhwach Invincible? (How to beat Yhwach Guide)
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Posted by
Revold
(434 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
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Okay I've seen like a dozen Bleach vs Naruto battles popping up nowadays and I realised one of the most problematic issue in the debates is having no consensus on how "Almighty" works. So today we are going to tackle some very deep topics:
- How does Yhwach's "Almighty" work?
- How did Aizen fool him?
- Why Yhwach cannot solo the Narutoverse.
Now before you call me a Naruto fan, I did not make this post just to defend Naruto specifically. I chose Naruto simply because many posts on Comicvine nowadays involves this.
Part I: How does "Almighty" Work
Right off the bat I want to establish that in Bleach, there are many possibilities that the future may eventually realise. Now this is slightly different from your typical "Divergence Timeline" theories that we are all familiar with, where all possible future exists. In Bleach, the future "jumps" from one to another possibility, hence the future is not deterministic. There is also only one past, so no convergence timeline either.
There's a few prepositions I see on how Almighty works:
- Almighty enables Yhwach to transform any part of reality to his own liking without limits. Basically reality warping but only limited to the future.
- Almighty enables Yhwach to apply his (other) powers to some time in the future as if it is the present. Something like Temporal Presence.
- Almighty enables Yhwach to pick which "possibility" he wants the future to be. In other words, choose the grain of sand he wants to jump to; Probability Manipulation
Option One: Reality Warping
This is quite a problematic option to say the least. What actually happens when "transforms the future"? Does he create new possibilities/grains of sand, so that he can realise even what was originally impossible? Or does he manipulate the existing possibilities? Does he manipulate all the possibilities such that there is no possibility in which he is defeated? Or does he manipulate the possibility that he foresee the future is on?
This option can be eliminated almost immediately because if that's true, he is invincible. He can erase Ichigo out of existence, or better, make Ichigo work for him, or create a 1000 Ichigo to form an army and wipe out Soul Society. This is the borderline omnipotence I see many fans imagine Yhwach as.
Okay so clearly he has his limits. What limits him then? Instead of randomly setting an arbitrary limitation, a reasonable answer would be that he only can apply his current powers on the future situation. Which brings us to Option Two.
Option 2: Temporal Presence
One thing to point out that it is clearly temporal presence of his powers, not himself. Yhwach doesn't create a virtual Yhwach into the future and start planting traps or absorb Aizen. When he chose to absorb Aizen in the present, the technique doesn't absorb the future Aizen into present Yhwach. It absorbs future Aizen into future Yhwach. Meaning even after he died, the technique would still work as he technically already activated it. It may sound like just a delayed technique, but a delayed technique doesn't work if the user died. It is something like reality warping of Izanagi from Naruto.
The weakness of this is that if Yhwach didn't activate the technique in the past, he would've gone for good. The dead Yhwach can't retrieve his powers from before.
This also explains how Yhwach sees all the possibilities, but still manage to get hit by Uryu's arrow. Because circumstances allows the future to jump from one grain of sand to another. And Yhwach only manipulated the grain of sand the future was on.
Option 3: Probability Manipulation
Yhwach manipulates the jumping of sand themselves. Yhwach could've put the traps on that position through normal means, and then manipulate the circumstances and chances such that Ichigo lands on them.
How it can explain his revival is that he made the future jumped to another grain of sand right before he dies, and the technique is activated after he died.
I'm not particularly fond of this as this limits his powers to what is conventionally possible only. Then is there a sand whereby Yhwach rise from the dead? Don't think so.
Part II: How did Aizen fool him
If Yhwach is able to see all possible futures, why didn't he see the future where he is under Aizen's hypnosis. Aizen's hypnosis is subtle and can only be discovered when it ends. It is different from say Infinite Tsukuyomi, where the victim knows they are in a Genjutsu.
Infinite Tsukuyomi is like "Virtual Reality" while Kyoka Suigetsu is like "Augmented Reality". It changes only the perception of something that is very much based on the real world. Since it affects all five senses, it also affects Yhwach's eyes.
Notice that Aizen have no idea what Yhwach sees. This might've kept the future "blurry" meaning the future is at the wrong possibility.
Also we have no idea how Aizen might've intelligently implemented his hypnosis so that Yhwach didn't even notice.
Part III: Why Yhwach cannot solo Narutoverse
Now just because Yhwach got into genjutsu once doesn't mean any genjutsu is enough to defeat him. Infinite Tsukuyomi didn't work on dead people, thus we can assume it doesn't work on souls. Even if we take that away, Yhwach still can release himself using Almighty.
Here are two ways Narutoverse can counter Yhwach:
Izanagi
Izanami is a jutsu specifically to counter Izanagi's changing destiny. If they manage to trap Yhwach in it, he would be basically standing still while his Almighty only works within the close loop of time.
However, having to trap Yhwach is not easy either since he can see the future of him standing still before it happens. Unless someone as intelligent as Itachi can pull this off, this may not work either.
Koto Amatsukami
The most interesting is Koto Amatsukami, which manipulates the target's memories and changes the target's ideals and values altogether, basically transforming their mind and identity to something else.
Now even if Yhwach tries to prevent this in the future, can this manipulated Yhwach counter his own technique? So it ends up being a Yhwach vs Yhwach situation.
Six Paths Chibaku Tensei
Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is a technique that takes away the chakra and closes the eye of Rinne Sharingan. We can safely assume that this can also close Yhwach's eyes too.
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#1
Posted by
FaradaySloth
(3426 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
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Yhwach doesn't solo Narutoverse but by sheer power/energy I believe he's the strongest in the HST
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#2
Posted by
Mr_Ingenuity
(14384 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
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TL;DR
He gets shit on by telepaths, high tier speed, and high tier time manipulators.
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#3
Edited by
Lan_Fan
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- 1 month, 2 days ago
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Is Yhwach Invincible? (How to beat Yhwach Guide)
- Revold
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Forum Posts: 434
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Posted by
Revold
(434 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
- Show Bio
Okay I've seen like a dozen Bleach vs Naruto battles popping up nowadays and I realised one of the most problematic issue in the debates is having no consensus on how "Almighty" works. So today we are going to tackle some very deep topics:
- How does Yhwach's "Almighty" work?
- How did Aizen fool him?
- Why Yhwach cannot solo the Narutoverse.
Now before you call me a Naruto fan, I did not make this post just to defend Naruto specifically. I chose Naruto simply because many posts on Comicvine nowadays involves this.
Part I: How does "Almighty" Work
Right off the bat I want to establish that in Bleach, there are many possibilities that the future may eventually realise. Now this is slightly different from your typical "Divergence Timeline" theories that we are all familiar with, where all possible future exists. In Bleach, the future "jumps" from one to another possibility, hence the future is not deterministic. There is also only one past, so no convergence timeline either.
There's a few prepositions I see on how Almighty works:
- Almighty enables Yhwach to transform any part of reality to his own liking without limits. Basically reality warping but only limited to the future.
- Almighty enables Yhwach to apply his (other) powers to some time in the future as if it is the present. Something like Temporal Presence.
- Almighty enables Yhwach to pick which "possibility" he wants the future to be. In other words, choose the grain of sand he wants to jump to; Probability Manipulation
Option One: Reality Warping
This is quite a problematic option to say the least. What actually happens when "transforms the future"? Does he create new possibilities/grains of sand, so that he can realise even what was originally impossible? Or does he manipulate the existing possibilities? Does he manipulate all the possibilities such that there is no possibility in which he is defeated? Or does he manipulate the possibility that he foresee the future is on?
This option can be eliminated almost immediately because if that's true, he is invincible. He can erase Ichigo out of existence, or better, make Ichigo work for him, or create a 1000 Ichigo to form an army and wipe out Soul Society. This is the borderline omnipotence I see many fans imagine Yhwach as.
Okay so clearly he has his limits. What limits him then? Instead of randomly setting an arbitrary limitation, a reasonable answer would be that he only can apply his current powers on the future situation. Which brings us to Option Two.
Option 2: Temporal Presence
One thing to point out that it is clearly temporal presence of his powers, not himself. Yhwach doesn't create a virtual Yhwach into the future and start planting traps or absorb Aizen. When he chose to absorb Aizen in the present, the technique doesn't absorb the future Aizen into present Yhwach. It absorbs future Aizen into future Yhwach. Meaning even after he died, the technique would still work as he technically already activated it. It may sound like just a delayed technique, but a delayed technique doesn't work if the user died. It is something like reality warping of Izanagi from Naruto.
The weakness of this is that if Yhwach didn't activate the technique in the past, he would've gone for good. The dead Yhwach can't retrieve his powers from before.
This also explains how Yhwach sees all the possibilities, but still manage to get hit by Uryu's arrow. Because circumstances allows the future to jump from one grain of sand to another. And Yhwach only manipulated the grain of sand the future was on.
Option 3: Probability Manipulation
Yhwach manipulates the jumping of sand themselves. Yhwach could've put the traps on that position through normal means, and then manipulate the circumstances and chances such that Ichigo lands on them.
How it can explain his revival is that he made the future jumped to another grain of sand right before he dies, and the technique is activated after he died.
I'm not particularly fond of this as this limits his powers to what is conventionally possible only. Then is there a sand whereby Yhwach rise from the dead? Don't think so.
Part II: How did Aizen fool him
If Yhwach is able to see all possible futures, why didn't he see the future where he is under Aizen's hypnosis. Aizen's hypnosis is subtle and can only be discovered when it ends. It is different from say Infinite Tsukuyomi, where the victim knows they are in a Genjutsu.
Infinite Tsukuyomi is like "Virtual Reality" while Kyoka Suigetsu is like "Augmented Reality". It changes only the perception of something that is very much based on the real world. Since it affects all five senses, it also affects Yhwach's eyes.
Notice that Aizen have no idea what Yhwach sees. This might've kept the future "blurry" meaning the future is at the wrong possibility.
Also we have no idea how Aizen might've intelligently implemented his hypnosis so that Yhwach didn't even notice.
Part III: Why Yhwach cannot solo Narutoverse
Now just because Yhwach got into genjutsu once doesn't mean any genjutsu is enough to defeat him. Infinite Tsukuyomi didn't work on dead people, thus we can assume it doesn't work on souls. Even if we take that away, Yhwach still can release himself using Almighty.
Here are two ways Narutoverse can counter Yhwach:
Izanagi
Izanami is a jutsu specifically to counter Izanagi's changing destiny. If they manage to trap Yhwach in it, he would be basically standing still while his Almighty only works within the close loop of time.
However, having to trap Yhwach is not easy either since he can see the future of him standing still before it happens. Unless someone as intelligent as Itachi can pull this off, this may not work either.
Koto Amatsukami
The most interesting is Koto Amatsukami, which manipulates the target's memories and changes the target's ideals and values altogether, basically transforming their mind and identity to something else.
Now even if Yhwach tries to prevent this in the future, can this manipulated Yhwach counter his own technique? So it ends up being a Yhwach vs Yhwach situation.
Six Paths Chibaku Tensei
Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is a technique that takes away the chakra and closes the eye of Rinne Sharingan. We can safely assume that this can also close Yhwach's eyes too.
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#1
Posted by
FaradaySloth
(3426 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
- Show Bio
Yhwach doesn't solo Narutoverse but by sheer power/energy I believe he's the strongest in the HST
- Mr_Ingenuity
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Forum Posts: 14384
Wiki Points: 295
Followed by: 0
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#2
Posted by
Mr_Ingenuity
(14384 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
- Show Bio
TL;DR
He gets shit on by telepaths, high tier speed, and high tier time manipulators.
- Lan_Fan
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Forum Posts: 8192
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#3
Edited by
Lan_Fan
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- 1 month, 2 days ago
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Is Yhwach Invincible? (How to beat Yhwach Guide)
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Posted by
Revold
(434 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
- Show Bio
Okay I've seen like a dozen Bleach vs Naruto battles popping up nowadays and I realised one of the most problematic issue in the debates is having no consensus on how "Almighty" works. So today we are going to tackle some very deep topics:
- How does Yhwach's "Almighty" work?
- How did Aizen fool him?
- Why Yhwach cannot solo the Narutoverse.
Now before you call me a Naruto fan, I did not make this post just to defend Naruto specifically. I chose Naruto simply because many posts on Comicvine nowadays involves this.
Part I: How does "Almighty" Work
Right off the bat I want to establish that in Bleach, there are many possibilities that the future may eventually realise. Now this is slightly different from your typical "Divergence Timeline" theories that we are all familiar with, where all possible future exists. In Bleach, the future "jumps" from one to another possibility, hence the future is not deterministic. There is also only one past, so no convergence timeline either.
There's a few prepositions I see on how Almighty works:
- Almighty enables Yhwach to transform any part of reality to his own liking without limits. Basically reality warping but only limited to the future.
- Almighty enables Yhwach to apply his (other) powers to some time in the future as if it is the present. Something like Temporal Presence.
- Almighty enables Yhwach to pick which "possibility" he wants the future to be. In other words, choose the grain of sand he wants to jump to; Probability Manipulation
Option One: Reality Warping
This is quite a problematic option to say the least. What actually happens when "transforms the future"? Does he create new possibilities/grains of sand, so that he can realise even what was originally impossible? Or does he manipulate the existing possibilities? Does he manipulate all the possibilities such that there is no possibility in which he is defeated? Or does he manipulate the possibility that he foresee the future is on?
This option can be eliminated almost immediately because if that's true, he is invincible. He can erase Ichigo out of existence, or better, make Ichigo work for him, or create a 1000 Ichigo to form an army and wipe out Soul Society. This is the borderline omnipotence I see many fans imagine Yhwach as.
Okay so clearly he has his limits. What limits him then? Instead of randomly setting an arbitrary limitation, a reasonable answer would be that he only can apply his current powers on the future situation. Which brings us to Option Two.
Option 2: Temporal Presence
One thing to point out that it is clearly temporal presence of his powers, not himself. Yhwach doesn't create a virtual Yhwach into the future and start planting traps or absorb Aizen. When he chose to absorb Aizen in the present, the technique doesn't absorb the future Aizen into present Yhwach. It absorbs future Aizen into future Yhwach. Meaning even after he died, the technique would still work as he technically already activated it. It may sound like just a delayed technique, but a delayed technique doesn't work if the user died. It is something like reality warping of Izanagi from Naruto.
The weakness of this is that if Yhwach didn't activate the technique in the past, he would've gone for good. The dead Yhwach can't retrieve his powers from before.
This also explains how Yhwach sees all the possibilities, but still manage to get hit by Uryu's arrow. Because circumstances allows the future to jump from one grain of sand to another. And Yhwach only manipulated the grain of sand the future was on.
Option 3: Probability Manipulation
Yhwach manipulates the jumping of sand themselves. Yhwach could've put the traps on that position through normal means, and then manipulate the circumstances and chances such that Ichigo lands on them.
How it can explain his revival is that he made the future jumped to another grain of sand right before he dies, and the technique is activated after he died.
I'm not particularly fond of this as this limits his powers to what is conventionally possible only. Then is there a sand whereby Yhwach rise from the dead? Don't think so.
Part II: How did Aizen fool him
If Yhwach is able to see all possible futures, why didn't he see the future where he is under Aizen's hypnosis. Aizen's hypnosis is subtle and can only be discovered when it ends. It is different from say Infinite Tsukuyomi, where the victim knows they are in a Genjutsu.
Infinite Tsukuyomi is like "Virtual Reality" while Kyoka Suigetsu is like "Augmented Reality". It changes only the perception of something that is very much based on the real world. Since it affects all five senses, it also affects Yhwach's eyes.
Notice that Aizen have no idea what Yhwach sees. This might've kept the future "blurry" meaning the future is at the wrong possibility.
Also we have no idea how Aizen might've intelligently implemented his hypnosis so that Yhwach didn't even notice.
Part III: Why Yhwach cannot solo Narutoverse
Now just because Yhwach got into genjutsu once doesn't mean any genjutsu is enough to defeat him. Infinite Tsukuyomi didn't work on dead people, thus we can assume it doesn't work on souls. Even if we take that away, Yhwach still can release himself using Almighty.
Here are two ways Narutoverse can counter Yhwach:
Izanagi
Izanami is a jutsu specifically to counter Izanagi's changing destiny. If they manage to trap Yhwach in it, he would be basically standing still while his Almighty only works within the close loop of time.
However, having to trap Yhwach is not easy either since he can see the future of him standing still before it happens. Unless someone as intelligent as Itachi can pull this off, this may not work either.
Koto Amatsukami
The most interesting is Koto Amatsukami, which manipulates the target's memories and changes the target's ideals and values altogether, basically transforming their mind and identity to something else.
Now even if Yhwach tries to prevent this in the future, can this manipulated Yhwach counter his own technique? So it ends up being a Yhwach vs Yhwach situation.
Six Paths Chibaku Tensei
Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is a technique that takes away the chakra and closes the eye of Rinne Sharingan. We can safely assume that this can also close Yhwach's eyes too.
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#1
Posted by
FaradaySloth
(3426 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
- Show Bio
Yhwach doesn't solo Narutoverse but by sheer power/energy I believe he's the strongest in the HST
- Mr_Ingenuity
- Follow
Forum Posts: 14384
Wiki Points: 295
Followed by: 0
Reviews: 0 Lists: 0
#2
Posted by
Mr_Ingenuity
(14384 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
- Show Bio
TL;DR
He gets shit on by telepaths, high tier speed, and high tier time manipulators.
- Lan_Fan
- Follow
Forum Posts: 8192
Wiki Points: 284
Followed by: 0
Reviews: 0 Lists: 0
#3
Edited by
Lan_Fan
(8192 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
- Show Bio
He is.
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Posted by
Revold
(434 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
- Show Bio
Okay I've seen like a dozen Bleach vs Naruto battles popping up nowadays and I realised one of the most problematic issue in the debates is having no consensus on how "Almighty" works. So today we are going to tackle some very deep topics:
- How does Yhwach's "Almighty" work?
- How did Aizen fool him?
- Why Yhwach cannot solo the Narutoverse.
Now before you call me a Naruto fan, I did not make this post just to defend Naruto specifically. I chose Naruto simply because many posts on Comicvine nowadays involves this.
Part I: How does "Almighty" Work
Right off the bat I want to establish that in Bleach, there are many possibilities that the future may eventually realise. Now this is slightly different from your typical "Divergence Timeline" theories that we are all familiar with, where all possible future exists. In Bleach, the future "jumps" from one to another possibility, hence the future is not deterministic. There is also only one past, so no convergence timeline either.
There's a few prepositions I see on how Almighty works:
- Almighty enables Yhwach to transform any part of reality to his own liking without limits. Basically reality warping but only limited to the future.
- Almighty enables Yhwach to apply his (other) powers to some time in the future as if it is the present. Something like Temporal Presence.
- Almighty enables Yhwach to pick which "possibility" he wants the future to be. In other words, choose the grain of sand he wants to jump to; Probability Manipulation
Option One: Reality Warping
This is quite a problematic option to say the least. What actually happens when "transforms the future"? Does he create new possibilities/grains of sand, so that he can realise even what was originally impossible? Or does he manipulate the existing possibilities? Does he manipulate all the possibilities such that there is no possibility in which he is defeated? Or does he manipulate the possibility that he foresee the future is on?
This option can be eliminated almost immediately because if that's true, he is invincible. He can erase Ichigo out of existence, or better, make Ichigo work for him, or create a 1000 Ichigo to form an army and wipe out Soul Society. This is the borderline omnipotence I see many fans imagine Yhwach as.
Okay so clearly he has his limits. What limits him then? Instead of randomly setting an arbitrary limitation, a reasonable answer would be that he only can apply his current powers on the future situation. Which brings us to Option Two.
Option 2: Temporal Presence
One thing to point out that it is clearly temporal presence of his powers, not himself. Yhwach doesn't create a virtual Yhwach into the future and start planting traps or absorb Aizen. When he chose to absorb Aizen in the present, the technique doesn't absorb the future Aizen into present Yhwach. It absorbs future Aizen into future Yhwach. Meaning even after he died, the technique would still work as he technically already activated it. It may sound like just a delayed technique, but a delayed technique doesn't work if the user died. It is something like reality warping of Izanagi from Naruto.
The weakness of this is that if Yhwach didn't activate the technique in the past, he would've gone for good. The dead Yhwach can't retrieve his powers from before.
This also explains how Yhwach sees all the possibilities, but still manage to get hit by Uryu's arrow. Because circumstances allows the future to jump from one grain of sand to another. And Yhwach only manipulated the grain of sand the future was on.
Option 3: Probability Manipulation
Yhwach manipulates the jumping of sand themselves. Yhwach could've put the traps on that position through normal means, and then manipulate the circumstances and chances such that Ichigo lands on them.
How it can explain his revival is that he made the future jumped to another grain of sand right before he dies, and the technique is activated after he died.
I'm not particularly fond of this as this limits his powers to what is conventionally possible only. Then is there a sand whereby Yhwach rise from the dead? Don't think so.
Part II: How did Aizen fool him
If Yhwach is able to see all possible futures, why didn't he see the future where he is under Aizen's hypnosis. Aizen's hypnosis is subtle and can only be discovered when it ends. It is different from say Infinite Tsukuyomi, where the victim knows they are in a Genjutsu.
Infinite Tsukuyomi is like "Virtual Reality" while Kyoka Suigetsu is like "Augmented Reality". It changes only the perception of something that is very much based on the real world. Since it affects all five senses, it also affects Yhwach's eyes.
Notice that Aizen have no idea what Yhwach sees. This might've kept the future "blurry" meaning the future is at the wrong possibility.
Also we have no idea how Aizen might've intelligently implemented his hypnosis so that Yhwach didn't even notice.
Part III: Why Yhwach cannot solo Narutoverse
Now just because Yhwach got into genjutsu once doesn't mean any genjutsu is enough to defeat him. Infinite Tsukuyomi didn't work on dead people, thus we can assume it doesn't work on souls. Even if we take that away, Yhwach still can release himself using Almighty.
Here are two ways Narutoverse can counter Yhwach:
Izanagi
Izanami is a jutsu specifically to counter Izanagi's changing destiny. If they manage to trap Yhwach in it, he would be basically standing still while his Almighty only works within the close loop of time.
However, having to trap Yhwach is not easy either since he can see the future of him standing still before it happens. Unless someone as intelligent as Itachi can pull this off, this may not work either.
Koto Amatsukami
The most interesting is Koto Amatsukami, which manipulates the target's memories and changes the target's ideals and values altogether, basically transforming their mind and identity to something else.
Now even if Yhwach tries to prevent this in the future, can this manipulated Yhwach counter his own technique? So it ends up being a Yhwach vs Yhwach situation.
Six Paths Chibaku Tensei
Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is a technique that takes away the chakra and closes the eye of Rinne Sharingan. We can safely assume that this can also close Yhwach's eyes too.
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#1
Posted by
FaradaySloth
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- 1 month, 2 days ago
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Yhwach doesn't solo Narutoverse but by sheer power/energy I believe he's the strongest in the HST
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#2
Posted by
Mr_Ingenuity
(14384 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
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TL;DR
He gets shit on by telepaths, high tier speed, and high tier time manipulators.
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#3
Edited by
Lan_Fan
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Posted by
Revold
(434 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
- Show Bio
Okay I've seen like a dozen Bleach vs Naruto battles popping up nowadays and I realised one of the most problematic issue in the debates is having no consensus on how "Almighty" works. So today we are going to tackle some very deep topics:
- How does Yhwach's "Almighty" work?
- How did Aizen fool him?
- Why Yhwach cannot solo the Narutoverse.
Now before you call me a Naruto fan, I did not make this post just to defend Naruto specifically. I chose Naruto simply because many posts on Comicvine nowadays involves this.
Part I: How does "Almighty" Work
Right off the bat I want to establish that in Bleach, there are many possibilities that the future may eventually realise. Now this is slightly different from your typical "Divergence Timeline" theories that we are all familiar with, where all possible future exists. In Bleach, the future "jumps" from one to another possibility, hence the future is not deterministic. There is also only one past, so no convergence timeline either.
There's a few prepositions I see on how Almighty works:
- Almighty enables Yhwach to transform any part of reality to his own liking without limits. Basically reality warping but only limited to the future.
- Almighty enables Yhwach to apply his (other) powers to some time in the future as if it is the present. Something like Temporal Presence.
- Almighty enables Yhwach to pick which "possibility" he wants the future to be. In other words, choose the grain of sand he wants to jump to; Probability Manipulation
Option One: Reality Warping
This is quite a problematic option to say the least. What actually happens when "transforms the future"? Does he create new possibilities/grains of sand, so that he can realise even what was originally impossible? Or does he manipulate the existing possibilities? Does he manipulate all the possibilities such that there is no possibility in which he is defeated? Or does he manipulate the possibility that he foresee the future is on?
This option can be eliminated almost immediately because if that's true, he is invincible. He can erase Ichigo out of existence, or better, make Ichigo work for him, or create a 1000 Ichigo to form an army and wipe out Soul Society. This is the borderline omnipotence I see many fans imagine Yhwach as.
Okay so clearly he has his limits. What limits him then? Instead of randomly setting an arbitrary limitation, a reasonable answer would be that he only can apply his current powers on the future situation. Which brings us to Option Two.
Option 2: Temporal Presence
One thing to point out that it is clearly temporal presence of his powers, not himself. Yhwach doesn't create a virtual Yhwach into the future and start planting traps or absorb Aizen. When he chose to absorb Aizen in the present, the technique doesn't absorb the future Aizen into present Yhwach. It absorbs future Aizen into future Yhwach. Meaning even after he died, the technique would still work as he technically already activated it. It may sound like just a delayed technique, but a delayed technique doesn't work if the user died. It is something like reality warping of Izanagi from Naruto.
The weakness of this is that if Yhwach didn't activate the technique in the past, he would've gone for good. The dead Yhwach can't retrieve his powers from before.
This also explains how Yhwach sees all the possibilities, but still manage to get hit by Uryu's arrow. Because circumstances allows the future to jump from one grain of sand to another. And Yhwach only manipulated the grain of sand the future was on.
Option 3: Probability Manipulation
Yhwach manipulates the jumping of sand themselves. Yhwach could've put the traps on that position through normal means, and then manipulate the circumstances and chances such that Ichigo lands on them.
How it can explain his revival is that he made the future jumped to another grain of sand right before he dies, and the technique is activated after he died.
I'm not particularly fond of this as this limits his powers to what is conventionally possible only. Then is there a sand whereby Yhwach rise from the dead? Don't think so.
Part II: How did Aizen fool him
If Yhwach is able to see all possible futures, why didn't he see the future where he is under Aizen's hypnosis. Aizen's hypnosis is subtle and can only be discovered when it ends. It is different from say Infinite Tsukuyomi, where the victim knows they are in a Genjutsu.
Infinite Tsukuyomi is like "Virtual Reality" while Kyoka Suigetsu is like "Augmented Reality". It changes only the perception of something that is very much based on the real world. Since it affects all five senses, it also affects Yhwach's eyes.
Notice that Aizen have no idea what Yhwach sees. This might've kept the future "blurry" meaning the future is at the wrong possibility.
Also we have no idea how Aizen might've intelligently implemented his hypnosis so that Yhwach didn't even notice.
Part III: Why Yhwach cannot solo Narutoverse
Now just because Yhwach got into genjutsu once doesn't mean any genjutsu is enough to defeat him. Infinite Tsukuyomi didn't work on dead people, thus we can assume it doesn't work on souls. Even if we take that away, Yhwach still can release himself using Almighty.
Here are two ways Narutoverse can counter Yhwach:
Izanagi
Izanami is a jutsu specifically to counter Izanagi's changing destiny. If they manage to trap Yhwach in it, he would be basically standing still while his Almighty only works within the close loop of time.
However, having to trap Yhwach is not easy either since he can see the future of him standing still before it happens. Unless someone as intelligent as Itachi can pull this off, this may not work either.
Koto Amatsukami
The most interesting is Koto Amatsukami, which manipulates the target's memories and changes the target's ideals and values altogether, basically transforming their mind and identity to something else.
Now even if Yhwach tries to prevent this in the future, can this manipulated Yhwach counter his own technique? So it ends up being a Yhwach vs Yhwach situation.
Six Paths Chibaku Tensei
Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is a technique that takes away the chakra and closes the eye of Rinne Sharingan. We can safely assume that this can also close Yhwach's eyes too.
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#1
Posted by
FaradaySloth
(3426 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
- Show Bio
Yhwach doesn't solo Narutoverse but by sheer power/energy I believe he's the strongest in the HST
- Mr_Ingenuity
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#2
Posted by
Mr_Ingenuity
(14384 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
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TL;DR
He gets shit on by telepaths, high tier speed, and high tier time manipulators.
- Lan_Fan
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#3
Edited by
Lan_Fan
(8192 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
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He is.
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Posted by
Revold
(434 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
- Show Bio
Okay I've seen like a dozen Bleach vs Naruto battles popping up nowadays and I realised one of the most problematic issue in the debates is having no consensus on how "Almighty" works. So today we are going to tackle some very deep topics:
- How does Yhwach's "Almighty" work?
- How did Aizen fool him?
- Why Yhwach cannot solo the Narutoverse.
Now before you call me a Naruto fan, I did not make this post just to defend Naruto specifically. I chose Naruto simply because many posts on Comicvine nowadays involves this.
Part I: How does "Almighty" Work
Right off the bat I want to establish that in Bleach, there are many possibilities that the future may eventually realise. Now this is slightly different from your typical "Divergence Timeline" theories that we are all familiar with, where all possible future exists. In Bleach, the future "jumps" from one to another possibility, hence the future is not deterministic. There is also only one past, so no convergence timeline either.
There's a few prepositions I see on how Almighty works:
- Almighty enables Yhwach to transform any part of reality to his own liking without limits. Basically reality warping but only limited to the future.
- Almighty enables Yhwach to apply his (other) powers to some time in the future as if it is the present. Something like Temporal Presence.
- Almighty enables Yhwach to pick which "possibility" he wants the future to be. In other words, choose the grain of sand he wants to jump to; Probability Manipulation
Option One: Reality Warping
This is quite a problematic option to say the least. What actually happens when "transforms the future"? Does he create new possibilities/grains of sand, so that he can realise even what was originally impossible? Or does he manipulate the existing possibilities? Does he manipulate all the possibilities such that there is no possibility in which he is defeated? Or does he manipulate the possibility that he foresee the future is on?
This option can be eliminated almost immediately because if that's true, he is invincible. He can erase Ichigo out of existence, or better, make Ichigo work for him, or create a 1000 Ichigo to form an army and wipe out Soul Society. This is the borderline omnipotence I see many fans imagine Yhwach as.
Okay so clearly he has his limits. What limits him then? Instead of randomly setting an arbitrary limitation, a reasonable answer would be that he only can apply his current powers on the future situation. Which brings us to Option Two.
Option 2: Temporal Presence
One thing to point out that it is clearly temporal presence of his powers, not himself. Yhwach doesn't create a virtual Yhwach into the future and start planting traps or absorb Aizen. When he chose to absorb Aizen in the present, the technique doesn't absorb the future Aizen into present Yhwach. It absorbs future Aizen into future Yhwach. Meaning even after he died, the technique would still work as he technically already activated it. It may sound like just a delayed technique, but a delayed technique doesn't work if the user died. It is something like reality warping of Izanagi from Naruto.
The weakness of this is that if Yhwach didn't activate the technique in the past, he would've gone for good. The dead Yhwach can't retrieve his powers from before.
This also explains how Yhwach sees all the possibilities, but still manage to get hit by Uryu's arrow. Because circumstances allows the future to jump from one grain of sand to another. And Yhwach only manipulated the grain of sand the future was on.
Option 3: Probability Manipulation
Yhwach manipulates the jumping of sand themselves. Yhwach could've put the traps on that position through normal means, and then manipulate the circumstances and chances such that Ichigo lands on them.
How it can explain his revival is that he made the future jumped to another grain of sand right before he dies, and the technique is activated after he died.
I'm not particularly fond of this as this limits his powers to what is conventionally possible only. Then is there a sand whereby Yhwach rise from the dead? Don't think so.
Part II: How did Aizen fool him
If Yhwach is able to see all possible futures, why didn't he see the future where he is under Aizen's hypnosis. Aizen's hypnosis is subtle and can only be discovered when it ends. It is different from say Infinite Tsukuyomi, where the victim knows they are in a Genjutsu.
Infinite Tsukuyomi is like "Virtual Reality" while Kyoka Suigetsu is like "Augmented Reality". It changes only the perception of something that is very much based on the real world. Since it affects all five senses, it also affects Yhwach's eyes.
Notice that Aizen have no idea what Yhwach sees. This might've kept the future "blurry" meaning the future is at the wrong possibility.
Also we have no idea how Aizen might've intelligently implemented his hypnosis so that Yhwach didn't even notice.
Part III: Why Yhwach cannot solo Narutoverse
Now just because Yhwach got into genjutsu once doesn't mean any genjutsu is enough to defeat him. Infinite Tsukuyomi didn't work on dead people, thus we can assume it doesn't work on souls. Even if we take that away, Yhwach still can release himself using Almighty.
Here are two ways Narutoverse can counter Yhwach:
Izanagi
Izanami is a jutsu specifically to counter Izanagi's changing destiny. If they manage to trap Yhwach in it, he would be basically standing still while his Almighty only works within the close loop of time.
However, having to trap Yhwach is not easy either since he can see the future of him standing still before it happens. Unless someone as intelligent as Itachi can pull this off, this may not work either.
Koto Amatsukami
The most interesting is Koto Amatsukami, which manipulates the target's memories and changes the target's ideals and values altogether, basically transforming their mind and identity to something else.
Now even if Yhwach tries to prevent this in the future, can this manipulated Yhwach counter his own technique? So it ends up being a Yhwach vs Yhwach situation.
Six Paths Chibaku Tensei
Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is a technique that takes away the chakra and closes the eye of Rinne Sharingan. We can safely assume that this can also close Yhwach's eyes too.
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#1
Posted by
FaradaySloth
(3426 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
- Show Bio
Yhwach doesn't solo Narutoverse but by sheer power/energy I believe he's the strongest in the HST
- Mr_Ingenuity
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Forum Posts: 14384
Wiki Points: 295
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#2
Posted by
Mr_Ingenuity
(14384 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
- Show Bio
TL;DR
He gets shit on by telepaths, high tier speed, and high tier time manipulators.
- Lan_Fan
- Follow
Forum Posts: 8192
Wiki Points: 284
Followed by: 0
Reviews: 0 Lists: 0
#3
Edited by
Lan_Fan
(8192 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
- Show Bio
He is.
- Comic Vine
- Forums
- Gen. Discussion
Browse Boards
- Gen. Discussion
- Bug Reporting
- Delete/Combine Pages
- Artist Show-Off
- Off-Topic
- Contests
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Jump to Top
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Posted by
Revold
(434 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
- Show Bio
Okay I've seen like a dozen Bleach vs Naruto battles popping up nowadays and I realised one of the most problematic issue in the debates is having no consensus on how "Almighty" works. So today we are going to tackle some very deep topics:
- How does Yhwach's "Almighty" work?
- How did Aizen fool him?
- Why Yhwach cannot solo the Narutoverse.
Now before you call me a Naruto fan, I did not make this post just to defend Naruto specifically. I chose Naruto simply because many posts on Comicvine nowadays involves this.
Part I: How does "Almighty" Work
Right off the bat I want to establish that in Bleach, there are many possibilities that the future may eventually realise. Now this is slightly different from your typical "Divergence Timeline" theories that we are all familiar with, where all possible future exists. In Bleach, the future "jumps" from one to another possibility, hence the future is not deterministic. There is also only one past, so no convergence timeline either.
There's a few prepositions I see on how Almighty works:
- Almighty enables Yhwach to transform any part of reality to his own liking without limits. Basically reality warping but only limited to the future.
- Almighty enables Yhwach to apply his (other) powers to some time in the future as if it is the present. Something like Temporal Presence.
- Almighty enables Yhwach to pick which "possibility" he wants the future to be. In other words, choose the grain of sand he wants to jump to; Probability Manipulation
Option One: Reality Warping
This is quite a problematic option to say the least. What actually happens when "transforms the future"? Does he create new possibilities/grains of sand, so that he can realise even what was originally impossible? Or does he manipulate the existing possibilities? Does he manipulate all the possibilities such that there is no possibility in which he is defeated? Or does he manipulate the possibility that he foresee the future is on?
This option can be eliminated almost immediately because if that's true, he is invincible. He can erase Ichigo out of existence, or better, make Ichigo work for him, or create a 1000 Ichigo to form an army and wipe out Soul Society. This is the borderline omnipotence I see many fans imagine Yhwach as.
Okay so clearly he has his limits. What limits him then? Instead of randomly setting an arbitrary limitation, a reasonable answer would be that he only can apply his current powers on the future situation. Which brings us to Option Two.
Option 2: Temporal Presence
One thing to point out that it is clearly temporal presence of his powers, not himself. Yhwach doesn't create a virtual Yhwach into the future and start planting traps or absorb Aizen. When he chose to absorb Aizen in the present, the technique doesn't absorb the future Aizen into present Yhwach. It absorbs future Aizen into future Yhwach. Meaning even after he died, the technique would still work as he technically already activated it. It may sound like just a delayed technique, but a delayed technique doesn't work if the user died. It is something like reality warping of Izanagi from Naruto.
The weakness of this is that if Yhwach didn't activate the technique in the past, he would've gone for good. The dead Yhwach can't retrieve his powers from before.
This also explains how Yhwach sees all the possibilities, but still manage to get hit by Uryu's arrow. Because circumstances allows the future to jump from one grain of sand to another. And Yhwach only manipulated the grain of sand the future was on.
Option 3: Probability Manipulation
Yhwach manipulates the jumping of sand themselves. Yhwach could've put the traps on that position through normal means, and then manipulate the circumstances and chances such that Ichigo lands on them.
How it can explain his revival is that he made the future jumped to another grain of sand right before he dies, and the technique is activated after he died.
I'm not particularly fond of this as this limits his powers to what is conventionally possible only. Then is there a sand whereby Yhwach rise from the dead? Don't think so.
Part II: How did Aizen fool him
If Yhwach is able to see all possible futures, why didn't he see the future where he is under Aizen's hypnosis. Aizen's hypnosis is subtle and can only be discovered when it ends. It is different from say Infinite Tsukuyomi, where the victim knows they are in a Genjutsu.
Infinite Tsukuyomi is like "Virtual Reality" while Kyoka Suigetsu is like "Augmented Reality". It changes only the perception of something that is very much based on the real world. Since it affects all five senses, it also affects Yhwach's eyes.
Notice that Aizen have no idea what Yhwach sees. This might've kept the future "blurry" meaning the future is at the wrong possibility.
Also we have no idea how Aizen might've intelligently implemented his hypnosis so that Yhwach didn't even notice.
Part III: Why Yhwach cannot solo Narutoverse
Now just because Yhwach got into genjutsu once doesn't mean any genjutsu is enough to defeat him. Infinite Tsukuyomi didn't work on dead people, thus we can assume it doesn't work on souls. Even if we take that away, Yhwach still can release himself using Almighty.
Here are two ways Narutoverse can counter Yhwach:
Izanagi
Izanami is a jutsu specifically to counter Izanagi's changing destiny. If they manage to trap Yhwach in it, he would be basically standing still while his Almighty only works within the close loop of time.
However, having to trap Yhwach is not easy either since he can see the future of him standing still before it happens. Unless someone as intelligent as Itachi can pull this off, this may not work either.
Koto Amatsukami
The most interesting is Koto Amatsukami, which manipulates the target's memories and changes the target's ideals and values altogether, basically transforming their mind and identity to something else.
Now even if Yhwach tries to prevent this in the future, can this manipulated Yhwach counter his own technique? So it ends up being a Yhwach vs Yhwach situation.
Six Paths Chibaku Tensei
Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is a technique that takes away the chakra and closes the eye of Rinne Sharingan. We can safely assume that this can also close Yhwach's eyes too.
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#1
Posted by
FaradaySloth
(3426 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
- Show Bio
Yhwach doesn't solo Narutoverse but by sheer power/energy I believe he's the strongest in the HST
- Mr_Ingenuity
- Follow
Forum Posts: 14384
Wiki Points: 295
Followed by: 0
Reviews: 0 Lists: 0
#2
Posted by
Mr_Ingenuity
(14384 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
- Show Bio
TL;DR
He gets shit on by telepaths, high tier speed, and high tier time manipulators.
- Lan_Fan
- Follow
Forum Posts: 8192
Wiki Points: 284
Followed by: 0
Reviews: 0 Lists: 0
#3
Edited by
Lan_Fan
(8192 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
- Show Bio
He is.
- Comic Vine
- Forums
- Gen. Discussion
Browse Boards
- Gen. Discussion
- Bug Reporting
- Delete/Combine Pages
- Artist Show-Off
- Off-Topic
- Contests
- Battles
- Fan-Fic
- RPG
- Comic Book Preview
- API Developers
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- Podcast
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Jump to Top
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Please Log In to post.
- Revold
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Posted by
Revold
(434 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
- Show Bio
Okay I've seen like a dozen Bleach vs Naruto battles popping up nowadays and I realised one of the most problematic issue in the debates is having no consensus on how "Almighty" works. So today we are going to tackle some very deep topics:
- How does Yhwach's "Almighty" work?
- How did Aizen fool him?
- Why Yhwach cannot solo the Narutoverse.
Now before you call me a Naruto fan, I did not make this post just to defend Naruto specifically. I chose Naruto simply because many posts on Comicvine nowadays involves this.
Part I: How does "Almighty" Work
Right off the bat I want to establish that in Bleach, there are many possibilities that the future may eventually realise. Now this is slightly different from your typical "Divergence Timeline" theories that we are all familiar with, where all possible future exists. In Bleach, the future "jumps" from one to another possibility, hence the future is not deterministic. There is also only one past, so no convergence timeline either.
There's a few prepositions I see on how Almighty works:
- Almighty enables Yhwach to transform any part of reality to his own liking without limits. Basically reality warping but only limited to the future.
- Almighty enables Yhwach to apply his (other) powers to some time in the future as if it is the present. Something like Temporal Presence.
- Almighty enables Yhwach to pick which "possibility" he wants the future to be. In other words, choose the grain of sand he wants to jump to; Probability Manipulation
Option One: Reality Warping
This is quite a problematic option to say the least. What actually happens when "transforms the future"? Does he create new possibilities/grains of sand, so that he can realise even what was originally impossible? Or does he manipulate the existing possibilities? Does he manipulate all the possibilities such that there is no possibility in which he is defeated? Or does he manipulate the possibility that he foresee the future is on?
This option can be eliminated almost immediately because if that's true, he is invincible. He can erase Ichigo out of existence, or better, make Ichigo work for him, or create a 1000 Ichigo to form an army and wipe out Soul Society. This is the borderline omnipotence I see many fans imagine Yhwach as.
Okay so clearly he has his limits. What limits him then? Instead of randomly setting an arbitrary limitation, a reasonable answer would be that he only can apply his current powers on the future situation. Which brings us to Option Two.
Option 2: Temporal Presence
One thing to point out that it is clearly temporal presence of his powers, not himself. Yhwach doesn't create a virtual Yhwach into the future and start planting traps or absorb Aizen. When he chose to absorb Aizen in the present, the technique doesn't absorb the future Aizen into present Yhwach. It absorbs future Aizen into future Yhwach. Meaning even after he died, the technique would still work as he technically already activated it. It may sound like just a delayed technique, but a delayed technique doesn't work if the user died. It is something like reality warping of Izanagi from Naruto.
The weakness of this is that if Yhwach didn't activate the technique in the past, he would've gone for good. The dead Yhwach can't retrieve his powers from before.
This also explains how Yhwach sees all the possibilities, but still manage to get hit by Uryu's arrow. Because circumstances allows the future to jump from one grain of sand to another. And Yhwach only manipulated the grain of sand the future was on.
Option 3: Probability Manipulation
Yhwach manipulates the jumping of sand themselves. Yhwach could've put the traps on that position through normal means, and then manipulate the circumstances and chances such that Ichigo lands on them.
How it can explain his revival is that he made the future jumped to another grain of sand right before he dies, and the technique is activated after he died.
I'm not particularly fond of this as this limits his powers to what is conventionally possible only. Then is there a sand whereby Yhwach rise from the dead? Don't think so.
Part II: How did Aizen fool him
If Yhwach is able to see all possible futures, why didn't he see the future where he is under Aizen's hypnosis. Aizen's hypnosis is subtle and can only be discovered when it ends. It is different from say Infinite Tsukuyomi, where the victim knows they are in a Genjutsu.
Infinite Tsukuyomi is like "Virtual Reality" while Kyoka Suigetsu is like "Augmented Reality". It changes only the perception of something that is very much based on the real world. Since it affects all five senses, it also affects Yhwach's eyes.
Notice that Aizen have no idea what Yhwach sees. This might've kept the future "blurry" meaning the future is at the wrong possibility.
Also we have no idea how Aizen might've intelligently implemented his hypnosis so that Yhwach didn't even notice.
Part III: Why Yhwach cannot solo Narutoverse
Now just because Yhwach got into genjutsu once doesn't mean any genjutsu is enough to defeat him. Infinite Tsukuyomi didn't work on dead people, thus we can assume it doesn't work on souls. Even if we take that away, Yhwach still can release himself using Almighty.
Here are two ways Narutoverse can counter Yhwach:
Izanagi
Izanami is a jutsu specifically to counter Izanagi's changing destiny. If they manage to trap Yhwach in it, he would be basically standing still while his Almighty only works within the close loop of time.
However, having to trap Yhwach is not easy either since he can see the future of him standing still before it happens. Unless someone as intelligent as Itachi can pull this off, this may not work either.
Koto Amatsukami
The most interesting is Koto Amatsukami, which manipulates the target's memories and changes the target's ideals and values altogether, basically transforming their mind and identity to something else.
Now even if Yhwach tries to prevent this in the future, can this manipulated Yhwach counter his own technique? So it ends up being a Yhwach vs Yhwach situation.
Six Paths Chibaku Tensei
Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is a technique that takes away the chakra and closes the eye of Rinne Sharingan. We can safely assume that this can also close Yhwach's eyes too.
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- Revold
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Forum Posts: 434
Wiki Points: 0
Followed by: 1
Reviews: 0 Lists: 1
Posted by
Revold
(434 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
- Show Bio
Okay I've seen like a dozen Bleach vs Naruto battles popping up nowadays and I realised one of the most problematic issue in the debates is having no consensus on how "Almighty" works. So today we are going to tackle some very deep topics:
- How does Yhwach's "Almighty" work?
- How did Aizen fool him?
- Why Yhwach cannot solo the Narutoverse.
Now before you call me a Naruto fan, I did not make this post just to defend Naruto specifically. I chose Naruto simply because many posts on Comicvine nowadays involves this.
Part I: How does "Almighty" Work
Right off the bat I want to establish that in Bleach, there are many possibilities that the future may eventually realise. Now this is slightly different from your typical "Divergence Timeline" theories that we are all familiar with, where all possible future exists. In Bleach, the future "jumps" from one to another possibility, hence the future is not deterministic. There is also only one past, so no convergence timeline either.
There's a few prepositions I see on how Almighty works:
- Almighty enables Yhwach to transform any part of reality to his own liking without limits. Basically reality warping but only limited to the future.
- Almighty enables Yhwach to apply his (other) powers to some time in the future as if it is the present. Something like Temporal Presence.
- Almighty enables Yhwach to pick which "possibility" he wants the future to be. In other words, choose the grain of sand he wants to jump to; Probability Manipulation
Option One: Reality Warping
This is quite a problematic option to say the least. What actually happens when "transforms the future"? Does he create new possibilities/grains of sand, so that he can realise even what was originally impossible? Or does he manipulate the existing possibilities? Does he manipulate all the possibilities such that there is no possibility in which he is defeated? Or does he manipulate the possibility that he foresee the future is on?
This option can be eliminated almost immediately because if that's true, he is invincible. He can erase Ichigo out of existence, or better, make Ichigo work for him, or create a 1000 Ichigo to form an army and wipe out Soul Society. This is the borderline omnipotence I see many fans imagine Yhwach as.
Okay so clearly he has his limits. What limits him then? Instead of randomly setting an arbitrary limitation, a reasonable answer would be that he only can apply his current powers on the future situation. Which brings us to Option Two.
Option 2: Temporal Presence
One thing to point out that it is clearly temporal presence of his powers, not himself. Yhwach doesn't create a virtual Yhwach into the future and start planting traps or absorb Aizen. When he chose to absorb Aizen in the present, the technique doesn't absorb the future Aizen into present Yhwach. It absorbs future Aizen into future Yhwach. Meaning even after he died, the technique would still work as he technically already activated it. It may sound like just a delayed technique, but a delayed technique doesn't work if the user died. It is something like reality warping of Izanagi from Naruto.
The weakness of this is that if Yhwach didn't activate the technique in the past, he would've gone for good. The dead Yhwach can't retrieve his powers from before.
This also explains how Yhwach sees all the possibilities, but still manage to get hit by Uryu's arrow. Because circumstances allows the future to jump from one grain of sand to another. And Yhwach only manipulated the grain of sand the future was on.
Option 3: Probability Manipulation
Yhwach manipulates the jumping of sand themselves. Yhwach could've put the traps on that position through normal means, and then manipulate the circumstances and chances such that Ichigo lands on them.
How it can explain his revival is that he made the future jumped to another grain of sand right before he dies, and the technique is activated after he died.
I'm not particularly fond of this as this limits his powers to what is conventionally possible only. Then is there a sand whereby Yhwach rise from the dead? Don't think so.
Part II: How did Aizen fool him
If Yhwach is able to see all possible futures, why didn't he see the future where he is under Aizen's hypnosis. Aizen's hypnosis is subtle and can only be discovered when it ends. It is different from say Infinite Tsukuyomi, where the victim knows they are in a Genjutsu.
Infinite Tsukuyomi is like "Virtual Reality" while Kyoka Suigetsu is like "Augmented Reality". It changes only the perception of something that is very much based on the real world. Since it affects all five senses, it also affects Yhwach's eyes.
Notice that Aizen have no idea what Yhwach sees. This might've kept the future "blurry" meaning the future is at the wrong possibility.
Also we have no idea how Aizen might've intelligently implemented his hypnosis so that Yhwach didn't even notice.
Part III: Why Yhwach cannot solo Narutoverse
Now just because Yhwach got into genjutsu once doesn't mean any genjutsu is enough to defeat him. Infinite Tsukuyomi didn't work on dead people, thus we can assume it doesn't work on souls. Even if we take that away, Yhwach still can release himself using Almighty.
Here are two ways Narutoverse can counter Yhwach:
Izanagi
Izanami is a jutsu specifically to counter Izanagi's changing destiny. If they manage to trap Yhwach in it, he would be basically standing still while his Almighty only works within the close loop of time.
However, having to trap Yhwach is not easy either since he can see the future of him standing still before it happens. Unless someone as intelligent as Itachi can pull this off, this may not work either.
Koto Amatsukami
The most interesting is Koto Amatsukami, which manipulates the target's memories and changes the target's ideals and values altogether, basically transforming their mind and identity to something else.
Now even if Yhwach tries to prevent this in the future, can this manipulated Yhwach counter his own technique? So it ends up being a Yhwach vs Yhwach situation.
Six Paths Chibaku Tensei
Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is a technique that takes away the chakra and closes the eye of Rinne Sharingan. We can safely assume that this can also close Yhwach's eyes too.
Posted by
Revold
(434 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
- Show Bio
Okay I've seen like a dozen Bleach vs Naruto battles popping up nowadays and I realised one of the most problematic issue in the debates is having no consensus on how "Almighty" works. So today we are going to tackle some very deep topics:
- How does Yhwach's "Almighty" work?
- How did Aizen fool him?
- Why Yhwach cannot solo the Narutoverse.
Now before you call me a Naruto fan, I did not make this post just to defend Naruto specifically. I chose Naruto simply because many posts on Comicvine nowadays involves this.
Part I: How does "Almighty" Work
Right off the bat I want to establish that in Bleach, there are many possibilities that the future may eventually realise. Now this is slightly different from your typical "Divergence Timeline" theories that we are all familiar with, where all possible future exists. In Bleach, the future "jumps" from one to another possibility, hence the future is not deterministic. There is also only one past, so no convergence timeline either.
There's a few prepositions I see on how Almighty works:
- Almighty enables Yhwach to transform any part of reality to his own liking without limits. Basically reality warping but only limited to the future.
- Almighty enables Yhwach to apply his (other) powers to some time in the future as if it is the present. Something like Temporal Presence.
- Almighty enables Yhwach to pick which "possibility" he wants the future to be. In other words, choose the grain of sand he wants to jump to; Probability Manipulation
Option One: Reality Warping
This is quite a problematic option to say the least. What actually happens when "transforms the future"? Does he create new possibilities/grains of sand, so that he can realise even what was originally impossible? Or does he manipulate the existing possibilities? Does he manipulate all the possibilities such that there is no possibility in which he is defeated? Or does he manipulate the possibility that he foresee the future is on?
This option can be eliminated almost immediately because if that's true, he is invincible. He can erase Ichigo out of existence, or better, make Ichigo work for him, or create a 1000 Ichigo to form an army and wipe out Soul Society. This is the borderline omnipotence I see many fans imagine Yhwach as.
Okay so clearly he has his limits. What limits him then? Instead of randomly setting an arbitrary limitation, a reasonable answer would be that he only can apply his current powers on the future situation. Which brings us to Option Two.
Option 2: Temporal Presence
One thing to point out that it is clearly temporal presence of his powers, not himself. Yhwach doesn't create a virtual Yhwach into the future and start planting traps or absorb Aizen. When he chose to absorb Aizen in the present, the technique doesn't absorb the future Aizen into present Yhwach. It absorbs future Aizen into future Yhwach. Meaning even after he died, the technique would still work as he technically already activated it. It may sound like just a delayed technique, but a delayed technique doesn't work if the user died. It is something like reality warping of Izanagi from Naruto.
The weakness of this is that if Yhwach didn't activate the technique in the past, he would've gone for good. The dead Yhwach can't retrieve his powers from before.
This also explains how Yhwach sees all the possibilities, but still manage to get hit by Uryu's arrow. Because circumstances allows the future to jump from one grain of sand to another. And Yhwach only manipulated the grain of sand the future was on.
Option 3: Probability Manipulation
Yhwach manipulates the jumping of sand themselves. Yhwach could've put the traps on that position through normal means, and then manipulate the circumstances and chances such that Ichigo lands on them.
How it can explain his revival is that he made the future jumped to another grain of sand right before he dies, and the technique is activated after he died.
I'm not particularly fond of this as this limits his powers to what is conventionally possible only. Then is there a sand whereby Yhwach rise from the dead? Don't think so.
Part II: How did Aizen fool him
If Yhwach is able to see all possible futures, why didn't he see the future where he is under Aizen's hypnosis. Aizen's hypnosis is subtle and can only be discovered when it ends. It is different from say Infinite Tsukuyomi, where the victim knows they are in a Genjutsu.
Infinite Tsukuyomi is like "Virtual Reality" while Kyoka Suigetsu is like "Augmented Reality". It changes only the perception of something that is very much based on the real world. Since it affects all five senses, it also affects Yhwach's eyes.
Notice that Aizen have no idea what Yhwach sees. This might've kept the future "blurry" meaning the future is at the wrong possibility.
Also we have no idea how Aizen might've intelligently implemented his hypnosis so that Yhwach didn't even notice.
Part III: Why Yhwach cannot solo Narutoverse
Now just because Yhwach got into genjutsu once doesn't mean any genjutsu is enough to defeat him. Infinite Tsukuyomi didn't work on dead people, thus we can assume it doesn't work on souls. Even if we take that away, Yhwach still can release himself using Almighty.
Here are two ways Narutoverse can counter Yhwach:
Izanagi
Izanami is a jutsu specifically to counter Izanagi's changing destiny. If they manage to trap Yhwach in it, he would be basically standing still while his Almighty only works within the close loop of time.
However, having to trap Yhwach is not easy either since he can see the future of him standing still before it happens. Unless someone as intelligent as Itachi can pull this off, this may not work either.
Koto Amatsukami
The most interesting is Koto Amatsukami, which manipulates the target's memories and changes the target's ideals and values altogether, basically transforming their mind and identity to something else.
Now even if Yhwach tries to prevent this in the future, can this manipulated Yhwach counter his own technique? So it ends up being a Yhwach vs Yhwach situation.
Six Paths Chibaku Tensei
Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is a technique that takes away the chakra and closes the eye of Rinne Sharingan. We can safely assume that this can also close Yhwach's eyes too.
Posted by
Revold
(434 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
- Show Bio
Okay I've seen like a dozen Bleach vs Naruto battles popping up nowadays and I realised one of the most problematic issue in the debates is having no consensus on how "Almighty" works. So today we are going to tackle some very deep topics:
- How does Yhwach's "Almighty" work?
- How did Aizen fool him?
- Why Yhwach cannot solo the Narutoverse.
Now before you call me a Naruto fan, I did not make this post just to defend Naruto specifically. I chose Naruto simply because many posts on Comicvine nowadays involves this.
Part I: How does "Almighty" Work
Right off the bat I want to establish that in Bleach, there are many possibilities that the future may eventually realise. Now this is slightly different from your typical "Divergence Timeline" theories that we are all familiar with, where all possible future exists. In Bleach, the future "jumps" from one to another possibility, hence the future is not deterministic. There is also only one past, so no convergence timeline either.
There's a few prepositions I see on how Almighty works:
- Almighty enables Yhwach to transform any part of reality to his own liking without limits. Basically reality warping but only limited to the future.
- Almighty enables Yhwach to apply his (other) powers to some time in the future as if it is the present. Something like Temporal Presence.
- Almighty enables Yhwach to pick which "possibility" he wants the future to be. In other words, choose the grain of sand he wants to jump to; Probability Manipulation
Option One: Reality Warping
This is quite a problematic option to say the least. What actually happens when "transforms the future"? Does he create new possibilities/grains of sand, so that he can realise even what was originally impossible? Or does he manipulate the existing possibilities? Does he manipulate all the possibilities such that there is no possibility in which he is defeated? Or does he manipulate the possibility that he foresee the future is on?
This option can be eliminated almost immediately because if that's true, he is invincible. He can erase Ichigo out of existence, or better, make Ichigo work for him, or create a 1000 Ichigo to form an army and wipe out Soul Society. This is the borderline omnipotence I see many fans imagine Yhwach as.
Okay so clearly he has his limits. What limits him then? Instead of randomly setting an arbitrary limitation, a reasonable answer would be that he only can apply his current powers on the future situation. Which brings us to Option Two.
Option 2: Temporal Presence
One thing to point out that it is clearly temporal presence of his powers, not himself. Yhwach doesn't create a virtual Yhwach into the future and start planting traps or absorb Aizen. When he chose to absorb Aizen in the present, the technique doesn't absorb the future Aizen into present Yhwach. It absorbs future Aizen into future Yhwach. Meaning even after he died, the technique would still work as he technically already activated it. It may sound like just a delayed technique, but a delayed technique doesn't work if the user died. It is something like reality warping of Izanagi from Naruto.
The weakness of this is that if Yhwach didn't activate the technique in the past, he would've gone for good. The dead Yhwach can't retrieve his powers from before.
This also explains how Yhwach sees all the possibilities, but still manage to get hit by Uryu's arrow. Because circumstances allows the future to jump from one grain of sand to another. And Yhwach only manipulated the grain of sand the future was on.
Option 3: Probability Manipulation
Yhwach manipulates the jumping of sand themselves. Yhwach could've put the traps on that position through normal means, and then manipulate the circumstances and chances such that Ichigo lands on them.
How it can explain his revival is that he made the future jumped to another grain of sand right before he dies, and the technique is activated after he died.
I'm not particularly fond of this as this limits his powers to what is conventionally possible only. Then is there a sand whereby Yhwach rise from the dead? Don't think so.
Part II: How did Aizen fool him
If Yhwach is able to see all possible futures, why didn't he see the future where he is under Aizen's hypnosis. Aizen's hypnosis is subtle and can only be discovered when it ends. It is different from say Infinite Tsukuyomi, where the victim knows they are in a Genjutsu.
Infinite Tsukuyomi is like "Virtual Reality" while Kyoka Suigetsu is like "Augmented Reality". It changes only the perception of something that is very much based on the real world. Since it affects all five senses, it also affects Yhwach's eyes.
Notice that Aizen have no idea what Yhwach sees. This might've kept the future "blurry" meaning the future is at the wrong possibility.
Also we have no idea how Aizen might've intelligently implemented his hypnosis so that Yhwach didn't even notice.
Part III: Why Yhwach cannot solo Narutoverse
Now just because Yhwach got into genjutsu once doesn't mean any genjutsu is enough to defeat him. Infinite Tsukuyomi didn't work on dead people, thus we can assume it doesn't work on souls. Even if we take that away, Yhwach still can release himself using Almighty.
Here are two ways Narutoverse can counter Yhwach:
Izanagi
Izanami is a jutsu specifically to counter Izanagi's changing destiny. If they manage to trap Yhwach in it, he would be basically standing still while his Almighty only works within the close loop of time.
However, having to trap Yhwach is not easy either since he can see the future of him standing still before it happens. Unless someone as intelligent as Itachi can pull this off, this may not work either.
Koto Amatsukami
The most interesting is Koto Amatsukami, which manipulates the target's memories and changes the target's ideals and values altogether, basically transforming their mind and identity to something else.
Now even if Yhwach tries to prevent this in the future, can this manipulated Yhwach counter his own technique? So it ends up being a Yhwach vs Yhwach situation.
Six Paths Chibaku Tensei
Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is a technique that takes away the chakra and closes the eye of Rinne Sharingan. We can safely assume that this can also close Yhwach's eyes too.
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#1
Posted by
FaradaySloth
(3426 posts)
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Yhwach doesn't solo Narutoverse but by sheer power/energy I believe he's the strongest in the HST
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#1
Posted by
FaradaySloth
(3426 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
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Yhwach doesn't solo Narutoverse but by sheer power/energy I believe he's the strongest in the HST
#1
Posted by
FaradaySloth
(3426 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
- Show Bio
Yhwach doesn't solo Narutoverse but by sheer power/energy I believe he's the strongest in the HST
#1
Posted by
FaradaySloth
(3426 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
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Yhwach doesn't solo Narutoverse but by sheer power/energy I believe he's the strongest in the HST
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#2
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Mr_Ingenuity
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TL;DR
He gets shit on by telepaths, high tier speed, and high tier time manipulators.
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#2
Posted by
Mr_Ingenuity
(14384 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
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TL;DR
He gets shit on by telepaths, high tier speed, and high tier time manipulators.
#2
Posted by
Mr_Ingenuity
(14384 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
- Show Bio
TL;DR
He gets shit on by telepaths, high tier speed, and high tier time manipulators.
#2
Posted by
Mr_Ingenuity
(14384 posts)
- 1 month, 2 days ago
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TL;DR
He gets shit on by telepaths, high tier speed, and high tier time manipulators.
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#3
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He is.
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#3
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Lan_Fan
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He is.
#3
Edited by
Lan_Fan
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He is.
#3
Edited by
Lan_Fan
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He is.
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