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CaV: Okoye (ANTHP2000) VS Nuada (The_Red_Viper)




























CaV: Okoye (ANTHP2000) VS Nuada (The_Red_Viper)















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#1
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
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Representing Okoye, General of the Dora Milaje:


No Caption Provided

@anthp2000


Representing Nuada, Crown Prince of Bethmoora:


No Caption Provided

-Yours Truly


Rules:


  • In character.

  • No prep or prior knowledge.

  • Standard weapons and gear.

  • Standard elimination rules (death, KO, incapacitation).

  • Battle takes place here (start 10 meters apart facing each other.):




No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided



Challenge a Viner Rules:


  • For your vote to be counted it must not be based off the character, only the debater. Reasoning is appreciated=)

  • Regular posting, or making comments is perfectly fine. However, you are not permitted to interfere in the debate, post scans, nor start any separate debates with another user.

  • If you must correct either of us on a point or ask us a question regarding the debate, it would be appreciated if you would resort to asking us in a P.M.

  • As always, may the best debater win.



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#2
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
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@anthp2000 It's up. Everything seems good to you?



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#3
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
- Show Bio


@the_red_viper: Looks great, expect a post soon enough.












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#4
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
- Show Bio


@anthp2000: Awesome.



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#5
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 29 days, 17 hours ago
- Show Bio


I believe I'll be opening today/ almost fully downloaded Black Panther. Too bad I don't have the HD version of Avengers: Infinity War yet tho.












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#6
Posted by

geekryan
(2205 posts)
- 29 days, 16 hours ago
- Show Bio


T4V!












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#7
Posted by

KingCrimson
(4176 posts)
- 29 days, 15 hours ago
- Show Bio


This should be awesome. Good luck to you both!












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#8
Edited by
GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 7 hours ago
- Show Bio


OH BOY


Tag after everytime @anthp2000 post and for voting












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#9
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 6 hours ago
- Show Bio


@gearsecond659: So... you ain't gonna read my posts?



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#10
Posted by

GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 6 hours ago
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@the_red_viper: Oh I will. I am just more interested in what Okoye brings to the table and how she will be represented












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#11
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@gearsecond659: It's alright, I was kidding.



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#12
Posted by

GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@the_red_viper: lol. It's hard to tell someones intent just through reading text LMAO












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#13
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@gearsecond659: True, true.



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#14
Edited by
ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 25 days, 22 hours ago
- Show Bio




General Okoye


"Wakanda Forever!"


Okoye is the General of the Dora Milaje, the primary armed forces in Wakanda. Loyal to the King, Okoye and her army are the protectors of T'Challa, whom she first interacted with 10 years back, on a mission to apprehend two criminals who had kidnapped 2 soldiers of the Nation. When Killmonger became the King in 2018, Okoye was hesitant to assist in overthrowing him. Only upon seeing T'Challa was stil alive and (technically) hadn't lost the Ritual Combat challenge did she attempt to take down N'Jadaka and the Border Tribe. Wakanda opened up to the world, and it wasn't long until Thanos' invasion on Earth to retrieve the remaining Infinity Stones and wipe out half the Universe. During the Battle of Wakanda, Okoye faught alongside her fellow Wakandans and the Avengers, against hordes of Outriders, Proxima Midnight and Thanos himself.



Equipment


  • Dora Milaje Armor

  • Retractable Vibranium Spear

Melee Skill & Speed





I won't make a separate category for stats, since both combatants here utilise close range piercing weapons, though if something comes up regarding physical abilities such as strength or durability I will make sure to adress it. The important part here however, is that Okoye is a master melee fighter, and an extremely skilled fighter.



"In my mind, I saw Wakandans as a noble people, an ancient people, but in the comics, they’ve always been people who can fight really, really good. They’re incredibly dangerous. In all of them, that’s one thing that’s consistent. You don’t want to fight a Wakandan, whether it’s T’Challa, whether it’s any of them.


The casino scene, for me, was about Wakanda’s trying to hide. They’re trying to blend in. They’re trying their best not to make a scene, and eventually, they just can’t hold it in anymore. So I wanted each one of those three characters, they way that they fought to be different, and to be equally impressive."


"And then we wanted Okoye, who’s the cream of the crop of the Dora [Milaje, Black Panther’s personal bodyguards], to just be doing incredible stuff. Almost shocking, how skilled she is with this spear and how she’s taking on all these people."


Source: Director Ryan Coogler Talks ‘Black Panther’s Unbroken Casino Fight Shot, Obama’s Influence, and More [Interview]

Credit to the @thevivas for providing the accolades in his Respect Thread. I think it's worth noting that the director chooses to take note of Okoye's skill in particular, even with warriors as skilled as T'Challa part-taking in the sequence.


The most important aspect of the accolade however, is that Okoye is the "cream of the crop" of the Dora Milaje, which will be important in scaling her from the rest of the Dora Milaje below. Furthermore, Nakia entitled her "the greatest warrior Wakanda has", though it is worth noting that T'Challa was thought dead at the moment Regardless, this is important confirming her abilities among lower ranking officials of the Nation.


Accolades are great, but you need to be able to prove yourself through direct showings of combat. While Okoye hasn't had an amazing amount of screentime, her few sequences are evidence of her incredible skill.


No Caption Provided

During a mission to apprehend Ulysses Klaw, one of the most dangerous and accomplished criminals in the world, who was said to had stolen a Vibranium artifact from the Museum of Great Britain, King T'Challa handpicked the assistance of Nakia, a master spy, and Okoye to intercept a deal and take him in.


Once their cover was blown, they had to fight their way out of a horde of Klaw's mercenaries. Above we see Okoye using her retractable spear, throwing an opponent off-balance, disarming another the next one, piercing through his foot while simultaneously bashing him with the upper part, throwing her wig at the other one and throwing him out of the balcony.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Afterwards, we see Okoye fighting the combined efforts of 4 mercenaries at once, keeping all of them from closing in spinning her spear around every angle, countering one's attempt, disarming the next one and taking him down, stabbing the next, landing a headshot on the other and proceeding to hit and attempt to electrocute the other before kicking him out of the balcony.


It's worth noting that these mercenaries were rather top notch, capable of forcing T'Challa on the defensive for a few moments there, before taken down - again, I'd like to note that she wasn't T'Challa himself is a great warriors, with enhansed strength, speed and reflexes, training for his entire life, to the "highest levels" to fight. Okoye treating them like training bags in larger groups than the two that T'Challa faught, at 360 degrees and a relatively enclosed space, is very impressive.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

During Thanos' Invasion on Earth, a large Battle broke out in Wakanda, where one of the Infinity Stones was hidden. Proxima Midnight led Thanos' army herself in that battle, and Okoye faught against the alien hordes alongside T'Challa and the Avengers, right in the front line.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Focus on the background of this ability, right behind the hunk, you'll notice how the average Dora Milaje could fare against the Outriders. You'll see 1 of them on the far left taking one down in melee and moving on to the next one, while the one up close is fending off one, knocking another one down and dropping it with a headshot, hitting the charging one right in the neck and going back to the first one.


Keep in mind that the Outriders were capable of knocking down and almost overwhelming Tony Stark's Mark XLIV armor, a.k.a. the Hulkbuster armor, the same suit that "already kicked the crap outta the Hulk", by Banner's own word upon entering the battlefield. In short, the Outriders' physiology made it incredibly difficult for every superhuman on the field to overcome, they survived the outter Wakandan shields, which was considered mostly impossible, shrugged off the War Machine's most high calliver firepower, and their sheer savagery, jumping onto opponents using their 6 legs and attempting to tear their flesh off with their teeth, is what made them an incredible force to be reckoned with.


Practically, the average members of the Dora Milaje hardly qualify as 'cannon fodder'. Through sheer skill and the reach their weaponry allowed them, Okoye and the Dora Milaje held their own in the battle, pinpointing vital parts of the Outriders' bodies, parrying their bullrushes and taking out entire groups of them in little time. Okoye however, appears to be on an entirely different level than her soldier.


When Killmonger went up against 3 Dora Milaje members all at once, he seemingly remained untouched against every single one of them. That is, despite the fact the the Dora Milaje are, by word of God, trained to fight as one. You'll notice that for the most part, Okoye remains in the background, presumably waiting for an opening to strike a clean killershot.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Once Erik takes ahold of a soldier and executes her in front of her however, Okoye immediately joins the fight officially, landing a direct hit on Killmonger's shoulder, leading to another hit from a soldier next to her, and even that's not anywhere as direct as Okoye's.


Also, they're moving too fast to properly see, but those were direct hits, as we see the Panther suit lighting and absorbing the kinetic energy upon impact with the spears. Notice how Killmonger attempts to parry Okoye's hit but can't, all around demonstrating her superiority to the combined efforts of at least 2, I'd ague 3 Dora Milaje soldiers. The point at which she entered the fight, the tides turned quickly;


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

less than a minute afterwards, Okoye manages to parry a blow from Killmonger the right moment to give an opening to the other soldiers, ordering them to get Erik in a lock, use the shock function of their spears to stun him, drop him and attempt to remove the necklace, and therefore his suit, to take him down.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

While Okoye and the rest of the Dora were on the fields fighting in Wakanda, Ayo, the second highest ranking member of the army, remained in Shuri's lab to defend her and the Mind Stone. Corvus Glaive, one of Thanos' 4 most Elite warriors, attacked them however, and Ayo managed to hold him off for a few seconds, parrrying his hits and making attempts back at him.


This is impressive as Glaive is baltantly superhuman, strong enough to manhandle Captain America, a Super Soldier for whom I can provide strength showings later, and fast enough to deflect missiles and beams from one of the Infinity Stones.


Keep in mind that Glaive took down 2 Border Tribe members without any effort, dropping them with a swing of his blade, in the same sequence. The Border Tribe warriors were capable of fighting Outriders and matching the Dora Milaje themselves back in Killmonger's reign, once again demonstrating the difference between the named generals of the Milaje and the average soldiers, granted I wouldn't say the Border Tribe are precisely on par with the Dora - close enough to not make a difference.


Overall, Okoye has proven herself an exceptional martial artist and melee weapon specialist through her ability to fight large groups of skilled people, superhumans and the ability to keep up with higher tier combatants, which I can elaborate on later.




Equipment and Weapons





Being the main armed force in Wakanda is nothing to scoff at, Okoye's battle equipment is built by vibranium, the strongest metal ever shown in the MCU, making for quality armor and weapons.


Okoye's body armor is Vibranium Weave, identical to T'Challa's Black Panther suit. Basically, it's desgined to allow the user to be flexible, but is still built by Virbanium metal, capable of no-selling gunfire. The Dora Milaje armor covers Okoye's entire torso, meaning Nuada would have to target on secondary spots of the body to take her down.


Okoye's weapon of choice is the Vibranium spear given to the Dora Milaje soldiers. This is one of the very best weapons you'll find in street level fights;


  • the metal from which is built is incredibly tough, moreso than most metals

  • it offers an enormous reach advantage to the user, notice just how long it is, making Okoye's range in close combat twice as long

  • the edge of it can pierce through the most powerful of objects, armors and bodies, we've seen it cutting clean through dense vibranium

  • they allow for a high coltage shock function on both the sides and the edge, capable of conducting electricity through the sword and stunning Nuada, slowing or even putting him down

No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

While chasing down Klaw and his mercenaries in the streets of Busan, in a classic car chase sequence, Okoye threw her spear directly through the car's windows, landing in front of it, piercing the street and downright stonewalling and damaging a high speeding car. Such output would not only allow for incredible defence and parrying contests, but also the capacity to drop Nuada with a few indirect hits, easily piercing through his skin with an ideal clean hit.




Opening Thoughts


I won't talk much about the fight itself since my knowledge on Pricne Nuada is rather limited, however I will sum up Okoye's threat level;


  • Okoye is a master combatant, outfighting large groups of elite fodder from every angle, outperforming her fellow Dora Milaje soldiers, who themselves managed to fight off the superhumans on Thanos' invasion incredibly efficiently and keeping pace with Avenger level fighter (again, something I'll elaborate on later)

  • Okoye has an extreme weaponry advantage, tough as hell and even more dangerous allowing for superior reach and capacity to take out Nuada in a single hit

@the_red_viperYou're up!












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#15
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 25 days, 22 hours ago
- Show Bio


@the_red_viper sorry for the delay, my computer was being a little stupid

@gearsecond659 post is up.












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#16
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 25 days, 17 hours ago
- Show Bio


@anthp2000: Awesome. I got some stuff to take care of first but I'll get to this as soon as I can.



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#17
Posted by

Riddlerfan77
(3908 posts)
- 25 days, 16 hours ago
- Show Bio


T4V and after every post.












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#18
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 16 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@anthp2000: Hey, do know that I haven't forgotten about this. I was already busy with writing my post for my CaV with @wyldsong when you posted your opener, and it took longer than I expected. I only got it over with tonight. I'll start writing my opener as soon as I can, I make no promises but I think you can expect it by the end of the week.



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#19
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 15 days, 3 hours ago
- Show Bio


@the_red_viper:


No worries, I probably won't be posting for some time either, my computer is having some real difficulty - and of course that had to happen in the middle of like 5 ongoing CaVs.












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#20
Edited by
the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 13 days, 6 hours ago
- Show Bio


@anthp2000: Alright, here we go. Sorry for the long wait. Anyway...


Prince Nuada's theme song for this fight:


Loading Video...

Introducing Prince Nuada Silverlance:


No Caption Provided

"I am Prince Nuada Silverlance, Son of King Balor. And I am here, sir, to reclaim what is rightfully mine."


Nuada, Crown Prince of Bethmoora, is the son of King Balor and twin brother of Princess Nuala.


The legends say, that at the dawn of time, man, beast and all magical beings lived together in peace. But, greed and lust for power corrupted mankind, and they waged war against all the other species, seeking to rule the Earth. One day, the head of the Goblin blacksmiths, approached King Balor and offered to build him a golden army of 70 times 70 automated soldiers who know no pain or remorse and cannot be defeated. Prince Nuada urged his father to take the offer, and so the army was built, and when mankind attacked once more - they were faced with an army that they could not defeat, and died by the thousands. King Balor then decided that he wants no more bloodshed, and struck an eternal truce with mankind. But, Prince Nuada did not trust the promises of mankind, and went into exile - vowing to return when his people needed him most.


These legends happen to be true, and Prince Nuada did return - seeking the three pieces of the crown that gives its wearer control over the Golden Army, in order to bring down mankind once and for all.


Nuada has only appeared in the movie "Hellboy II: The Golden Army", and as such has a very limited number of feats, so my posts here won't be very long. That being said, what he does have is very impressive.


Stats:





Nuada's biggest advantage here is where stats are concerned. First of all, strength. I won't dwell too much on that because it's pretty straightforward. Nuada has matched strength with Hellboy:


No Caption Provided

Who matched strength with a speeding car:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

I can show you many of Hellboy's strength feats if you want. Basically, he is a multi-tonner, a bit above MCU Super-Soldier tier. Okoye's not what I'd call weak by any means, but she is not as strong as Hellboy, and in turn Nuada.


Nuada can put his strength to good use by ragdolling Okoye with strikes from the blunt end of his spear, like so:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Other than that, there's speed and agility. It will be best demonstrated when seeing his full fight-scenes, so I'll leave it to be discussed alongside skill.




Skill:





I won't lie, Okoye is very skilled. However, Nuada is more skilled. He just has better feats against better, and more numerous opponents.


Before I start showing you feats, I'll urge you to pay close attention not only to Nuada's martial skill, but also his speed and agility. They're hard to demonstrate without viewing full fight-scenes which is why I preferred discussing them here.


First of all, before moving on to the actual feats, I'd like to point out that Nuada is far more experienced than Okoye. He's lived in what the legends call "the dawn of time", an age before recorded history. That means thousands and thousands of years at least, in which Nuada trained, fought and gained experience as a warrior. As opposed to Okoye, who should be... in her early thirties? Less even?


However that's mostly just a side-note; experience is only worth anything when there are feats to back it up. Luckily, Nuada has them. First of all, here's Nuada's first scene in the movie - where you see him practicing his spearplay. No enemies here, but the ridiculous level of dexterity that he has with his weapon, his agility and his precision - slicing a water droplet in half - are all very evident in here.


Now, let's talk about how Nuada copes when facing multiple enemies. Okoye has a nice showing against Klaw's thugs, however Nuada has an even better one. As you can see, Nuada goes solo against a whole squad of King Balor's royal guards. Well, Wink (the ogre) kills 2 of them but he stays out of the main part of the fight. Anyway, Nuada kills about a dozen of them - at least 8 had him surrounded and attacked him pretty much at the same time, and he got tagged only once with a weak punch to the nose. Do note how he started the fight unarmed and took one of the guards' swords after breaking his arm with a move that even Rey Mysterio would be jealous of. Okoye's feat is good; Nuada's feat is better. And I'll say that those warriors were probably far more dangerous that Klaw's thugs: first of all, they were armed whereas Klaw's guys weren't. Second, they were royal guards - it only stands to reason that they'd be highly trained, top-quality warriors of skill worthy to protect a king. You said Klaw's guys gave Panther trouble, but I think that trying to kick him 3 or 4 times, when he's crouching and they aren't, and getting all their kicks blocked - doesn't really count as putting him on the defensive. I don't see it as a good enough indication that they were anything more than somewhat-above-average crooks. All in all, I see Nuada's feat as overall superior.


Nuada's skill has a couple more showings to discuss, but not many and I'd rather save them for my next post to give it a bit more juice. I think that'd be enough for now.




Gear:





Nuada's only gear here is his spear. You've already seen that it's retractable and can be fought as a short weapon or as a long one. However, it's a magical spear, capable of hurting Hellboy:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Also here:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

And Hellboy, of course, has enhanced durability to practically all types of damage - piercing damage included. For example, a ton of Tooth Fairies had no effect on him:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

The Tooth Fairies could strip off a man's skin and flesh in seconds:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

There was also Kroenen, who only gave Hellboy a small nick on the nose with his tonfa blades:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

For comparison, Kroenen's blades can cut through stone like butter:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Anyway, Hellboy's pretty damn resistant to damage. Nuada's spear still cut him just fine with ease. It's possible that it would also cut through Okoye's armor.




A few counters:





1. The Outriders:


You made a point about scaling Okoye off the other Dora Milaje soldiers who were able to fight Outriders. Now, I'd like to state something that you may disagree with: Outriders are extremely overrated. They caused so many problems to the Avengers and Wakanda's army because of their relative physical prowess which is above that of a human, their sheer numbers and their total disregard for both pain and for their own well-being. They were basically mindless zombies on steroids. One Outrider alone is not really a threat to any warrior with even sightly above-average level of skill, especially when that warrior has reach advantage (which the Dora had thanks to their spears). The Outriders had no skill whatsoever and were basically just huge berserkers. A Dora Milaje soldier taking Outriders one-on-one, even 2 of them in quick succession, isn't really super impressive. It's not comparable to Steve and T'challa who were fighting the Outriders many at a time like the total badasses that they obviously are. And the Outriders only gave Hulkbuster trouble because Banner could barely even walk in this thing without tripping all over himself, let alone fight effectively. He wasn't even flying and was barely using his weapons (and when he did he mostly missed). He just tried to out-brawl them and eventually went down to the Outriders' sheer numbers and their total lack of fear and inability to feel pain. Put Tony in the suit instead of Banner and he would have probably been more effective in that battle than Thor was.


2. Reach:


You said Okoye has reach advantage, which is untrue. Nuada's spear is just as long as Okoye's if not more so, and he is also taller than her. The actress who plays Okoye, Danai Gurira, is 1.70 m tall. Luke Goss, the actor who plays Nuada, is 1.85 m tall. That makes Nuada half a foot taller than Okoye. So the reach advantage is in fact Nuada's, definitely not Okoye's.


3. Armor:


Probably Okoye's biggest advantage here, but it can be countered in several ways. First of all, Nuada's magic spear might just be able to pierce it since it pierced Hellboy. Neither of us can prove whether or not it will pierce the armor, so I'll leave it alone for now. Other than that, there's the fact that Nuada can use the blund end of his spear to toss Okoye around. He can even BFR her out of the arena and into the ocean, letting her drown. Or he can just throw her off her feet, whichever works for him. Then there's the fact that some of Okoye's body is still vulnerable - her hands are unprotected, and most importantly her head and neck are unprotected as well. Nuada's precision is pretty incredible as you have seen, he is able to slice a water droplet in mid-air clean in half as it's falling:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

So putting a precision shot in Okoye's neck or head isn't that much of a challenge for him.


4. Glaive and Ayo:


You said it yourself, Ayo held Glaive off for just a few seconds. She didn't really give him a fight or a challenge of any kind, him not one-shotting her doesn't make it all that impressive. All in all, the Dora Milaje are good warriors - but not true elites, I think the Jabari are a lot more impressive (speaking of which, when Nakia called Okoye the greatest warrior in Wakanda, it was before she witnessed the might of the Jabari, and especially M'Baku who I found to be more impressive than Okoye). Okoye is definitely better than any individual Dora as is appropriate for their leader, which is nice all in itself, but that doesn't really mean a whole lot.




Summary:


Nuada is stronger and more agile than Okoye, and at least as fast. He has the strength to send Okoye flying with a single hit from the blunt end of his weapon, and his agility combined with his reach advantage will make him very hard to tag. His showing against multiple opponents is better than Okoye's as well, and you'll see some more of his skill in my next post. Okoye's biggest advantage is the armor, but Nuada's got several ways of dealing with it which I detailed above.


Anyway, that will be it for my opener. Your move again my friend ;)



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#21
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 13 days, 6 hours ago
- Show Bio


@riddlerfan77:



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#22
Posted by

Kevd4wg
(8354 posts)
- 13 days, 6 hours ago
- Show Bio


T4V












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#23
Posted by

JSDoctor
(1162 posts)
- 13 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


T4V please












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#24
Posted by

Riddlerfan77
(3908 posts)
- 13 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@the_red_viper: Nice opener.












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#25
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 13 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@riddlerfan77: Thank you.



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CaV: Okoye (ANTHP2000) VS Nuada (The_Red_Viper)















Avatar image for the_red_viper



#1
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
- Show Bio


Representing Okoye, General of the Dora Milaje:


No Caption Provided

@anthp2000


Representing Nuada, Crown Prince of Bethmoora:


No Caption Provided

-Yours Truly


Rules:


  • In character.

  • No prep or prior knowledge.

  • Standard weapons and gear.

  • Standard elimination rules (death, KO, incapacitation).

  • Battle takes place here (start 10 meters apart facing each other.):




No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided



Challenge a Viner Rules:


  • For your vote to be counted it must not be based off the character, only the debater. Reasoning is appreciated=)

  • Regular posting, or making comments is perfectly fine. However, you are not permitted to interfere in the debate, post scans, nor start any separate debates with another user.

  • If you must correct either of us on a point or ask us a question regarding the debate, it would be appreciated if you would resort to asking us in a P.M.

  • As always, may the best debater win.



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#2
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
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@anthp2000 It's up. Everything seems good to you?



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#3
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
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@the_red_viper: Looks great, expect a post soon enough.












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#4
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
- Show Bio


@anthp2000: Awesome.



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#5
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 29 days, 17 hours ago
- Show Bio


I believe I'll be opening today/ almost fully downloaded Black Panther. Too bad I don't have the HD version of Avengers: Infinity War yet tho.












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#6
Posted by

geekryan
(2205 posts)
- 29 days, 16 hours ago
- Show Bio


T4V!












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#7
Posted by

KingCrimson
(4176 posts)
- 29 days, 15 hours ago
- Show Bio


This should be awesome. Good luck to you both!












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#8
Edited by
GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 7 hours ago
- Show Bio


OH BOY


Tag after everytime @anthp2000 post and for voting












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#9
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 6 hours ago
- Show Bio


@gearsecond659: So... you ain't gonna read my posts?



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#10
Posted by

GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 6 hours ago
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@the_red_viper: Oh I will. I am just more interested in what Okoye brings to the table and how she will be represented












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#11
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@gearsecond659: It's alright, I was kidding.



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#12
Posted by

GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@the_red_viper: lol. It's hard to tell someones intent just through reading text LMAO












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#13
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@gearsecond659: True, true.



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#14
Edited by
ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 25 days, 22 hours ago
- Show Bio




General Okoye


"Wakanda Forever!"


Okoye is the General of the Dora Milaje, the primary armed forces in Wakanda. Loyal to the King, Okoye and her army are the protectors of T'Challa, whom she first interacted with 10 years back, on a mission to apprehend two criminals who had kidnapped 2 soldiers of the Nation. When Killmonger became the King in 2018, Okoye was hesitant to assist in overthrowing him. Only upon seeing T'Challa was stil alive and (technically) hadn't lost the Ritual Combat challenge did she attempt to take down N'Jadaka and the Border Tribe. Wakanda opened up to the world, and it wasn't long until Thanos' invasion on Earth to retrieve the remaining Infinity Stones and wipe out half the Universe. During the Battle of Wakanda, Okoye faught alongside her fellow Wakandans and the Avengers, against hordes of Outriders, Proxima Midnight and Thanos himself.



Equipment


  • Dora Milaje Armor

  • Retractable Vibranium Spear

Melee Skill & Speed





I won't make a separate category for stats, since both combatants here utilise close range piercing weapons, though if something comes up regarding physical abilities such as strength or durability I will make sure to adress it. The important part here however, is that Okoye is a master melee fighter, and an extremely skilled fighter.



"In my mind, I saw Wakandans as a noble people, an ancient people, but in the comics, they’ve always been people who can fight really, really good. They’re incredibly dangerous. In all of them, that’s one thing that’s consistent. You don’t want to fight a Wakandan, whether it’s T’Challa, whether it’s any of them.


The casino scene, for me, was about Wakanda’s trying to hide. They’re trying to blend in. They’re trying their best not to make a scene, and eventually, they just can’t hold it in anymore. So I wanted each one of those three characters, they way that they fought to be different, and to be equally impressive."


"And then we wanted Okoye, who’s the cream of the crop of the Dora [Milaje, Black Panther’s personal bodyguards], to just be doing incredible stuff. Almost shocking, how skilled she is with this spear and how she’s taking on all these people."


Source: Director Ryan Coogler Talks ‘Black Panther’s Unbroken Casino Fight Shot, Obama’s Influence, and More [Interview]

Credit to the @thevivas for providing the accolades in his Respect Thread. I think it's worth noting that the director chooses to take note of Okoye's skill in particular, even with warriors as skilled as T'Challa part-taking in the sequence.


The most important aspect of the accolade however, is that Okoye is the "cream of the crop" of the Dora Milaje, which will be important in scaling her from the rest of the Dora Milaje below. Furthermore, Nakia entitled her "the greatest warrior Wakanda has", though it is worth noting that T'Challa was thought dead at the moment Regardless, this is important confirming her abilities among lower ranking officials of the Nation.


Accolades are great, but you need to be able to prove yourself through direct showings of combat. While Okoye hasn't had an amazing amount of screentime, her few sequences are evidence of her incredible skill.


No Caption Provided

During a mission to apprehend Ulysses Klaw, one of the most dangerous and accomplished criminals in the world, who was said to had stolen a Vibranium artifact from the Museum of Great Britain, King T'Challa handpicked the assistance of Nakia, a master spy, and Okoye to intercept a deal and take him in.


Once their cover was blown, they had to fight their way out of a horde of Klaw's mercenaries. Above we see Okoye using her retractable spear, throwing an opponent off-balance, disarming another the next one, piercing through his foot while simultaneously bashing him with the upper part, throwing her wig at the other one and throwing him out of the balcony.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Afterwards, we see Okoye fighting the combined efforts of 4 mercenaries at once, keeping all of them from closing in spinning her spear around every angle, countering one's attempt, disarming the next one and taking him down, stabbing the next, landing a headshot on the other and proceeding to hit and attempt to electrocute the other before kicking him out of the balcony.


It's worth noting that these mercenaries were rather top notch, capable of forcing T'Challa on the defensive for a few moments there, before taken down - again, I'd like to note that she wasn't T'Challa himself is a great warriors, with enhansed strength, speed and reflexes, training for his entire life, to the "highest levels" to fight. Okoye treating them like training bags in larger groups than the two that T'Challa faught, at 360 degrees and a relatively enclosed space, is very impressive.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

During Thanos' Invasion on Earth, a large Battle broke out in Wakanda, where one of the Infinity Stones was hidden. Proxima Midnight led Thanos' army herself in that battle, and Okoye faught against the alien hordes alongside T'Challa and the Avengers, right in the front line.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Focus on the background of this ability, right behind the hunk, you'll notice how the average Dora Milaje could fare against the Outriders. You'll see 1 of them on the far left taking one down in melee and moving on to the next one, while the one up close is fending off one, knocking another one down and dropping it with a headshot, hitting the charging one right in the neck and going back to the first one.


Keep in mind that the Outriders were capable of knocking down and almost overwhelming Tony Stark's Mark XLIV armor, a.k.a. the Hulkbuster armor, the same suit that "already kicked the crap outta the Hulk", by Banner's own word upon entering the battlefield. In short, the Outriders' physiology made it incredibly difficult for every superhuman on the field to overcome, they survived the outter Wakandan shields, which was considered mostly impossible, shrugged off the War Machine's most high calliver firepower, and their sheer savagery, jumping onto opponents using their 6 legs and attempting to tear their flesh off with their teeth, is what made them an incredible force to be reckoned with.


Practically, the average members of the Dora Milaje hardly qualify as 'cannon fodder'. Through sheer skill and the reach their weaponry allowed them, Okoye and the Dora Milaje held their own in the battle, pinpointing vital parts of the Outriders' bodies, parrying their bullrushes and taking out entire groups of them in little time. Okoye however, appears to be on an entirely different level than her soldier.


When Killmonger went up against 3 Dora Milaje members all at once, he seemingly remained untouched against every single one of them. That is, despite the fact the the Dora Milaje are, by word of God, trained to fight as one. You'll notice that for the most part, Okoye remains in the background, presumably waiting for an opening to strike a clean killershot.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Once Erik takes ahold of a soldier and executes her in front of her however, Okoye immediately joins the fight officially, landing a direct hit on Killmonger's shoulder, leading to another hit from a soldier next to her, and even that's not anywhere as direct as Okoye's.


Also, they're moving too fast to properly see, but those were direct hits, as we see the Panther suit lighting and absorbing the kinetic energy upon impact with the spears. Notice how Killmonger attempts to parry Okoye's hit but can't, all around demonstrating her superiority to the combined efforts of at least 2, I'd ague 3 Dora Milaje soldiers. The point at which she entered the fight, the tides turned quickly;


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

less than a minute afterwards, Okoye manages to parry a blow from Killmonger the right moment to give an opening to the other soldiers, ordering them to get Erik in a lock, use the shock function of their spears to stun him, drop him and attempt to remove the necklace, and therefore his suit, to take him down.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

While Okoye and the rest of the Dora were on the fields fighting in Wakanda, Ayo, the second highest ranking member of the army, remained in Shuri's lab to defend her and the Mind Stone. Corvus Glaive, one of Thanos' 4 most Elite warriors, attacked them however, and Ayo managed to hold him off for a few seconds, parrrying his hits and making attempts back at him.


This is impressive as Glaive is baltantly superhuman, strong enough to manhandle Captain America, a Super Soldier for whom I can provide strength showings later, and fast enough to deflect missiles and beams from one of the Infinity Stones.


Keep in mind that Glaive took down 2 Border Tribe members without any effort, dropping them with a swing of his blade, in the same sequence. The Border Tribe warriors were capable of fighting Outriders and matching the Dora Milaje themselves back in Killmonger's reign, once again demonstrating the difference between the named generals of the Milaje and the average soldiers, granted I wouldn't say the Border Tribe are precisely on par with the Dora - close enough to not make a difference.


Overall, Okoye has proven herself an exceptional martial artist and melee weapon specialist through her ability to fight large groups of skilled people, superhumans and the ability to keep up with higher tier combatants, which I can elaborate on later.




Equipment and Weapons





Being the main armed force in Wakanda is nothing to scoff at, Okoye's battle equipment is built by vibranium, the strongest metal ever shown in the MCU, making for quality armor and weapons.


Okoye's body armor is Vibranium Weave, identical to T'Challa's Black Panther suit. Basically, it's desgined to allow the user to be flexible, but is still built by Virbanium metal, capable of no-selling gunfire. The Dora Milaje armor covers Okoye's entire torso, meaning Nuada would have to target on secondary spots of the body to take her down.


Okoye's weapon of choice is the Vibranium spear given to the Dora Milaje soldiers. This is one of the very best weapons you'll find in street level fights;


  • the metal from which is built is incredibly tough, moreso than most metals

  • it offers an enormous reach advantage to the user, notice just how long it is, making Okoye's range in close combat twice as long

  • the edge of it can pierce through the most powerful of objects, armors and bodies, we've seen it cutting clean through dense vibranium

  • they allow for a high coltage shock function on both the sides and the edge, capable of conducting electricity through the sword and stunning Nuada, slowing or even putting him down

No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

While chasing down Klaw and his mercenaries in the streets of Busan, in a classic car chase sequence, Okoye threw her spear directly through the car's windows, landing in front of it, piercing the street and downright stonewalling and damaging a high speeding car. Such output would not only allow for incredible defence and parrying contests, but also the capacity to drop Nuada with a few indirect hits, easily piercing through his skin with an ideal clean hit.




Opening Thoughts


I won't talk much about the fight itself since my knowledge on Pricne Nuada is rather limited, however I will sum up Okoye's threat level;


  • Okoye is a master combatant, outfighting large groups of elite fodder from every angle, outperforming her fellow Dora Milaje soldiers, who themselves managed to fight off the superhumans on Thanos' invasion incredibly efficiently and keeping pace with Avenger level fighter (again, something I'll elaborate on later)

  • Okoye has an extreme weaponry advantage, tough as hell and even more dangerous allowing for superior reach and capacity to take out Nuada in a single hit

@the_red_viperYou're up!












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#15
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 25 days, 22 hours ago
- Show Bio


@the_red_viper sorry for the delay, my computer was being a little stupid

@gearsecond659 post is up.












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#16
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 25 days, 17 hours ago
- Show Bio


@anthp2000: Awesome. I got some stuff to take care of first but I'll get to this as soon as I can.



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#17
Posted by

Riddlerfan77
(3908 posts)
- 25 days, 16 hours ago
- Show Bio


T4V and after every post.












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#18
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 16 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@anthp2000: Hey, do know that I haven't forgotten about this. I was already busy with writing my post for my CaV with @wyldsong when you posted your opener, and it took longer than I expected. I only got it over with tonight. I'll start writing my opener as soon as I can, I make no promises but I think you can expect it by the end of the week.



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#19
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 15 days, 3 hours ago
- Show Bio


@the_red_viper:


No worries, I probably won't be posting for some time either, my computer is having some real difficulty - and of course that had to happen in the middle of like 5 ongoing CaVs.












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#20
Edited by
the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 13 days, 6 hours ago
- Show Bio


@anthp2000: Alright, here we go. Sorry for the long wait. Anyway...


Prince Nuada's theme song for this fight:


Loading Video...

Introducing Prince Nuada Silverlance:


No Caption Provided

"I am Prince Nuada Silverlance, Son of King Balor. And I am here, sir, to reclaim what is rightfully mine."


Nuada, Crown Prince of Bethmoora, is the son of King Balor and twin brother of Princess Nuala.


The legends say, that at the dawn of time, man, beast and all magical beings lived together in peace. But, greed and lust for power corrupted mankind, and they waged war against all the other species, seeking to rule the Earth. One day, the head of the Goblin blacksmiths, approached King Balor and offered to build him a golden army of 70 times 70 automated soldiers who know no pain or remorse and cannot be defeated. Prince Nuada urged his father to take the offer, and so the army was built, and when mankind attacked once more - they were faced with an army that they could not defeat, and died by the thousands. King Balor then decided that he wants no more bloodshed, and struck an eternal truce with mankind. But, Prince Nuada did not trust the promises of mankind, and went into exile - vowing to return when his people needed him most.


These legends happen to be true, and Prince Nuada did return - seeking the three pieces of the crown that gives its wearer control over the Golden Army, in order to bring down mankind once and for all.


Nuada has only appeared in the movie "Hellboy II: The Golden Army", and as such has a very limited number of feats, so my posts here won't be very long. That being said, what he does have is very impressive.


Stats:





Nuada's biggest advantage here is where stats are concerned. First of all, strength. I won't dwell too much on that because it's pretty straightforward. Nuada has matched strength with Hellboy:


No Caption Provided

Who matched strength with a speeding car:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

I can show you many of Hellboy's strength feats if you want. Basically, he is a multi-tonner, a bit above MCU Super-Soldier tier. Okoye's not what I'd call weak by any means, but she is not as strong as Hellboy, and in turn Nuada.


Nuada can put his strength to good use by ragdolling Okoye with strikes from the blunt end of his spear, like so:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Other than that, there's speed and agility. It will be best demonstrated when seeing his full fight-scenes, so I'll leave it to be discussed alongside skill.




Skill:





I won't lie, Okoye is very skilled. However, Nuada is more skilled. He just has better feats against better, and more numerous opponents.


Before I start showing you feats, I'll urge you to pay close attention not only to Nuada's martial skill, but also his speed and agility. They're hard to demonstrate without viewing full fight-scenes which is why I preferred discussing them here.


First of all, before moving on to the actual feats, I'd like to point out that Nuada is far more experienced than Okoye. He's lived in what the legends call "the dawn of time", an age before recorded history. That means thousands and thousands of years at least, in which Nuada trained, fought and gained experience as a warrior. As opposed to Okoye, who should be... in her early thirties? Less even?


However that's mostly just a side-note; experience is only worth anything when there are feats to back it up. Luckily, Nuada has them. First of all, here's Nuada's first scene in the movie - where you see him practicing his spearplay. No enemies here, but the ridiculous level of dexterity that he has with his weapon, his agility and his precision - slicing a water droplet in half - are all very evident in here.


Now, let's talk about how Nuada copes when facing multiple enemies. Okoye has a nice showing against Klaw's thugs, however Nuada has an even better one. As you can see, Nuada goes solo against a whole squad of King Balor's royal guards. Well, Wink (the ogre) kills 2 of them but he stays out of the main part of the fight. Anyway, Nuada kills about a dozen of them - at least 8 had him surrounded and attacked him pretty much at the same time, and he got tagged only once with a weak punch to the nose. Do note how he started the fight unarmed and took one of the guards' swords after breaking his arm with a move that even Rey Mysterio would be jealous of. Okoye's feat is good; Nuada's feat is better. And I'll say that those warriors were probably far more dangerous that Klaw's thugs: first of all, they were armed whereas Klaw's guys weren't. Second, they were royal guards - it only stands to reason that they'd be highly trained, top-quality warriors of skill worthy to protect a king. You said Klaw's guys gave Panther trouble, but I think that trying to kick him 3 or 4 times, when he's crouching and they aren't, and getting all their kicks blocked - doesn't really count as putting him on the defensive. I don't see it as a good enough indication that they were anything more than somewhat-above-average crooks. All in all, I see Nuada's feat as overall superior.


Nuada's skill has a couple more showings to discuss, but not many and I'd rather save them for my next post to give it a bit more juice. I think that'd be enough for now.




Gear:





Nuada's only gear here is his spear. You've already seen that it's retractable and can be fought as a short weapon or as a long one. However, it's a magical spear, capable of hurting Hellboy:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Also here:


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And Hellboy, of course, has enhanced durability to practically all types of damage - piercing damage included. For example, a ton of Tooth Fairies had no effect on him:


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The Tooth Fairies could strip off a man's skin and flesh in seconds:


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There was also Kroenen, who only gave Hellboy a small nick on the nose with his tonfa blades:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

For comparison, Kroenen's blades can cut through stone like butter:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Anyway, Hellboy's pretty damn resistant to damage. Nuada's spear still cut him just fine with ease. It's possible that it would also cut through Okoye's armor.




A few counters:





1. The Outriders:


You made a point about scaling Okoye off the other Dora Milaje soldiers who were able to fight Outriders. Now, I'd like to state something that you may disagree with: Outriders are extremely overrated. They caused so many problems to the Avengers and Wakanda's army because of their relative physical prowess which is above that of a human, their sheer numbers and their total disregard for both pain and for their own well-being. They were basically mindless zombies on steroids. One Outrider alone is not really a threat to any warrior with even sightly above-average level of skill, especially when that warrior has reach advantage (which the Dora had thanks to their spears). The Outriders had no skill whatsoever and were basically just huge berserkers. A Dora Milaje soldier taking Outriders one-on-one, even 2 of them in quick succession, isn't really super impressive. It's not comparable to Steve and T'challa who were fighting the Outriders many at a time like the total badasses that they obviously are. And the Outriders only gave Hulkbuster trouble because Banner could barely even walk in this thing without tripping all over himself, let alone fight effectively. He wasn't even flying and was barely using his weapons (and when he did he mostly missed). He just tried to out-brawl them and eventually went down to the Outriders' sheer numbers and their total lack of fear and inability to feel pain. Put Tony in the suit instead of Banner and he would have probably been more effective in that battle than Thor was.


2. Reach:


You said Okoye has reach advantage, which is untrue. Nuada's spear is just as long as Okoye's if not more so, and he is also taller than her. The actress who plays Okoye, Danai Gurira, is 1.70 m tall. Luke Goss, the actor who plays Nuada, is 1.85 m tall. That makes Nuada half a foot taller than Okoye. So the reach advantage is in fact Nuada's, definitely not Okoye's.


3. Armor:


Probably Okoye's biggest advantage here, but it can be countered in several ways. First of all, Nuada's magic spear might just be able to pierce it since it pierced Hellboy. Neither of us can prove whether or not it will pierce the armor, so I'll leave it alone for now. Other than that, there's the fact that Nuada can use the blund end of his spear to toss Okoye around. He can even BFR her out of the arena and into the ocean, letting her drown. Or he can just throw her off her feet, whichever works for him. Then there's the fact that some of Okoye's body is still vulnerable - her hands are unprotected, and most importantly her head and neck are unprotected as well. Nuada's precision is pretty incredible as you have seen, he is able to slice a water droplet in mid-air clean in half as it's falling:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

So putting a precision shot in Okoye's neck or head isn't that much of a challenge for him.


4. Glaive and Ayo:


You said it yourself, Ayo held Glaive off for just a few seconds. She didn't really give him a fight or a challenge of any kind, him not one-shotting her doesn't make it all that impressive. All in all, the Dora Milaje are good warriors - but not true elites, I think the Jabari are a lot more impressive (speaking of which, when Nakia called Okoye the greatest warrior in Wakanda, it was before she witnessed the might of the Jabari, and especially M'Baku who I found to be more impressive than Okoye). Okoye is definitely better than any individual Dora as is appropriate for their leader, which is nice all in itself, but that doesn't really mean a whole lot.




Summary:


Nuada is stronger and more agile than Okoye, and at least as fast. He has the strength to send Okoye flying with a single hit from the blunt end of his weapon, and his agility combined with his reach advantage will make him very hard to tag. His showing against multiple opponents is better than Okoye's as well, and you'll see some more of his skill in my next post. Okoye's biggest advantage is the armor, but Nuada's got several ways of dealing with it which I detailed above.


Anyway, that will be it for my opener. Your move again my friend ;)



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#21
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 13 days, 6 hours ago
- Show Bio


@riddlerfan77:



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#22
Posted by

Kevd4wg
(8354 posts)
- 13 days, 6 hours ago
- Show Bio


T4V












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#23
Posted by

JSDoctor
(1162 posts)
- 13 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


T4V please












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#24
Posted by

Riddlerfan77
(3908 posts)
- 13 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@the_red_viper: Nice opener.












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#25
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 13 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@riddlerfan77: Thank you.



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CaV: Okoye (ANTHP2000) VS Nuada (The_Red_Viper)















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#1
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
- Show Bio


Representing Okoye, General of the Dora Milaje:


No Caption Provided

@anthp2000


Representing Nuada, Crown Prince of Bethmoora:


No Caption Provided

-Yours Truly


Rules:


  • In character.

  • No prep or prior knowledge.

  • Standard weapons and gear.

  • Standard elimination rules (death, KO, incapacitation).

  • Battle takes place here (start 10 meters apart facing each other.):




No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided



Challenge a Viner Rules:


  • For your vote to be counted it must not be based off the character, only the debater. Reasoning is appreciated=)

  • Regular posting, or making comments is perfectly fine. However, you are not permitted to interfere in the debate, post scans, nor start any separate debates with another user.

  • If you must correct either of us on a point or ask us a question regarding the debate, it would be appreciated if you would resort to asking us in a P.M.

  • As always, may the best debater win.



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#2
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
- Show Bio



@anthp2000 It's up. Everything seems good to you?



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#3
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
- Show Bio


@the_red_viper: Looks great, expect a post soon enough.












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#4
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
- Show Bio


@anthp2000: Awesome.



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#5
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 29 days, 17 hours ago
- Show Bio


I believe I'll be opening today/ almost fully downloaded Black Panther. Too bad I don't have the HD version of Avengers: Infinity War yet tho.












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#6
Posted by

geekryan
(2205 posts)
- 29 days, 16 hours ago
- Show Bio


T4V!












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#7
Posted by

KingCrimson
(4176 posts)
- 29 days, 15 hours ago
- Show Bio


This should be awesome. Good luck to you both!












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#8
Edited by
GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 7 hours ago
- Show Bio


OH BOY


Tag after everytime @anthp2000 post and for voting












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#9
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 6 hours ago
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@gearsecond659: So... you ain't gonna read my posts?



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#10
Posted by

GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 6 hours ago
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@the_red_viper: Oh I will. I am just more interested in what Okoye brings to the table and how she will be represented












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#11
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
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@gearsecond659: It's alright, I was kidding.



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#12
Posted by

GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
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@the_red_viper: lol. It's hard to tell someones intent just through reading text LMAO












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#13
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
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@gearsecond659: True, true.



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#14
Edited by
ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 25 days, 22 hours ago
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General Okoye


"Wakanda Forever!"


Okoye is the General of the Dora Milaje, the primary armed forces in Wakanda. Loyal to the King, Okoye and her army are the protectors of T'Challa, whom she first interacted with 10 years back, on a mission to apprehend two criminals who had kidnapped 2 soldiers of the Nation. When Killmonger became the King in 2018, Okoye was hesitant to assist in overthrowing him. Only upon seeing T'Challa was stil alive and (technically) hadn't lost the Ritual Combat challenge did she attempt to take down N'Jadaka and the Border Tribe. Wakanda opened up to the world, and it wasn't long until Thanos' invasion on Earth to retrieve the remaining Infinity Stones and wipe out half the Universe. During the Battle of Wakanda, Okoye faught alongside her fellow Wakandans and the Avengers, against hordes of Outriders, Proxima Midnight and Thanos himself.



Equipment


  • Dora Milaje Armor

  • Retractable Vibranium Spear

Melee Skill & Speed





I won't make a separate category for stats, since both combatants here utilise close range piercing weapons, though if something comes up regarding physical abilities such as strength or durability I will make sure to adress it. The important part here however, is that Okoye is a master melee fighter, and an extremely skilled fighter.



"In my mind, I saw Wakandans as a noble people, an ancient people, but in the comics, they’ve always been people who can fight really, really good. They’re incredibly dangerous. In all of them, that’s one thing that’s consistent. You don’t want to fight a Wakandan, whether it’s T’Challa, whether it’s any of them.


The casino scene, for me, was about Wakanda’s trying to hide. They’re trying to blend in. They’re trying their best not to make a scene, and eventually, they just can’t hold it in anymore. So I wanted each one of those three characters, they way that they fought to be different, and to be equally impressive."


"And then we wanted Okoye, who’s the cream of the crop of the Dora [Milaje, Black Panther’s personal bodyguards], to just be doing incredible stuff. Almost shocking, how skilled she is with this spear and how she’s taking on all these people."


Source: Director Ryan Coogler Talks ‘Black Panther’s Unbroken Casino Fight Shot, Obama’s Influence, and More [Interview]

Credit to the @thevivas for providing the accolades in his Respect Thread. I think it's worth noting that the director chooses to take note of Okoye's skill in particular, even with warriors as skilled as T'Challa part-taking in the sequence.


The most important aspect of the accolade however, is that Okoye is the "cream of the crop" of the Dora Milaje, which will be important in scaling her from the rest of the Dora Milaje below. Furthermore, Nakia entitled her "the greatest warrior Wakanda has", though it is worth noting that T'Challa was thought dead at the moment Regardless, this is important confirming her abilities among lower ranking officials of the Nation.


Accolades are great, but you need to be able to prove yourself through direct showings of combat. While Okoye hasn't had an amazing amount of screentime, her few sequences are evidence of her incredible skill.


No Caption Provided

During a mission to apprehend Ulysses Klaw, one of the most dangerous and accomplished criminals in the world, who was said to had stolen a Vibranium artifact from the Museum of Great Britain, King T'Challa handpicked the assistance of Nakia, a master spy, and Okoye to intercept a deal and take him in.


Once their cover was blown, they had to fight their way out of a horde of Klaw's mercenaries. Above we see Okoye using her retractable spear, throwing an opponent off-balance, disarming another the next one, piercing through his foot while simultaneously bashing him with the upper part, throwing her wig at the other one and throwing him out of the balcony.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Afterwards, we see Okoye fighting the combined efforts of 4 mercenaries at once, keeping all of them from closing in spinning her spear around every angle, countering one's attempt, disarming the next one and taking him down, stabbing the next, landing a headshot on the other and proceeding to hit and attempt to electrocute the other before kicking him out of the balcony.


It's worth noting that these mercenaries were rather top notch, capable of forcing T'Challa on the defensive for a few moments there, before taken down - again, I'd like to note that she wasn't T'Challa himself is a great warriors, with enhansed strength, speed and reflexes, training for his entire life, to the "highest levels" to fight. Okoye treating them like training bags in larger groups than the two that T'Challa faught, at 360 degrees and a relatively enclosed space, is very impressive.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

During Thanos' Invasion on Earth, a large Battle broke out in Wakanda, where one of the Infinity Stones was hidden. Proxima Midnight led Thanos' army herself in that battle, and Okoye faught against the alien hordes alongside T'Challa and the Avengers, right in the front line.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Focus on the background of this ability, right behind the hunk, you'll notice how the average Dora Milaje could fare against the Outriders. You'll see 1 of them on the far left taking one down in melee and moving on to the next one, while the one up close is fending off one, knocking another one down and dropping it with a headshot, hitting the charging one right in the neck and going back to the first one.


Keep in mind that the Outriders were capable of knocking down and almost overwhelming Tony Stark's Mark XLIV armor, a.k.a. the Hulkbuster armor, the same suit that "already kicked the crap outta the Hulk", by Banner's own word upon entering the battlefield. In short, the Outriders' physiology made it incredibly difficult for every superhuman on the field to overcome, they survived the outter Wakandan shields, which was considered mostly impossible, shrugged off the War Machine's most high calliver firepower, and their sheer savagery, jumping onto opponents using their 6 legs and attempting to tear their flesh off with their teeth, is what made them an incredible force to be reckoned with.


Practically, the average members of the Dora Milaje hardly qualify as 'cannon fodder'. Through sheer skill and the reach their weaponry allowed them, Okoye and the Dora Milaje held their own in the battle, pinpointing vital parts of the Outriders' bodies, parrying their bullrushes and taking out entire groups of them in little time. Okoye however, appears to be on an entirely different level than her soldier.


When Killmonger went up against 3 Dora Milaje members all at once, he seemingly remained untouched against every single one of them. That is, despite the fact the the Dora Milaje are, by word of God, trained to fight as one. You'll notice that for the most part, Okoye remains in the background, presumably waiting for an opening to strike a clean killershot.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Once Erik takes ahold of a soldier and executes her in front of her however, Okoye immediately joins the fight officially, landing a direct hit on Killmonger's shoulder, leading to another hit from a soldier next to her, and even that's not anywhere as direct as Okoye's.


Also, they're moving too fast to properly see, but those were direct hits, as we see the Panther suit lighting and absorbing the kinetic energy upon impact with the spears. Notice how Killmonger attempts to parry Okoye's hit but can't, all around demonstrating her superiority to the combined efforts of at least 2, I'd ague 3 Dora Milaje soldiers. The point at which she entered the fight, the tides turned quickly;


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

less than a minute afterwards, Okoye manages to parry a blow from Killmonger the right moment to give an opening to the other soldiers, ordering them to get Erik in a lock, use the shock function of their spears to stun him, drop him and attempt to remove the necklace, and therefore his suit, to take him down.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

While Okoye and the rest of the Dora were on the fields fighting in Wakanda, Ayo, the second highest ranking member of the army, remained in Shuri's lab to defend her and the Mind Stone. Corvus Glaive, one of Thanos' 4 most Elite warriors, attacked them however, and Ayo managed to hold him off for a few seconds, parrrying his hits and making attempts back at him.


This is impressive as Glaive is baltantly superhuman, strong enough to manhandle Captain America, a Super Soldier for whom I can provide strength showings later, and fast enough to deflect missiles and beams from one of the Infinity Stones.


Keep in mind that Glaive took down 2 Border Tribe members without any effort, dropping them with a swing of his blade, in the same sequence. The Border Tribe warriors were capable of fighting Outriders and matching the Dora Milaje themselves back in Killmonger's reign, once again demonstrating the difference between the named generals of the Milaje and the average soldiers, granted I wouldn't say the Border Tribe are precisely on par with the Dora - close enough to not make a difference.


Overall, Okoye has proven herself an exceptional martial artist and melee weapon specialist through her ability to fight large groups of skilled people, superhumans and the ability to keep up with higher tier combatants, which I can elaborate on later.




Equipment and Weapons





Being the main armed force in Wakanda is nothing to scoff at, Okoye's battle equipment is built by vibranium, the strongest metal ever shown in the MCU, making for quality armor and weapons.


Okoye's body armor is Vibranium Weave, identical to T'Challa's Black Panther suit. Basically, it's desgined to allow the user to be flexible, but is still built by Virbanium metal, capable of no-selling gunfire. The Dora Milaje armor covers Okoye's entire torso, meaning Nuada would have to target on secondary spots of the body to take her down.


Okoye's weapon of choice is the Vibranium spear given to the Dora Milaje soldiers. This is one of the very best weapons you'll find in street level fights;


  • the metal from which is built is incredibly tough, moreso than most metals

  • it offers an enormous reach advantage to the user, notice just how long it is, making Okoye's range in close combat twice as long

  • the edge of it can pierce through the most powerful of objects, armors and bodies, we've seen it cutting clean through dense vibranium

  • they allow for a high coltage shock function on both the sides and the edge, capable of conducting electricity through the sword and stunning Nuada, slowing or even putting him down

No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

While chasing down Klaw and his mercenaries in the streets of Busan, in a classic car chase sequence, Okoye threw her spear directly through the car's windows, landing in front of it, piercing the street and downright stonewalling and damaging a high speeding car. Such output would not only allow for incredible defence and parrying contests, but also the capacity to drop Nuada with a few indirect hits, easily piercing through his skin with an ideal clean hit.




Opening Thoughts


I won't talk much about the fight itself since my knowledge on Pricne Nuada is rather limited, however I will sum up Okoye's threat level;


  • Okoye is a master combatant, outfighting large groups of elite fodder from every angle, outperforming her fellow Dora Milaje soldiers, who themselves managed to fight off the superhumans on Thanos' invasion incredibly efficiently and keeping pace with Avenger level fighter (again, something I'll elaborate on later)

  • Okoye has an extreme weaponry advantage, tough as hell and even more dangerous allowing for superior reach and capacity to take out Nuada in a single hit

@the_red_viperYou're up!












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#15
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 25 days, 22 hours ago
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@the_red_viper sorry for the delay, my computer was being a little stupid

@gearsecond659 post is up.












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#16
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 25 days, 17 hours ago
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@anthp2000: Awesome. I got some stuff to take care of first but I'll get to this as soon as I can.



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#17
Posted by

Riddlerfan77
(3908 posts)
- 25 days, 16 hours ago
- Show Bio


T4V and after every post.












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#18
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 16 days, 5 hours ago
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@anthp2000: Hey, do know that I haven't forgotten about this. I was already busy with writing my post for my CaV with @wyldsong when you posted your opener, and it took longer than I expected. I only got it over with tonight. I'll start writing my opener as soon as I can, I make no promises but I think you can expect it by the end of the week.



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#19
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 15 days, 3 hours ago
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@the_red_viper:


No worries, I probably won't be posting for some time either, my computer is having some real difficulty - and of course that had to happen in the middle of like 5 ongoing CaVs.












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#20
Edited by
the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 13 days, 6 hours ago
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@anthp2000: Alright, here we go. Sorry for the long wait. Anyway...


Prince Nuada's theme song for this fight:


Loading Video...

Introducing Prince Nuada Silverlance:


No Caption Provided

"I am Prince Nuada Silverlance, Son of King Balor. And I am here, sir, to reclaim what is rightfully mine."


Nuada, Crown Prince of Bethmoora, is the son of King Balor and twin brother of Princess Nuala.


The legends say, that at the dawn of time, man, beast and all magical beings lived together in peace. But, greed and lust for power corrupted mankind, and they waged war against all the other species, seeking to rule the Earth. One day, the head of the Goblin blacksmiths, approached King Balor and offered to build him a golden army of 70 times 70 automated soldiers who know no pain or remorse and cannot be defeated. Prince Nuada urged his father to take the offer, and so the army was built, and when mankind attacked once more - they were faced with an army that they could not defeat, and died by the thousands. King Balor then decided that he wants no more bloodshed, and struck an eternal truce with mankind. But, Prince Nuada did not trust the promises of mankind, and went into exile - vowing to return when his people needed him most.


These legends happen to be true, and Prince Nuada did return - seeking the three pieces of the crown that gives its wearer control over the Golden Army, in order to bring down mankind once and for all.


Nuada has only appeared in the movie "Hellboy II: The Golden Army", and as such has a very limited number of feats, so my posts here won't be very long. That being said, what he does have is very impressive.


Stats:





Nuada's biggest advantage here is where stats are concerned. First of all, strength. I won't dwell too much on that because it's pretty straightforward. Nuada has matched strength with Hellboy:


No Caption Provided

Who matched strength with a speeding car:


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I can show you many of Hellboy's strength feats if you want. Basically, he is a multi-tonner, a bit above MCU Super-Soldier tier. Okoye's not what I'd call weak by any means, but she is not as strong as Hellboy, and in turn Nuada.


Nuada can put his strength to good use by ragdolling Okoye with strikes from the blunt end of his spear, like so:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Other than that, there's speed and agility. It will be best demonstrated when seeing his full fight-scenes, so I'll leave it to be discussed alongside skill.




Skill:





I won't lie, Okoye is very skilled. However, Nuada is more skilled. He just has better feats against better, and more numerous opponents.


Before I start showing you feats, I'll urge you to pay close attention not only to Nuada's martial skill, but also his speed and agility. They're hard to demonstrate without viewing full fight-scenes which is why I preferred discussing them here.


First of all, before moving on to the actual feats, I'd like to point out that Nuada is far more experienced than Okoye. He's lived in what the legends call "the dawn of time", an age before recorded history. That means thousands and thousands of years at least, in which Nuada trained, fought and gained experience as a warrior. As opposed to Okoye, who should be... in her early thirties? Less even?


However that's mostly just a side-note; experience is only worth anything when there are feats to back it up. Luckily, Nuada has them. First of all, here's Nuada's first scene in the movie - where you see him practicing his spearplay. No enemies here, but the ridiculous level of dexterity that he has with his weapon, his agility and his precision - slicing a water droplet in half - are all very evident in here.


Now, let's talk about how Nuada copes when facing multiple enemies. Okoye has a nice showing against Klaw's thugs, however Nuada has an even better one. As you can see, Nuada goes solo against a whole squad of King Balor's royal guards. Well, Wink (the ogre) kills 2 of them but he stays out of the main part of the fight. Anyway, Nuada kills about a dozen of them - at least 8 had him surrounded and attacked him pretty much at the same time, and he got tagged only once with a weak punch to the nose. Do note how he started the fight unarmed and took one of the guards' swords after breaking his arm with a move that even Rey Mysterio would be jealous of. Okoye's feat is good; Nuada's feat is better. And I'll say that those warriors were probably far more dangerous that Klaw's thugs: first of all, they were armed whereas Klaw's guys weren't. Second, they were royal guards - it only stands to reason that they'd be highly trained, top-quality warriors of skill worthy to protect a king. You said Klaw's guys gave Panther trouble, but I think that trying to kick him 3 or 4 times, when he's crouching and they aren't, and getting all their kicks blocked - doesn't really count as putting him on the defensive. I don't see it as a good enough indication that they were anything more than somewhat-above-average crooks. All in all, I see Nuada's feat as overall superior.


Nuada's skill has a couple more showings to discuss, but not many and I'd rather save them for my next post to give it a bit more juice. I think that'd be enough for now.




Gear:





Nuada's only gear here is his spear. You've already seen that it's retractable and can be fought as a short weapon or as a long one. However, it's a magical spear, capable of hurting Hellboy:


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Also here:


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And Hellboy, of course, has enhanced durability to practically all types of damage - piercing damage included. For example, a ton of Tooth Fairies had no effect on him:


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The Tooth Fairies could strip off a man's skin and flesh in seconds:


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There was also Kroenen, who only gave Hellboy a small nick on the nose with his tonfa blades:


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For comparison, Kroenen's blades can cut through stone like butter:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Anyway, Hellboy's pretty damn resistant to damage. Nuada's spear still cut him just fine with ease. It's possible that it would also cut through Okoye's armor.




A few counters:





1. The Outriders:


You made a point about scaling Okoye off the other Dora Milaje soldiers who were able to fight Outriders. Now, I'd like to state something that you may disagree with: Outriders are extremely overrated. They caused so many problems to the Avengers and Wakanda's army because of their relative physical prowess which is above that of a human, their sheer numbers and their total disregard for both pain and for their own well-being. They were basically mindless zombies on steroids. One Outrider alone is not really a threat to any warrior with even sightly above-average level of skill, especially when that warrior has reach advantage (which the Dora had thanks to their spears). The Outriders had no skill whatsoever and were basically just huge berserkers. A Dora Milaje soldier taking Outriders one-on-one, even 2 of them in quick succession, isn't really super impressive. It's not comparable to Steve and T'challa who were fighting the Outriders many at a time like the total badasses that they obviously are. And the Outriders only gave Hulkbuster trouble because Banner could barely even walk in this thing without tripping all over himself, let alone fight effectively. He wasn't even flying and was barely using his weapons (and when he did he mostly missed). He just tried to out-brawl them and eventually went down to the Outriders' sheer numbers and their total lack of fear and inability to feel pain. Put Tony in the suit instead of Banner and he would have probably been more effective in that battle than Thor was.


2. Reach:


You said Okoye has reach advantage, which is untrue. Nuada's spear is just as long as Okoye's if not more so, and he is also taller than her. The actress who plays Okoye, Danai Gurira, is 1.70 m tall. Luke Goss, the actor who plays Nuada, is 1.85 m tall. That makes Nuada half a foot taller than Okoye. So the reach advantage is in fact Nuada's, definitely not Okoye's.


3. Armor:


Probably Okoye's biggest advantage here, but it can be countered in several ways. First of all, Nuada's magic spear might just be able to pierce it since it pierced Hellboy. Neither of us can prove whether or not it will pierce the armor, so I'll leave it alone for now. Other than that, there's the fact that Nuada can use the blund end of his spear to toss Okoye around. He can even BFR her out of the arena and into the ocean, letting her drown. Or he can just throw her off her feet, whichever works for him. Then there's the fact that some of Okoye's body is still vulnerable - her hands are unprotected, and most importantly her head and neck are unprotected as well. Nuada's precision is pretty incredible as you have seen, he is able to slice a water droplet in mid-air clean in half as it's falling:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

So putting a precision shot in Okoye's neck or head isn't that much of a challenge for him.


4. Glaive and Ayo:


You said it yourself, Ayo held Glaive off for just a few seconds. She didn't really give him a fight or a challenge of any kind, him not one-shotting her doesn't make it all that impressive. All in all, the Dora Milaje are good warriors - but not true elites, I think the Jabari are a lot more impressive (speaking of which, when Nakia called Okoye the greatest warrior in Wakanda, it was before she witnessed the might of the Jabari, and especially M'Baku who I found to be more impressive than Okoye). Okoye is definitely better than any individual Dora as is appropriate for their leader, which is nice all in itself, but that doesn't really mean a whole lot.




Summary:


Nuada is stronger and more agile than Okoye, and at least as fast. He has the strength to send Okoye flying with a single hit from the blunt end of his weapon, and his agility combined with his reach advantage will make him very hard to tag. His showing against multiple opponents is better than Okoye's as well, and you'll see some more of his skill in my next post. Okoye's biggest advantage is the armor, but Nuada's got several ways of dealing with it which I detailed above.


Anyway, that will be it for my opener. Your move again my friend ;)



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#21
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 13 days, 6 hours ago
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@riddlerfan77:



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#22
Posted by

Kevd4wg
(8354 posts)
- 13 days, 6 hours ago
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T4V












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#23
Posted by

JSDoctor
(1162 posts)
- 13 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


T4V please












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#24
Posted by

Riddlerfan77
(3908 posts)
- 13 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@the_red_viper: Nice opener.












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#25
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 13 days, 5 hours ago
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@riddlerfan77: Thank you.



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#1
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
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Representing Okoye, General of the Dora Milaje:


No Caption Provided

@anthp2000


Representing Nuada, Crown Prince of Bethmoora:


No Caption Provided

-Yours Truly


Rules:


  • In character.

  • No prep or prior knowledge.

  • Standard weapons and gear.

  • Standard elimination rules (death, KO, incapacitation).

  • Battle takes place here (start 10 meters apart facing each other.):




No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided



Challenge a Viner Rules:


  • For your vote to be counted it must not be based off the character, only the debater. Reasoning is appreciated=)

  • Regular posting, or making comments is perfectly fine. However, you are not permitted to interfere in the debate, post scans, nor start any separate debates with another user.

  • If you must correct either of us on a point or ask us a question regarding the debate, it would be appreciated if you would resort to asking us in a P.M.

  • As always, may the best debater win.



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#2
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
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@anthp2000 It's up. Everything seems good to you?



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#3
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
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@the_red_viper: Looks great, expect a post soon enough.












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#4
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
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@anthp2000: Awesome.



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#5
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 29 days, 17 hours ago
- Show Bio


I believe I'll be opening today/ almost fully downloaded Black Panther. Too bad I don't have the HD version of Avengers: Infinity War yet tho.












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#6
Posted by

geekryan
(2205 posts)
- 29 days, 16 hours ago
- Show Bio


T4V!












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#7
Posted by

KingCrimson
(4176 posts)
- 29 days, 15 hours ago
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This should be awesome. Good luck to you both!












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#8
Edited by
GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 7 hours ago
- Show Bio


OH BOY


Tag after everytime @anthp2000 post and for voting












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#9
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 6 hours ago
- Show Bio


@gearsecond659: So... you ain't gonna read my posts?



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#10
Posted by

GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 6 hours ago
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@the_red_viper: Oh I will. I am just more interested in what Okoye brings to the table and how she will be represented












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#11
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@gearsecond659: It's alright, I was kidding.



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#12
Posted by

GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@the_red_viper: lol. It's hard to tell someones intent just through reading text LMAO












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#13
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
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@gearsecond659: True, true.



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#14
Edited by
ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 25 days, 22 hours ago
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General Okoye


"Wakanda Forever!"


Okoye is the General of the Dora Milaje, the primary armed forces in Wakanda. Loyal to the King, Okoye and her army are the protectors of T'Challa, whom she first interacted with 10 years back, on a mission to apprehend two criminals who had kidnapped 2 soldiers of the Nation. When Killmonger became the King in 2018, Okoye was hesitant to assist in overthrowing him. Only upon seeing T'Challa was stil alive and (technically) hadn't lost the Ritual Combat challenge did she attempt to take down N'Jadaka and the Border Tribe. Wakanda opened up to the world, and it wasn't long until Thanos' invasion on Earth to retrieve the remaining Infinity Stones and wipe out half the Universe. During the Battle of Wakanda, Okoye faught alongside her fellow Wakandans and the Avengers, against hordes of Outriders, Proxima Midnight and Thanos himself.



Equipment


  • Dora Milaje Armor

  • Retractable Vibranium Spear

Melee Skill & Speed





I won't make a separate category for stats, since both combatants here utilise close range piercing weapons, though if something comes up regarding physical abilities such as strength or durability I will make sure to adress it. The important part here however, is that Okoye is a master melee fighter, and an extremely skilled fighter.



"In my mind, I saw Wakandans as a noble people, an ancient people, but in the comics, they’ve always been people who can fight really, really good. They’re incredibly dangerous. In all of them, that’s one thing that’s consistent. You don’t want to fight a Wakandan, whether it’s T’Challa, whether it’s any of them.


The casino scene, for me, was about Wakanda’s trying to hide. They’re trying to blend in. They’re trying their best not to make a scene, and eventually, they just can’t hold it in anymore. So I wanted each one of those three characters, they way that they fought to be different, and to be equally impressive."


"And then we wanted Okoye, who’s the cream of the crop of the Dora [Milaje, Black Panther’s personal bodyguards], to just be doing incredible stuff. Almost shocking, how skilled she is with this spear and how she’s taking on all these people."


Source: Director Ryan Coogler Talks ‘Black Panther’s Unbroken Casino Fight Shot, Obama’s Influence, and More [Interview]

Credit to the @thevivas for providing the accolades in his Respect Thread. I think it's worth noting that the director chooses to take note of Okoye's skill in particular, even with warriors as skilled as T'Challa part-taking in the sequence.


The most important aspect of the accolade however, is that Okoye is the "cream of the crop" of the Dora Milaje, which will be important in scaling her from the rest of the Dora Milaje below. Furthermore, Nakia entitled her "the greatest warrior Wakanda has", though it is worth noting that T'Challa was thought dead at the moment Regardless, this is important confirming her abilities among lower ranking officials of the Nation.


Accolades are great, but you need to be able to prove yourself through direct showings of combat. While Okoye hasn't had an amazing amount of screentime, her few sequences are evidence of her incredible skill.


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During a mission to apprehend Ulysses Klaw, one of the most dangerous and accomplished criminals in the world, who was said to had stolen a Vibranium artifact from the Museum of Great Britain, King T'Challa handpicked the assistance of Nakia, a master spy, and Okoye to intercept a deal and take him in.


Once their cover was blown, they had to fight their way out of a horde of Klaw's mercenaries. Above we see Okoye using her retractable spear, throwing an opponent off-balance, disarming another the next one, piercing through his foot while simultaneously bashing him with the upper part, throwing her wig at the other one and throwing him out of the balcony.


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Afterwards, we see Okoye fighting the combined efforts of 4 mercenaries at once, keeping all of them from closing in spinning her spear around every angle, countering one's attempt, disarming the next one and taking him down, stabbing the next, landing a headshot on the other and proceeding to hit and attempt to electrocute the other before kicking him out of the balcony.


It's worth noting that these mercenaries were rather top notch, capable of forcing T'Challa on the defensive for a few moments there, before taken down - again, I'd like to note that she wasn't T'Challa himself is a great warriors, with enhansed strength, speed and reflexes, training for his entire life, to the "highest levels" to fight. Okoye treating them like training bags in larger groups than the two that T'Challa faught, at 360 degrees and a relatively enclosed space, is very impressive.


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During Thanos' Invasion on Earth, a large Battle broke out in Wakanda, where one of the Infinity Stones was hidden. Proxima Midnight led Thanos' army herself in that battle, and Okoye faught against the alien hordes alongside T'Challa and the Avengers, right in the front line.


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Focus on the background of this ability, right behind the hunk, you'll notice how the average Dora Milaje could fare against the Outriders. You'll see 1 of them on the far left taking one down in melee and moving on to the next one, while the one up close is fending off one, knocking another one down and dropping it with a headshot, hitting the charging one right in the neck and going back to the first one.


Keep in mind that the Outriders were capable of knocking down and almost overwhelming Tony Stark's Mark XLIV armor, a.k.a. the Hulkbuster armor, the same suit that "already kicked the crap outta the Hulk", by Banner's own word upon entering the battlefield. In short, the Outriders' physiology made it incredibly difficult for every superhuman on the field to overcome, they survived the outter Wakandan shields, which was considered mostly impossible, shrugged off the War Machine's most high calliver firepower, and their sheer savagery, jumping onto opponents using their 6 legs and attempting to tear their flesh off with their teeth, is what made them an incredible force to be reckoned with.


Practically, the average members of the Dora Milaje hardly qualify as 'cannon fodder'. Through sheer skill and the reach their weaponry allowed them, Okoye and the Dora Milaje held their own in the battle, pinpointing vital parts of the Outriders' bodies, parrying their bullrushes and taking out entire groups of them in little time. Okoye however, appears to be on an entirely different level than her soldier.


When Killmonger went up against 3 Dora Milaje members all at once, he seemingly remained untouched against every single one of them. That is, despite the fact the the Dora Milaje are, by word of God, trained to fight as one. You'll notice that for the most part, Okoye remains in the background, presumably waiting for an opening to strike a clean killershot.


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Once Erik takes ahold of a soldier and executes her in front of her however, Okoye immediately joins the fight officially, landing a direct hit on Killmonger's shoulder, leading to another hit from a soldier next to her, and even that's not anywhere as direct as Okoye's.


Also, they're moving too fast to properly see, but those were direct hits, as we see the Panther suit lighting and absorbing the kinetic energy upon impact with the spears. Notice how Killmonger attempts to parry Okoye's hit but can't, all around demonstrating her superiority to the combined efforts of at least 2, I'd ague 3 Dora Milaje soldiers. The point at which she entered the fight, the tides turned quickly;


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less than a minute afterwards, Okoye manages to parry a blow from Killmonger the right moment to give an opening to the other soldiers, ordering them to get Erik in a lock, use the shock function of their spears to stun him, drop him and attempt to remove the necklace, and therefore his suit, to take him down.


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While Okoye and the rest of the Dora were on the fields fighting in Wakanda, Ayo, the second highest ranking member of the army, remained in Shuri's lab to defend her and the Mind Stone. Corvus Glaive, one of Thanos' 4 most Elite warriors, attacked them however, and Ayo managed to hold him off for a few seconds, parrrying his hits and making attempts back at him.


This is impressive as Glaive is baltantly superhuman, strong enough to manhandle Captain America, a Super Soldier for whom I can provide strength showings later, and fast enough to deflect missiles and beams from one of the Infinity Stones.


Keep in mind that Glaive took down 2 Border Tribe members without any effort, dropping them with a swing of his blade, in the same sequence. The Border Tribe warriors were capable of fighting Outriders and matching the Dora Milaje themselves back in Killmonger's reign, once again demonstrating the difference between the named generals of the Milaje and the average soldiers, granted I wouldn't say the Border Tribe are precisely on par with the Dora - close enough to not make a difference.


Overall, Okoye has proven herself an exceptional martial artist and melee weapon specialist through her ability to fight large groups of skilled people, superhumans and the ability to keep up with higher tier combatants, which I can elaborate on later.




Equipment and Weapons





Being the main armed force in Wakanda is nothing to scoff at, Okoye's battle equipment is built by vibranium, the strongest metal ever shown in the MCU, making for quality armor and weapons.


Okoye's body armor is Vibranium Weave, identical to T'Challa's Black Panther suit. Basically, it's desgined to allow the user to be flexible, but is still built by Virbanium metal, capable of no-selling gunfire. The Dora Milaje armor covers Okoye's entire torso, meaning Nuada would have to target on secondary spots of the body to take her down.


Okoye's weapon of choice is the Vibranium spear given to the Dora Milaje soldiers. This is one of the very best weapons you'll find in street level fights;


  • the metal from which is built is incredibly tough, moreso than most metals

  • it offers an enormous reach advantage to the user, notice just how long it is, making Okoye's range in close combat twice as long

  • the edge of it can pierce through the most powerful of objects, armors and bodies, we've seen it cutting clean through dense vibranium

  • they allow for a high coltage shock function on both the sides and the edge, capable of conducting electricity through the sword and stunning Nuada, slowing or even putting him down

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While chasing down Klaw and his mercenaries in the streets of Busan, in a classic car chase sequence, Okoye threw her spear directly through the car's windows, landing in front of it, piercing the street and downright stonewalling and damaging a high speeding car. Such output would not only allow for incredible defence and parrying contests, but also the capacity to drop Nuada with a few indirect hits, easily piercing through his skin with an ideal clean hit.




Opening Thoughts


I won't talk much about the fight itself since my knowledge on Pricne Nuada is rather limited, however I will sum up Okoye's threat level;


  • Okoye is a master combatant, outfighting large groups of elite fodder from every angle, outperforming her fellow Dora Milaje soldiers, who themselves managed to fight off the superhumans on Thanos' invasion incredibly efficiently and keeping pace with Avenger level fighter (again, something I'll elaborate on later)

  • Okoye has an extreme weaponry advantage, tough as hell and even more dangerous allowing for superior reach and capacity to take out Nuada in a single hit

@the_red_viperYou're up!












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#15
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 25 days, 22 hours ago
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@the_red_viper sorry for the delay, my computer was being a little stupid

@gearsecond659 post is up.












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#16
Posted by

the_red_viper
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- 25 days, 17 hours ago
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@anthp2000: Awesome. I got some stuff to take care of first but I'll get to this as soon as I can.



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#17
Posted by

Riddlerfan77
(3908 posts)
- 25 days, 16 hours ago
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T4V and after every post.












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#18
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 16 days, 5 hours ago
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@anthp2000: Hey, do know that I haven't forgotten about this. I was already busy with writing my post for my CaV with @wyldsong when you posted your opener, and it took longer than I expected. I only got it over with tonight. I'll start writing my opener as soon as I can, I make no promises but I think you can expect it by the end of the week.



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#19
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 15 days, 3 hours ago
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@the_red_viper:


No worries, I probably won't be posting for some time either, my computer is having some real difficulty - and of course that had to happen in the middle of like 5 ongoing CaVs.












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#20
Edited by
the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 13 days, 6 hours ago
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@anthp2000: Alright, here we go. Sorry for the long wait. Anyway...


Prince Nuada's theme song for this fight:


Loading Video...

Introducing Prince Nuada Silverlance:


No Caption Provided

"I am Prince Nuada Silverlance, Son of King Balor. And I am here, sir, to reclaim what is rightfully mine."


Nuada, Crown Prince of Bethmoora, is the son of King Balor and twin brother of Princess Nuala.


The legends say, that at the dawn of time, man, beast and all magical beings lived together in peace. But, greed and lust for power corrupted mankind, and they waged war against all the other species, seeking to rule the Earth. One day, the head of the Goblin blacksmiths, approached King Balor and offered to build him a golden army of 70 times 70 automated soldiers who know no pain or remorse and cannot be defeated. Prince Nuada urged his father to take the offer, and so the army was built, and when mankind attacked once more - they were faced with an army that they could not defeat, and died by the thousands. King Balor then decided that he wants no more bloodshed, and struck an eternal truce with mankind. But, Prince Nuada did not trust the promises of mankind, and went into exile - vowing to return when his people needed him most.


These legends happen to be true, and Prince Nuada did return - seeking the three pieces of the crown that gives its wearer control over the Golden Army, in order to bring down mankind once and for all.


Nuada has only appeared in the movie "Hellboy II: The Golden Army", and as such has a very limited number of feats, so my posts here won't be very long. That being said, what he does have is very impressive.


Stats:





Nuada's biggest advantage here is where stats are concerned. First of all, strength. I won't dwell too much on that because it's pretty straightforward. Nuada has matched strength with Hellboy:


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Who matched strength with a speeding car:


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I can show you many of Hellboy's strength feats if you want. Basically, he is a multi-tonner, a bit above MCU Super-Soldier tier. Okoye's not what I'd call weak by any means, but she is not as strong as Hellboy, and in turn Nuada.


Nuada can put his strength to good use by ragdolling Okoye with strikes from the blunt end of his spear, like so:


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Other than that, there's speed and agility. It will be best demonstrated when seeing his full fight-scenes, so I'll leave it to be discussed alongside skill.




Skill:





I won't lie, Okoye is very skilled. However, Nuada is more skilled. He just has better feats against better, and more numerous opponents.


Before I start showing you feats, I'll urge you to pay close attention not only to Nuada's martial skill, but also his speed and agility. They're hard to demonstrate without viewing full fight-scenes which is why I preferred discussing them here.


First of all, before moving on to the actual feats, I'd like to point out that Nuada is far more experienced than Okoye. He's lived in what the legends call "the dawn of time", an age before recorded history. That means thousands and thousands of years at least, in which Nuada trained, fought and gained experience as a warrior. As opposed to Okoye, who should be... in her early thirties? Less even?


However that's mostly just a side-note; experience is only worth anything when there are feats to back it up. Luckily, Nuada has them. First of all, here's Nuada's first scene in the movie - where you see him practicing his spearplay. No enemies here, but the ridiculous level of dexterity that he has with his weapon, his agility and his precision - slicing a water droplet in half - are all very evident in here.


Now, let's talk about how Nuada copes when facing multiple enemies. Okoye has a nice showing against Klaw's thugs, however Nuada has an even better one. As you can see, Nuada goes solo against a whole squad of King Balor's royal guards. Well, Wink (the ogre) kills 2 of them but he stays out of the main part of the fight. Anyway, Nuada kills about a dozen of them - at least 8 had him surrounded and attacked him pretty much at the same time, and he got tagged only once with a weak punch to the nose. Do note how he started the fight unarmed and took one of the guards' swords after breaking his arm with a move that even Rey Mysterio would be jealous of. Okoye's feat is good; Nuada's feat is better. And I'll say that those warriors were probably far more dangerous that Klaw's thugs: first of all, they were armed whereas Klaw's guys weren't. Second, they were royal guards - it only stands to reason that they'd be highly trained, top-quality warriors of skill worthy to protect a king. You said Klaw's guys gave Panther trouble, but I think that trying to kick him 3 or 4 times, when he's crouching and they aren't, and getting all their kicks blocked - doesn't really count as putting him on the defensive. I don't see it as a good enough indication that they were anything more than somewhat-above-average crooks. All in all, I see Nuada's feat as overall superior.


Nuada's skill has a couple more showings to discuss, but not many and I'd rather save them for my next post to give it a bit more juice. I think that'd be enough for now.




Gear:





Nuada's only gear here is his spear. You've already seen that it's retractable and can be fought as a short weapon or as a long one. However, it's a magical spear, capable of hurting Hellboy:


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Also here:


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And Hellboy, of course, has enhanced durability to practically all types of damage - piercing damage included. For example, a ton of Tooth Fairies had no effect on him:


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The Tooth Fairies could strip off a man's skin and flesh in seconds:


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There was also Kroenen, who only gave Hellboy a small nick on the nose with his tonfa blades:


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For comparison, Kroenen's blades can cut through stone like butter:


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Anyway, Hellboy's pretty damn resistant to damage. Nuada's spear still cut him just fine with ease. It's possible that it would also cut through Okoye's armor.




A few counters:





1. The Outriders:


You made a point about scaling Okoye off the other Dora Milaje soldiers who were able to fight Outriders. Now, I'd like to state something that you may disagree with: Outriders are extremely overrated. They caused so many problems to the Avengers and Wakanda's army because of their relative physical prowess which is above that of a human, their sheer numbers and their total disregard for both pain and for their own well-being. They were basically mindless zombies on steroids. One Outrider alone is not really a threat to any warrior with even sightly above-average level of skill, especially when that warrior has reach advantage (which the Dora had thanks to their spears). The Outriders had no skill whatsoever and were basically just huge berserkers. A Dora Milaje soldier taking Outriders one-on-one, even 2 of them in quick succession, isn't really super impressive. It's not comparable to Steve and T'challa who were fighting the Outriders many at a time like the total badasses that they obviously are. And the Outriders only gave Hulkbuster trouble because Banner could barely even walk in this thing without tripping all over himself, let alone fight effectively. He wasn't even flying and was barely using his weapons (and when he did he mostly missed). He just tried to out-brawl them and eventually went down to the Outriders' sheer numbers and their total lack of fear and inability to feel pain. Put Tony in the suit instead of Banner and he would have probably been more effective in that battle than Thor was.


2. Reach:


You said Okoye has reach advantage, which is untrue. Nuada's spear is just as long as Okoye's if not more so, and he is also taller than her. The actress who plays Okoye, Danai Gurira, is 1.70 m tall. Luke Goss, the actor who plays Nuada, is 1.85 m tall. That makes Nuada half a foot taller than Okoye. So the reach advantage is in fact Nuada's, definitely not Okoye's.


3. Armor:


Probably Okoye's biggest advantage here, but it can be countered in several ways. First of all, Nuada's magic spear might just be able to pierce it since it pierced Hellboy. Neither of us can prove whether or not it will pierce the armor, so I'll leave it alone for now. Other than that, there's the fact that Nuada can use the blund end of his spear to toss Okoye around. He can even BFR her out of the arena and into the ocean, letting her drown. Or he can just throw her off her feet, whichever works for him. Then there's the fact that some of Okoye's body is still vulnerable - her hands are unprotected, and most importantly her head and neck are unprotected as well. Nuada's precision is pretty incredible as you have seen, he is able to slice a water droplet in mid-air clean in half as it's falling:


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So putting a precision shot in Okoye's neck or head isn't that much of a challenge for him.


4. Glaive and Ayo:


You said it yourself, Ayo held Glaive off for just a few seconds. She didn't really give him a fight or a challenge of any kind, him not one-shotting her doesn't make it all that impressive. All in all, the Dora Milaje are good warriors - but not true elites, I think the Jabari are a lot more impressive (speaking of which, when Nakia called Okoye the greatest warrior in Wakanda, it was before she witnessed the might of the Jabari, and especially M'Baku who I found to be more impressive than Okoye). Okoye is definitely better than any individual Dora as is appropriate for their leader, which is nice all in itself, but that doesn't really mean a whole lot.




Summary:


Nuada is stronger and more agile than Okoye, and at least as fast. He has the strength to send Okoye flying with a single hit from the blunt end of his weapon, and his agility combined with his reach advantage will make him very hard to tag. His showing against multiple opponents is better than Okoye's as well, and you'll see some more of his skill in my next post. Okoye's biggest advantage is the armor, but Nuada's got several ways of dealing with it which I detailed above.


Anyway, that will be it for my opener. Your move again my friend ;)



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#21
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 13 days, 6 hours ago
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@riddlerfan77:



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#22
Posted by

Kevd4wg
(8354 posts)
- 13 days, 6 hours ago
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T4V












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#23
Posted by

JSDoctor
(1162 posts)
- 13 days, 5 hours ago
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T4V please












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#24
Posted by

Riddlerfan77
(3908 posts)
- 13 days, 5 hours ago
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@the_red_viper: Nice opener.












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#25
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 13 days, 5 hours ago
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@riddlerfan77: Thank you.



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#1
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
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Representing Okoye, General of the Dora Milaje:


No Caption Provided

@anthp2000


Representing Nuada, Crown Prince of Bethmoora:


No Caption Provided

-Yours Truly


Rules:


  • In character.

  • No prep or prior knowledge.

  • Standard weapons and gear.

  • Standard elimination rules (death, KO, incapacitation).

  • Battle takes place here (start 10 meters apart facing each other.):




No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided



Challenge a Viner Rules:


  • For your vote to be counted it must not be based off the character, only the debater. Reasoning is appreciated=)

  • Regular posting, or making comments is perfectly fine. However, you are not permitted to interfere in the debate, post scans, nor start any separate debates with another user.

  • If you must correct either of us on a point or ask us a question regarding the debate, it would be appreciated if you would resort to asking us in a P.M.

  • As always, may the best debater win.



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#2
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
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@anthp2000 It's up. Everything seems good to you?



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#3
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
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@the_red_viper: Looks great, expect a post soon enough.












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#4
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
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@anthp2000: Awesome.



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#5
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 29 days, 17 hours ago
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I believe I'll be opening today/ almost fully downloaded Black Panther. Too bad I don't have the HD version of Avengers: Infinity War yet tho.












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#6
Posted by

geekryan
(2205 posts)
- 29 days, 16 hours ago
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T4V!












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#7
Posted by

KingCrimson
(4176 posts)
- 29 days, 15 hours ago
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This should be awesome. Good luck to you both!












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#8
Edited by
GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 7 hours ago
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OH BOY


Tag after everytime @anthp2000 post and for voting












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#9
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 6 hours ago
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@gearsecond659: So... you ain't gonna read my posts?



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#10
Posted by

GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 6 hours ago
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@the_red_viper: Oh I will. I am just more interested in what Okoye brings to the table and how she will be represented












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#11
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
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@gearsecond659: It's alright, I was kidding.



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#12
Posted by

GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
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@the_red_viper: lol. It's hard to tell someones intent just through reading text LMAO












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#13
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
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@gearsecond659: True, true.



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#14
Edited by
ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 25 days, 22 hours ago
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General Okoye


"Wakanda Forever!"


Okoye is the General of the Dora Milaje, the primary armed forces in Wakanda. Loyal to the King, Okoye and her army are the protectors of T'Challa, whom she first interacted with 10 years back, on a mission to apprehend two criminals who had kidnapped 2 soldiers of the Nation. When Killmonger became the King in 2018, Okoye was hesitant to assist in overthrowing him. Only upon seeing T'Challa was stil alive and (technically) hadn't lost the Ritual Combat challenge did she attempt to take down N'Jadaka and the Border Tribe. Wakanda opened up to the world, and it wasn't long until Thanos' invasion on Earth to retrieve the remaining Infinity Stones and wipe out half the Universe. During the Battle of Wakanda, Okoye faught alongside her fellow Wakandans and the Avengers, against hordes of Outriders, Proxima Midnight and Thanos himself.



Equipment


  • Dora Milaje Armor

  • Retractable Vibranium Spear

Melee Skill & Speed





I won't make a separate category for stats, since both combatants here utilise close range piercing weapons, though if something comes up regarding physical abilities such as strength or durability I will make sure to adress it. The important part here however, is that Okoye is a master melee fighter, and an extremely skilled fighter.



"In my mind, I saw Wakandans as a noble people, an ancient people, but in the comics, they’ve always been people who can fight really, really good. They’re incredibly dangerous. In all of them, that’s one thing that’s consistent. You don’t want to fight a Wakandan, whether it’s T’Challa, whether it’s any of them.


The casino scene, for me, was about Wakanda’s trying to hide. They’re trying to blend in. They’re trying their best not to make a scene, and eventually, they just can’t hold it in anymore. So I wanted each one of those three characters, they way that they fought to be different, and to be equally impressive."


"And then we wanted Okoye, who’s the cream of the crop of the Dora [Milaje, Black Panther’s personal bodyguards], to just be doing incredible stuff. Almost shocking, how skilled she is with this spear and how she’s taking on all these people."


Source: Director Ryan Coogler Talks ‘Black Panther’s Unbroken Casino Fight Shot, Obama’s Influence, and More [Interview]

Credit to the @thevivas for providing the accolades in his Respect Thread. I think it's worth noting that the director chooses to take note of Okoye's skill in particular, even with warriors as skilled as T'Challa part-taking in the sequence.


The most important aspect of the accolade however, is that Okoye is the "cream of the crop" of the Dora Milaje, which will be important in scaling her from the rest of the Dora Milaje below. Furthermore, Nakia entitled her "the greatest warrior Wakanda has", though it is worth noting that T'Challa was thought dead at the moment Regardless, this is important confirming her abilities among lower ranking officials of the Nation.


Accolades are great, but you need to be able to prove yourself through direct showings of combat. While Okoye hasn't had an amazing amount of screentime, her few sequences are evidence of her incredible skill.


No Caption Provided

During a mission to apprehend Ulysses Klaw, one of the most dangerous and accomplished criminals in the world, who was said to had stolen a Vibranium artifact from the Museum of Great Britain, King T'Challa handpicked the assistance of Nakia, a master spy, and Okoye to intercept a deal and take him in.


Once their cover was blown, they had to fight their way out of a horde of Klaw's mercenaries. Above we see Okoye using her retractable spear, throwing an opponent off-balance, disarming another the next one, piercing through his foot while simultaneously bashing him with the upper part, throwing her wig at the other one and throwing him out of the balcony.


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Afterwards, we see Okoye fighting the combined efforts of 4 mercenaries at once, keeping all of them from closing in spinning her spear around every angle, countering one's attempt, disarming the next one and taking him down, stabbing the next, landing a headshot on the other and proceeding to hit and attempt to electrocute the other before kicking him out of the balcony.


It's worth noting that these mercenaries were rather top notch, capable of forcing T'Challa on the defensive for a few moments there, before taken down - again, I'd like to note that she wasn't T'Challa himself is a great warriors, with enhansed strength, speed and reflexes, training for his entire life, to the "highest levels" to fight. Okoye treating them like training bags in larger groups than the two that T'Challa faught, at 360 degrees and a relatively enclosed space, is very impressive.


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During Thanos' Invasion on Earth, a large Battle broke out in Wakanda, where one of the Infinity Stones was hidden. Proxima Midnight led Thanos' army herself in that battle, and Okoye faught against the alien hordes alongside T'Challa and the Avengers, right in the front line.


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Focus on the background of this ability, right behind the hunk, you'll notice how the average Dora Milaje could fare against the Outriders. You'll see 1 of them on the far left taking one down in melee and moving on to the next one, while the one up close is fending off one, knocking another one down and dropping it with a headshot, hitting the charging one right in the neck and going back to the first one.


Keep in mind that the Outriders were capable of knocking down and almost overwhelming Tony Stark's Mark XLIV armor, a.k.a. the Hulkbuster armor, the same suit that "already kicked the crap outta the Hulk", by Banner's own word upon entering the battlefield. In short, the Outriders' physiology made it incredibly difficult for every superhuman on the field to overcome, they survived the outter Wakandan shields, which was considered mostly impossible, shrugged off the War Machine's most high calliver firepower, and their sheer savagery, jumping onto opponents using their 6 legs and attempting to tear their flesh off with their teeth, is what made them an incredible force to be reckoned with.


Practically, the average members of the Dora Milaje hardly qualify as 'cannon fodder'. Through sheer skill and the reach their weaponry allowed them, Okoye and the Dora Milaje held their own in the battle, pinpointing vital parts of the Outriders' bodies, parrying their bullrushes and taking out entire groups of them in little time. Okoye however, appears to be on an entirely different level than her soldier.


When Killmonger went up against 3 Dora Milaje members all at once, he seemingly remained untouched against every single one of them. That is, despite the fact the the Dora Milaje are, by word of God, trained to fight as one. You'll notice that for the most part, Okoye remains in the background, presumably waiting for an opening to strike a clean killershot.


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Once Erik takes ahold of a soldier and executes her in front of her however, Okoye immediately joins the fight officially, landing a direct hit on Killmonger's shoulder, leading to another hit from a soldier next to her, and even that's not anywhere as direct as Okoye's.


Also, they're moving too fast to properly see, but those were direct hits, as we see the Panther suit lighting and absorbing the kinetic energy upon impact with the spears. Notice how Killmonger attempts to parry Okoye's hit but can't, all around demonstrating her superiority to the combined efforts of at least 2, I'd ague 3 Dora Milaje soldiers. The point at which she entered the fight, the tides turned quickly;


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less than a minute afterwards, Okoye manages to parry a blow from Killmonger the right moment to give an opening to the other soldiers, ordering them to get Erik in a lock, use the shock function of their spears to stun him, drop him and attempt to remove the necklace, and therefore his suit, to take him down.


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While Okoye and the rest of the Dora were on the fields fighting in Wakanda, Ayo, the second highest ranking member of the army, remained in Shuri's lab to defend her and the Mind Stone. Corvus Glaive, one of Thanos' 4 most Elite warriors, attacked them however, and Ayo managed to hold him off for a few seconds, parrrying his hits and making attempts back at him.


This is impressive as Glaive is baltantly superhuman, strong enough to manhandle Captain America, a Super Soldier for whom I can provide strength showings later, and fast enough to deflect missiles and beams from one of the Infinity Stones.


Keep in mind that Glaive took down 2 Border Tribe members without any effort, dropping them with a swing of his blade, in the same sequence. The Border Tribe warriors were capable of fighting Outriders and matching the Dora Milaje themselves back in Killmonger's reign, once again demonstrating the difference between the named generals of the Milaje and the average soldiers, granted I wouldn't say the Border Tribe are precisely on par with the Dora - close enough to not make a difference.


Overall, Okoye has proven herself an exceptional martial artist and melee weapon specialist through her ability to fight large groups of skilled people, superhumans and the ability to keep up with higher tier combatants, which I can elaborate on later.




Equipment and Weapons





Being the main armed force in Wakanda is nothing to scoff at, Okoye's battle equipment is built by vibranium, the strongest metal ever shown in the MCU, making for quality armor and weapons.


Okoye's body armor is Vibranium Weave, identical to T'Challa's Black Panther suit. Basically, it's desgined to allow the user to be flexible, but is still built by Virbanium metal, capable of no-selling gunfire. The Dora Milaje armor covers Okoye's entire torso, meaning Nuada would have to target on secondary spots of the body to take her down.


Okoye's weapon of choice is the Vibranium spear given to the Dora Milaje soldiers. This is one of the very best weapons you'll find in street level fights;


  • the metal from which is built is incredibly tough, moreso than most metals

  • it offers an enormous reach advantage to the user, notice just how long it is, making Okoye's range in close combat twice as long

  • the edge of it can pierce through the most powerful of objects, armors and bodies, we've seen it cutting clean through dense vibranium

  • they allow for a high coltage shock function on both the sides and the edge, capable of conducting electricity through the sword and stunning Nuada, slowing or even putting him down

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While chasing down Klaw and his mercenaries in the streets of Busan, in a classic car chase sequence, Okoye threw her spear directly through the car's windows, landing in front of it, piercing the street and downright stonewalling and damaging a high speeding car. Such output would not only allow for incredible defence and parrying contests, but also the capacity to drop Nuada with a few indirect hits, easily piercing through his skin with an ideal clean hit.




Opening Thoughts


I won't talk much about the fight itself since my knowledge on Pricne Nuada is rather limited, however I will sum up Okoye's threat level;


  • Okoye is a master combatant, outfighting large groups of elite fodder from every angle, outperforming her fellow Dora Milaje soldiers, who themselves managed to fight off the superhumans on Thanos' invasion incredibly efficiently and keeping pace with Avenger level fighter (again, something I'll elaborate on later)

  • Okoye has an extreme weaponry advantage, tough as hell and even more dangerous allowing for superior reach and capacity to take out Nuada in a single hit

@the_red_viperYou're up!












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#15
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 25 days, 22 hours ago
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@the_red_viper sorry for the delay, my computer was being a little stupid

@gearsecond659 post is up.












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#16
Posted by

the_red_viper
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- 25 days, 17 hours ago
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@anthp2000: Awesome. I got some stuff to take care of first but I'll get to this as soon as I can.



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#17
Posted by

Riddlerfan77
(3908 posts)
- 25 days, 16 hours ago
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T4V and after every post.












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#18
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 16 days, 5 hours ago
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@anthp2000: Hey, do know that I haven't forgotten about this. I was already busy with writing my post for my CaV with @wyldsong when you posted your opener, and it took longer than I expected. I only got it over with tonight. I'll start writing my opener as soon as I can, I make no promises but I think you can expect it by the end of the week.



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#19
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 15 days, 3 hours ago
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@the_red_viper:


No worries, I probably won't be posting for some time either, my computer is having some real difficulty - and of course that had to happen in the middle of like 5 ongoing CaVs.












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#20
Edited by
the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 13 days, 6 hours ago
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@anthp2000: Alright, here we go. Sorry for the long wait. Anyway...


Prince Nuada's theme song for this fight:


Loading Video...

Introducing Prince Nuada Silverlance:


No Caption Provided

"I am Prince Nuada Silverlance, Son of King Balor. And I am here, sir, to reclaim what is rightfully mine."


Nuada, Crown Prince of Bethmoora, is the son of King Balor and twin brother of Princess Nuala.


The legends say, that at the dawn of time, man, beast and all magical beings lived together in peace. But, greed and lust for power corrupted mankind, and they waged war against all the other species, seeking to rule the Earth. One day, the head of the Goblin blacksmiths, approached King Balor and offered to build him a golden army of 70 times 70 automated soldiers who know no pain or remorse and cannot be defeated. Prince Nuada urged his father to take the offer, and so the army was built, and when mankind attacked once more - they were faced with an army that they could not defeat, and died by the thousands. King Balor then decided that he wants no more bloodshed, and struck an eternal truce with mankind. But, Prince Nuada did not trust the promises of mankind, and went into exile - vowing to return when his people needed him most.


These legends happen to be true, and Prince Nuada did return - seeking the three pieces of the crown that gives its wearer control over the Golden Army, in order to bring down mankind once and for all.


Nuada has only appeared in the movie "Hellboy II: The Golden Army", and as such has a very limited number of feats, so my posts here won't be very long. That being said, what he does have is very impressive.


Stats:





Nuada's biggest advantage here is where stats are concerned. First of all, strength. I won't dwell too much on that because it's pretty straightforward. Nuada has matched strength with Hellboy:


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Who matched strength with a speeding car:


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I can show you many of Hellboy's strength feats if you want. Basically, he is a multi-tonner, a bit above MCU Super-Soldier tier. Okoye's not what I'd call weak by any means, but she is not as strong as Hellboy, and in turn Nuada.


Nuada can put his strength to good use by ragdolling Okoye with strikes from the blunt end of his spear, like so:


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Other than that, there's speed and agility. It will be best demonstrated when seeing his full fight-scenes, so I'll leave it to be discussed alongside skill.




Skill:





I won't lie, Okoye is very skilled. However, Nuada is more skilled. He just has better feats against better, and more numerous opponents.


Before I start showing you feats, I'll urge you to pay close attention not only to Nuada's martial skill, but also his speed and agility. They're hard to demonstrate without viewing full fight-scenes which is why I preferred discussing them here.


First of all, before moving on to the actual feats, I'd like to point out that Nuada is far more experienced than Okoye. He's lived in what the legends call "the dawn of time", an age before recorded history. That means thousands and thousands of years at least, in which Nuada trained, fought and gained experience as a warrior. As opposed to Okoye, who should be... in her early thirties? Less even?


However that's mostly just a side-note; experience is only worth anything when there are feats to back it up. Luckily, Nuada has them. First of all, here's Nuada's first scene in the movie - where you see him practicing his spearplay. No enemies here, but the ridiculous level of dexterity that he has with his weapon, his agility and his precision - slicing a water droplet in half - are all very evident in here.


Now, let's talk about how Nuada copes when facing multiple enemies. Okoye has a nice showing against Klaw's thugs, however Nuada has an even better one. As you can see, Nuada goes solo against a whole squad of King Balor's royal guards. Well, Wink (the ogre) kills 2 of them but he stays out of the main part of the fight. Anyway, Nuada kills about a dozen of them - at least 8 had him surrounded and attacked him pretty much at the same time, and he got tagged only once with a weak punch to the nose. Do note how he started the fight unarmed and took one of the guards' swords after breaking his arm with a move that even Rey Mysterio would be jealous of. Okoye's feat is good; Nuada's feat is better. And I'll say that those warriors were probably far more dangerous that Klaw's thugs: first of all, they were armed whereas Klaw's guys weren't. Second, they were royal guards - it only stands to reason that they'd be highly trained, top-quality warriors of skill worthy to protect a king. You said Klaw's guys gave Panther trouble, but I think that trying to kick him 3 or 4 times, when he's crouching and they aren't, and getting all their kicks blocked - doesn't really count as putting him on the defensive. I don't see it as a good enough indication that they were anything more than somewhat-above-average crooks. All in all, I see Nuada's feat as overall superior.


Nuada's skill has a couple more showings to discuss, but not many and I'd rather save them for my next post to give it a bit more juice. I think that'd be enough for now.




Gear:





Nuada's only gear here is his spear. You've already seen that it's retractable and can be fought as a short weapon or as a long one. However, it's a magical spear, capable of hurting Hellboy:


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Also here:


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And Hellboy, of course, has enhanced durability to practically all types of damage - piercing damage included. For example, a ton of Tooth Fairies had no effect on him:


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The Tooth Fairies could strip off a man's skin and flesh in seconds:


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There was also Kroenen, who only gave Hellboy a small nick on the nose with his tonfa blades:


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For comparison, Kroenen's blades can cut through stone like butter:


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Anyway, Hellboy's pretty damn resistant to damage. Nuada's spear still cut him just fine with ease. It's possible that it would also cut through Okoye's armor.




A few counters:





1. The Outriders:


You made a point about scaling Okoye off the other Dora Milaje soldiers who were able to fight Outriders. Now, I'd like to state something that you may disagree with: Outriders are extremely overrated. They caused so many problems to the Avengers and Wakanda's army because of their relative physical prowess which is above that of a human, their sheer numbers and their total disregard for both pain and for their own well-being. They were basically mindless zombies on steroids. One Outrider alone is not really a threat to any warrior with even sightly above-average level of skill, especially when that warrior has reach advantage (which the Dora had thanks to their spears). The Outriders had no skill whatsoever and were basically just huge berserkers. A Dora Milaje soldier taking Outriders one-on-one, even 2 of them in quick succession, isn't really super impressive. It's not comparable to Steve and T'challa who were fighting the Outriders many at a time like the total badasses that they obviously are. And the Outriders only gave Hulkbuster trouble because Banner could barely even walk in this thing without tripping all over himself, let alone fight effectively. He wasn't even flying and was barely using his weapons (and when he did he mostly missed). He just tried to out-brawl them and eventually went down to the Outriders' sheer numbers and their total lack of fear and inability to feel pain. Put Tony in the suit instead of Banner and he would have probably been more effective in that battle than Thor was.


2. Reach:


You said Okoye has reach advantage, which is untrue. Nuada's spear is just as long as Okoye's if not more so, and he is also taller than her. The actress who plays Okoye, Danai Gurira, is 1.70 m tall. Luke Goss, the actor who plays Nuada, is 1.85 m tall. That makes Nuada half a foot taller than Okoye. So the reach advantage is in fact Nuada's, definitely not Okoye's.


3. Armor:


Probably Okoye's biggest advantage here, but it can be countered in several ways. First of all, Nuada's magic spear might just be able to pierce it since it pierced Hellboy. Neither of us can prove whether or not it will pierce the armor, so I'll leave it alone for now. Other than that, there's the fact that Nuada can use the blund end of his spear to toss Okoye around. He can even BFR her out of the arena and into the ocean, letting her drown. Or he can just throw her off her feet, whichever works for him. Then there's the fact that some of Okoye's body is still vulnerable - her hands are unprotected, and most importantly her head and neck are unprotected as well. Nuada's precision is pretty incredible as you have seen, he is able to slice a water droplet in mid-air clean in half as it's falling:


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So putting a precision shot in Okoye's neck or head isn't that much of a challenge for him.


4. Glaive and Ayo:


You said it yourself, Ayo held Glaive off for just a few seconds. She didn't really give him a fight or a challenge of any kind, him not one-shotting her doesn't make it all that impressive. All in all, the Dora Milaje are good warriors - but not true elites, I think the Jabari are a lot more impressive (speaking of which, when Nakia called Okoye the greatest warrior in Wakanda, it was before she witnessed the might of the Jabari, and especially M'Baku who I found to be more impressive than Okoye). Okoye is definitely better than any individual Dora as is appropriate for their leader, which is nice all in itself, but that doesn't really mean a whole lot.




Summary:


Nuada is stronger and more agile than Okoye, and at least as fast. He has the strength to send Okoye flying with a single hit from the blunt end of his weapon, and his agility combined with his reach advantage will make him very hard to tag. His showing against multiple opponents is better than Okoye's as well, and you'll see some more of his skill in my next post. Okoye's biggest advantage is the armor, but Nuada's got several ways of dealing with it which I detailed above.


Anyway, that will be it for my opener. Your move again my friend ;)



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#21
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 13 days, 6 hours ago
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@riddlerfan77:



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#22
Posted by

Kevd4wg
(8354 posts)
- 13 days, 6 hours ago
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T4V












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#23
Posted by

JSDoctor
(1162 posts)
- 13 days, 5 hours ago
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T4V please












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#24
Posted by

Riddlerfan77
(3908 posts)
- 13 days, 5 hours ago
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@the_red_viper: Nice opener.












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#25
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 13 days, 5 hours ago
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@riddlerfan77: Thank you.



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Jump to Last Read


























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#1
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
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Representing Okoye, General of the Dora Milaje:


No Caption Provided

@anthp2000


Representing Nuada, Crown Prince of Bethmoora:


No Caption Provided

-Yours Truly


Rules:


  • In character.

  • No prep or prior knowledge.

  • Standard weapons and gear.

  • Standard elimination rules (death, KO, incapacitation).

  • Battle takes place here (start 10 meters apart facing each other.):




No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided



Challenge a Viner Rules:


  • For your vote to be counted it must not be based off the character, only the debater. Reasoning is appreciated=)

  • Regular posting, or making comments is perfectly fine. However, you are not permitted to interfere in the debate, post scans, nor start any separate debates with another user.

  • If you must correct either of us on a point or ask us a question regarding the debate, it would be appreciated if you would resort to asking us in a P.M.

  • As always, may the best debater win.



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#2
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
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@anthp2000 It's up. Everything seems good to you?



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#3
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
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@the_red_viper: Looks great, expect a post soon enough.












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#4
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
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@anthp2000: Awesome.



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#5
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 29 days, 17 hours ago
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I believe I'll be opening today/ almost fully downloaded Black Panther. Too bad I don't have the HD version of Avengers: Infinity War yet tho.












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#6
Posted by

geekryan
(2205 posts)
- 29 days, 16 hours ago
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T4V!












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#7
Posted by

KingCrimson
(4176 posts)
- 29 days, 15 hours ago
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This should be awesome. Good luck to you both!












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#8
Edited by
GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 7 hours ago
- Show Bio


OH BOY


Tag after everytime @anthp2000 post and for voting












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#9
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 6 hours ago
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@gearsecond659: So... you ain't gonna read my posts?



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#10
Posted by

GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 6 hours ago
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@the_red_viper: Oh I will. I am just more interested in what Okoye brings to the table and how she will be represented












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#11
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
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@gearsecond659: It's alright, I was kidding.



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#12
Posted by

GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
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@the_red_viper: lol. It's hard to tell someones intent just through reading text LMAO












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#13
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
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@gearsecond659: True, true.



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#14
Edited by
ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 25 days, 22 hours ago
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General Okoye


"Wakanda Forever!"


Okoye is the General of the Dora Milaje, the primary armed forces in Wakanda. Loyal to the King, Okoye and her army are the protectors of T'Challa, whom she first interacted with 10 years back, on a mission to apprehend two criminals who had kidnapped 2 soldiers of the Nation. When Killmonger became the King in 2018, Okoye was hesitant to assist in overthrowing him. Only upon seeing T'Challa was stil alive and (technically) hadn't lost the Ritual Combat challenge did she attempt to take down N'Jadaka and the Border Tribe. Wakanda opened up to the world, and it wasn't long until Thanos' invasion on Earth to retrieve the remaining Infinity Stones and wipe out half the Universe. During the Battle of Wakanda, Okoye faught alongside her fellow Wakandans and the Avengers, against hordes of Outriders, Proxima Midnight and Thanos himself.



Equipment


  • Dora Milaje Armor

  • Retractable Vibranium Spear

Melee Skill & Speed





I won't make a separate category for stats, since both combatants here utilise close range piercing weapons, though if something comes up regarding physical abilities such as strength or durability I will make sure to adress it. The important part here however, is that Okoye is a master melee fighter, and an extremely skilled fighter.



"In my mind, I saw Wakandans as a noble people, an ancient people, but in the comics, they’ve always been people who can fight really, really good. They’re incredibly dangerous. In all of them, that’s one thing that’s consistent. You don’t want to fight a Wakandan, whether it’s T’Challa, whether it’s any of them.


The casino scene, for me, was about Wakanda’s trying to hide. They’re trying to blend in. They’re trying their best not to make a scene, and eventually, they just can’t hold it in anymore. So I wanted each one of those three characters, they way that they fought to be different, and to be equally impressive."


"And then we wanted Okoye, who’s the cream of the crop of the Dora [Milaje, Black Panther’s personal bodyguards], to just be doing incredible stuff. Almost shocking, how skilled she is with this spear and how she’s taking on all these people."


Source: Director Ryan Coogler Talks ‘Black Panther’s Unbroken Casino Fight Shot, Obama’s Influence, and More [Interview]

Credit to the @thevivas for providing the accolades in his Respect Thread. I think it's worth noting that the director chooses to take note of Okoye's skill in particular, even with warriors as skilled as T'Challa part-taking in the sequence.


The most important aspect of the accolade however, is that Okoye is the "cream of the crop" of the Dora Milaje, which will be important in scaling her from the rest of the Dora Milaje below. Furthermore, Nakia entitled her "the greatest warrior Wakanda has", though it is worth noting that T'Challa was thought dead at the moment Regardless, this is important confirming her abilities among lower ranking officials of the Nation.


Accolades are great, but you need to be able to prove yourself through direct showings of combat. While Okoye hasn't had an amazing amount of screentime, her few sequences are evidence of her incredible skill.


No Caption Provided

During a mission to apprehend Ulysses Klaw, one of the most dangerous and accomplished criminals in the world, who was said to had stolen a Vibranium artifact from the Museum of Great Britain, King T'Challa handpicked the assistance of Nakia, a master spy, and Okoye to intercept a deal and take him in.


Once their cover was blown, they had to fight their way out of a horde of Klaw's mercenaries. Above we see Okoye using her retractable spear, throwing an opponent off-balance, disarming another the next one, piercing through his foot while simultaneously bashing him with the upper part, throwing her wig at the other one and throwing him out of the balcony.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Afterwards, we see Okoye fighting the combined efforts of 4 mercenaries at once, keeping all of them from closing in spinning her spear around every angle, countering one's attempt, disarming the next one and taking him down, stabbing the next, landing a headshot on the other and proceeding to hit and attempt to electrocute the other before kicking him out of the balcony.


It's worth noting that these mercenaries were rather top notch, capable of forcing T'Challa on the defensive for a few moments there, before taken down - again, I'd like to note that she wasn't T'Challa himself is a great warriors, with enhansed strength, speed and reflexes, training for his entire life, to the "highest levels" to fight. Okoye treating them like training bags in larger groups than the two that T'Challa faught, at 360 degrees and a relatively enclosed space, is very impressive.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

During Thanos' Invasion on Earth, a large Battle broke out in Wakanda, where one of the Infinity Stones was hidden. Proxima Midnight led Thanos' army herself in that battle, and Okoye faught against the alien hordes alongside T'Challa and the Avengers, right in the front line.


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Focus on the background of this ability, right behind the hunk, you'll notice how the average Dora Milaje could fare against the Outriders. You'll see 1 of them on the far left taking one down in melee and moving on to the next one, while the one up close is fending off one, knocking another one down and dropping it with a headshot, hitting the charging one right in the neck and going back to the first one.


Keep in mind that the Outriders were capable of knocking down and almost overwhelming Tony Stark's Mark XLIV armor, a.k.a. the Hulkbuster armor, the same suit that "already kicked the crap outta the Hulk", by Banner's own word upon entering the battlefield. In short, the Outriders' physiology made it incredibly difficult for every superhuman on the field to overcome, they survived the outter Wakandan shields, which was considered mostly impossible, shrugged off the War Machine's most high calliver firepower, and their sheer savagery, jumping onto opponents using their 6 legs and attempting to tear their flesh off with their teeth, is what made them an incredible force to be reckoned with.


Practically, the average members of the Dora Milaje hardly qualify as 'cannon fodder'. Through sheer skill and the reach their weaponry allowed them, Okoye and the Dora Milaje held their own in the battle, pinpointing vital parts of the Outriders' bodies, parrying their bullrushes and taking out entire groups of them in little time. Okoye however, appears to be on an entirely different level than her soldier.


When Killmonger went up against 3 Dora Milaje members all at once, he seemingly remained untouched against every single one of them. That is, despite the fact the the Dora Milaje are, by word of God, trained to fight as one. You'll notice that for the most part, Okoye remains in the background, presumably waiting for an opening to strike a clean killershot.


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Once Erik takes ahold of a soldier and executes her in front of her however, Okoye immediately joins the fight officially, landing a direct hit on Killmonger's shoulder, leading to another hit from a soldier next to her, and even that's not anywhere as direct as Okoye's.


Also, they're moving too fast to properly see, but those were direct hits, as we see the Panther suit lighting and absorbing the kinetic energy upon impact with the spears. Notice how Killmonger attempts to parry Okoye's hit but can't, all around demonstrating her superiority to the combined efforts of at least 2, I'd ague 3 Dora Milaje soldiers. The point at which she entered the fight, the tides turned quickly;


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less than a minute afterwards, Okoye manages to parry a blow from Killmonger the right moment to give an opening to the other soldiers, ordering them to get Erik in a lock, use the shock function of their spears to stun him, drop him and attempt to remove the necklace, and therefore his suit, to take him down.


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While Okoye and the rest of the Dora were on the fields fighting in Wakanda, Ayo, the second highest ranking member of the army, remained in Shuri's lab to defend her and the Mind Stone. Corvus Glaive, one of Thanos' 4 most Elite warriors, attacked them however, and Ayo managed to hold him off for a few seconds, parrrying his hits and making attempts back at him.


This is impressive as Glaive is baltantly superhuman, strong enough to manhandle Captain America, a Super Soldier for whom I can provide strength showings later, and fast enough to deflect missiles and beams from one of the Infinity Stones.


Keep in mind that Glaive took down 2 Border Tribe members without any effort, dropping them with a swing of his blade, in the same sequence. The Border Tribe warriors were capable of fighting Outriders and matching the Dora Milaje themselves back in Killmonger's reign, once again demonstrating the difference between the named generals of the Milaje and the average soldiers, granted I wouldn't say the Border Tribe are precisely on par with the Dora - close enough to not make a difference.


Overall, Okoye has proven herself an exceptional martial artist and melee weapon specialist through her ability to fight large groups of skilled people, superhumans and the ability to keep up with higher tier combatants, which I can elaborate on later.




Equipment and Weapons





Being the main armed force in Wakanda is nothing to scoff at, Okoye's battle equipment is built by vibranium, the strongest metal ever shown in the MCU, making for quality armor and weapons.


Okoye's body armor is Vibranium Weave, identical to T'Challa's Black Panther suit. Basically, it's desgined to allow the user to be flexible, but is still built by Virbanium metal, capable of no-selling gunfire. The Dora Milaje armor covers Okoye's entire torso, meaning Nuada would have to target on secondary spots of the body to take her down.


Okoye's weapon of choice is the Vibranium spear given to the Dora Milaje soldiers. This is one of the very best weapons you'll find in street level fights;


  • the metal from which is built is incredibly tough, moreso than most metals

  • it offers an enormous reach advantage to the user, notice just how long it is, making Okoye's range in close combat twice as long

  • the edge of it can pierce through the most powerful of objects, armors and bodies, we've seen it cutting clean through dense vibranium

  • they allow for a high coltage shock function on both the sides and the edge, capable of conducting electricity through the sword and stunning Nuada, slowing or even putting him down

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While chasing down Klaw and his mercenaries in the streets of Busan, in a classic car chase sequence, Okoye threw her spear directly through the car's windows, landing in front of it, piercing the street and downright stonewalling and damaging a high speeding car. Such output would not only allow for incredible defence and parrying contests, but also the capacity to drop Nuada with a few indirect hits, easily piercing through his skin with an ideal clean hit.




Opening Thoughts


I won't talk much about the fight itself since my knowledge on Pricne Nuada is rather limited, however I will sum up Okoye's threat level;


  • Okoye is a master combatant, outfighting large groups of elite fodder from every angle, outperforming her fellow Dora Milaje soldiers, who themselves managed to fight off the superhumans on Thanos' invasion incredibly efficiently and keeping pace with Avenger level fighter (again, something I'll elaborate on later)

  • Okoye has an extreme weaponry advantage, tough as hell and even more dangerous allowing for superior reach and capacity to take out Nuada in a single hit

@the_red_viperYou're up!












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#15
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 25 days, 22 hours ago
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@the_red_viper sorry for the delay, my computer was being a little stupid

@gearsecond659 post is up.












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#16
Posted by

the_red_viper
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- 25 days, 17 hours ago
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@anthp2000: Awesome. I got some stuff to take care of first but I'll get to this as soon as I can.



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#17
Posted by

Riddlerfan77
(3908 posts)
- 25 days, 16 hours ago
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T4V and after every post.












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#18
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 16 days, 5 hours ago
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@anthp2000: Hey, do know that I haven't forgotten about this. I was already busy with writing my post for my CaV with @wyldsong when you posted your opener, and it took longer than I expected. I only got it over with tonight. I'll start writing my opener as soon as I can, I make no promises but I think you can expect it by the end of the week.



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#19
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 15 days, 3 hours ago
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@the_red_viper:


No worries, I probably won't be posting for some time either, my computer is having some real difficulty - and of course that had to happen in the middle of like 5 ongoing CaVs.












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#20
Edited by
the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 13 days, 6 hours ago
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@anthp2000: Alright, here we go. Sorry for the long wait. Anyway...


Prince Nuada's theme song for this fight:


Loading Video...

Introducing Prince Nuada Silverlance:


No Caption Provided

"I am Prince Nuada Silverlance, Son of King Balor. And I am here, sir, to reclaim what is rightfully mine."


Nuada, Crown Prince of Bethmoora, is the son of King Balor and twin brother of Princess Nuala.


The legends say, that at the dawn of time, man, beast and all magical beings lived together in peace. But, greed and lust for power corrupted mankind, and they waged war against all the other species, seeking to rule the Earth. One day, the head of the Goblin blacksmiths, approached King Balor and offered to build him a golden army of 70 times 70 automated soldiers who know no pain or remorse and cannot be defeated. Prince Nuada urged his father to take the offer, and so the army was built, and when mankind attacked once more - they were faced with an army that they could not defeat, and died by the thousands. King Balor then decided that he wants no more bloodshed, and struck an eternal truce with mankind. But, Prince Nuada did not trust the promises of mankind, and went into exile - vowing to return when his people needed him most.


These legends happen to be true, and Prince Nuada did return - seeking the three pieces of the crown that gives its wearer control over the Golden Army, in order to bring down mankind once and for all.


Nuada has only appeared in the movie "Hellboy II: The Golden Army", and as such has a very limited number of feats, so my posts here won't be very long. That being said, what he does have is very impressive.


Stats:





Nuada's biggest advantage here is where stats are concerned. First of all, strength. I won't dwell too much on that because it's pretty straightforward. Nuada has matched strength with Hellboy:


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Who matched strength with a speeding car:


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I can show you many of Hellboy's strength feats if you want. Basically, he is a multi-tonner, a bit above MCU Super-Soldier tier. Okoye's not what I'd call weak by any means, but she is not as strong as Hellboy, and in turn Nuada.


Nuada can put his strength to good use by ragdolling Okoye with strikes from the blunt end of his spear, like so:


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Other than that, there's speed and agility. It will be best demonstrated when seeing his full fight-scenes, so I'll leave it to be discussed alongside skill.




Skill:





I won't lie, Okoye is very skilled. However, Nuada is more skilled. He just has better feats against better, and more numerous opponents.


Before I start showing you feats, I'll urge you to pay close attention not only to Nuada's martial skill, but also his speed and agility. They're hard to demonstrate without viewing full fight-scenes which is why I preferred discussing them here.


First of all, before moving on to the actual feats, I'd like to point out that Nuada is far more experienced than Okoye. He's lived in what the legends call "the dawn of time", an age before recorded history. That means thousands and thousands of years at least, in which Nuada trained, fought and gained experience as a warrior. As opposed to Okoye, who should be... in her early thirties? Less even?


However that's mostly just a side-note; experience is only worth anything when there are feats to back it up. Luckily, Nuada has them. First of all, here's Nuada's first scene in the movie - where you see him practicing his spearplay. No enemies here, but the ridiculous level of dexterity that he has with his weapon, his agility and his precision - slicing a water droplet in half - are all very evident in here.


Now, let's talk about how Nuada copes when facing multiple enemies. Okoye has a nice showing against Klaw's thugs, however Nuada has an even better one. As you can see, Nuada goes solo against a whole squad of King Balor's royal guards. Well, Wink (the ogre) kills 2 of them but he stays out of the main part of the fight. Anyway, Nuada kills about a dozen of them - at least 8 had him surrounded and attacked him pretty much at the same time, and he got tagged only once with a weak punch to the nose. Do note how he started the fight unarmed and took one of the guards' swords after breaking his arm with a move that even Rey Mysterio would be jealous of. Okoye's feat is good; Nuada's feat is better. And I'll say that those warriors were probably far more dangerous that Klaw's thugs: first of all, they were armed whereas Klaw's guys weren't. Second, they were royal guards - it only stands to reason that they'd be highly trained, top-quality warriors of skill worthy to protect a king. You said Klaw's guys gave Panther trouble, but I think that trying to kick him 3 or 4 times, when he's crouching and they aren't, and getting all their kicks blocked - doesn't really count as putting him on the defensive. I don't see it as a good enough indication that they were anything more than somewhat-above-average crooks. All in all, I see Nuada's feat as overall superior.


Nuada's skill has a couple more showings to discuss, but not many and I'd rather save them for my next post to give it a bit more juice. I think that'd be enough for now.




Gear:





Nuada's only gear here is his spear. You've already seen that it's retractable and can be fought as a short weapon or as a long one. However, it's a magical spear, capable of hurting Hellboy:


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Also here:


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And Hellboy, of course, has enhanced durability to practically all types of damage - piercing damage included. For example, a ton of Tooth Fairies had no effect on him:


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The Tooth Fairies could strip off a man's skin and flesh in seconds:


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There was also Kroenen, who only gave Hellboy a small nick on the nose with his tonfa blades:


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For comparison, Kroenen's blades can cut through stone like butter:


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Anyway, Hellboy's pretty damn resistant to damage. Nuada's spear still cut him just fine with ease. It's possible that it would also cut through Okoye's armor.




A few counters:





1. The Outriders:


You made a point about scaling Okoye off the other Dora Milaje soldiers who were able to fight Outriders. Now, I'd like to state something that you may disagree with: Outriders are extremely overrated. They caused so many problems to the Avengers and Wakanda's army because of their relative physical prowess which is above that of a human, their sheer numbers and their total disregard for both pain and for their own well-being. They were basically mindless zombies on steroids. One Outrider alone is not really a threat to any warrior with even sightly above-average level of skill, especially when that warrior has reach advantage (which the Dora had thanks to their spears). The Outriders had no skill whatsoever and were basically just huge berserkers. A Dora Milaje soldier taking Outriders one-on-one, even 2 of them in quick succession, isn't really super impressive. It's not comparable to Steve and T'challa who were fighting the Outriders many at a time like the total badasses that they obviously are. And the Outriders only gave Hulkbuster trouble because Banner could barely even walk in this thing without tripping all over himself, let alone fight effectively. He wasn't even flying and was barely using his weapons (and when he did he mostly missed). He just tried to out-brawl them and eventually went down to the Outriders' sheer numbers and their total lack of fear and inability to feel pain. Put Tony in the suit instead of Banner and he would have probably been more effective in that battle than Thor was.


2. Reach:


You said Okoye has reach advantage, which is untrue. Nuada's spear is just as long as Okoye's if not more so, and he is also taller than her. The actress who plays Okoye, Danai Gurira, is 1.70 m tall. Luke Goss, the actor who plays Nuada, is 1.85 m tall. That makes Nuada half a foot taller than Okoye. So the reach advantage is in fact Nuada's, definitely not Okoye's.


3. Armor:


Probably Okoye's biggest advantage here, but it can be countered in several ways. First of all, Nuada's magic spear might just be able to pierce it since it pierced Hellboy. Neither of us can prove whether or not it will pierce the armor, so I'll leave it alone for now. Other than that, there's the fact that Nuada can use the blund end of his spear to toss Okoye around. He can even BFR her out of the arena and into the ocean, letting her drown. Or he can just throw her off her feet, whichever works for him. Then there's the fact that some of Okoye's body is still vulnerable - her hands are unprotected, and most importantly her head and neck are unprotected as well. Nuada's precision is pretty incredible as you have seen, he is able to slice a water droplet in mid-air clean in half as it's falling:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

So putting a precision shot in Okoye's neck or head isn't that much of a challenge for him.


4. Glaive and Ayo:


You said it yourself, Ayo held Glaive off for just a few seconds. She didn't really give him a fight or a challenge of any kind, him not one-shotting her doesn't make it all that impressive. All in all, the Dora Milaje are good warriors - but not true elites, I think the Jabari are a lot more impressive (speaking of which, when Nakia called Okoye the greatest warrior in Wakanda, it was before she witnessed the might of the Jabari, and especially M'Baku who I found to be more impressive than Okoye). Okoye is definitely better than any individual Dora as is appropriate for their leader, which is nice all in itself, but that doesn't really mean a whole lot.




Summary:


Nuada is stronger and more agile than Okoye, and at least as fast. He has the strength to send Okoye flying with a single hit from the blunt end of his weapon, and his agility combined with his reach advantage will make him very hard to tag. His showing against multiple opponents is better than Okoye's as well, and you'll see some more of his skill in my next post. Okoye's biggest advantage is the armor, but Nuada's got several ways of dealing with it which I detailed above.


Anyway, that will be it for my opener. Your move again my friend ;)



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#21
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 13 days, 6 hours ago
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@riddlerfan77:



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#22
Posted by

Kevd4wg
(8354 posts)
- 13 days, 6 hours ago
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T4V












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#23
Posted by

JSDoctor
(1162 posts)
- 13 days, 5 hours ago
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T4V please












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#24
Posted by

Riddlerfan77
(3908 posts)
- 13 days, 5 hours ago
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@the_red_viper: Nice opener.












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#25
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 13 days, 5 hours ago
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@riddlerfan77: Thank you.



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#1
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
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Representing Okoye, General of the Dora Milaje:


No Caption Provided

@anthp2000


Representing Nuada, Crown Prince of Bethmoora:


No Caption Provided

-Yours Truly


Rules:


  • In character.

  • No prep or prior knowledge.

  • Standard weapons and gear.

  • Standard elimination rules (death, KO, incapacitation).

  • Battle takes place here (start 10 meters apart facing each other.):




No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided



Challenge a Viner Rules:


  • For your vote to be counted it must not be based off the character, only the debater. Reasoning is appreciated=)

  • Regular posting, or making comments is perfectly fine. However, you are not permitted to interfere in the debate, post scans, nor start any separate debates with another user.

  • If you must correct either of us on a point or ask us a question regarding the debate, it would be appreciated if you would resort to asking us in a P.M.

  • As always, may the best debater win.



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#2
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
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@anthp2000 It's up. Everything seems good to you?



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#3
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
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@the_red_viper: Looks great, expect a post soon enough.












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#4
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
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@anthp2000: Awesome.



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#5
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 29 days, 17 hours ago
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I believe I'll be opening today/ almost fully downloaded Black Panther. Too bad I don't have the HD version of Avengers: Infinity War yet tho.












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#6
Posted by

geekryan
(2205 posts)
- 29 days, 16 hours ago
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T4V!












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#7
Posted by

KingCrimson
(4176 posts)
- 29 days, 15 hours ago
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This should be awesome. Good luck to you both!












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#8
Edited by
GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 7 hours ago
- Show Bio


OH BOY


Tag after everytime @anthp2000 post and for voting












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#9
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 6 hours ago
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@gearsecond659: So... you ain't gonna read my posts?



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#10
Posted by

GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 6 hours ago
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@the_red_viper: Oh I will. I am just more interested in what Okoye brings to the table and how she will be represented












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#11
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
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@gearsecond659: It's alright, I was kidding.



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#12
Posted by

GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
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@the_red_viper: lol. It's hard to tell someones intent just through reading text LMAO












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#13
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
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@gearsecond659: True, true.



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#14
Edited by
ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 25 days, 22 hours ago
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General Okoye


"Wakanda Forever!"


Okoye is the General of the Dora Milaje, the primary armed forces in Wakanda. Loyal to the King, Okoye and her army are the protectors of T'Challa, whom she first interacted with 10 years back, on a mission to apprehend two criminals who had kidnapped 2 soldiers of the Nation. When Killmonger became the King in 2018, Okoye was hesitant to assist in overthrowing him. Only upon seeing T'Challa was stil alive and (technically) hadn't lost the Ritual Combat challenge did she attempt to take down N'Jadaka and the Border Tribe. Wakanda opened up to the world, and it wasn't long until Thanos' invasion on Earth to retrieve the remaining Infinity Stones and wipe out half the Universe. During the Battle of Wakanda, Okoye faught alongside her fellow Wakandans and the Avengers, against hordes of Outriders, Proxima Midnight and Thanos himself.



Equipment


  • Dora Milaje Armor

  • Retractable Vibranium Spear

Melee Skill & Speed





I won't make a separate category for stats, since both combatants here utilise close range piercing weapons, though if something comes up regarding physical abilities such as strength or durability I will make sure to adress it. The important part here however, is that Okoye is a master melee fighter, and an extremely skilled fighter.



"In my mind, I saw Wakandans as a noble people, an ancient people, but in the comics, they’ve always been people who can fight really, really good. They’re incredibly dangerous. In all of them, that’s one thing that’s consistent. You don’t want to fight a Wakandan, whether it’s T’Challa, whether it’s any of them.


The casino scene, for me, was about Wakanda’s trying to hide. They’re trying to blend in. They’re trying their best not to make a scene, and eventually, they just can’t hold it in anymore. So I wanted each one of those three characters, they way that they fought to be different, and to be equally impressive."


"And then we wanted Okoye, who’s the cream of the crop of the Dora [Milaje, Black Panther’s personal bodyguards], to just be doing incredible stuff. Almost shocking, how skilled she is with this spear and how she’s taking on all these people."


Source: Director Ryan Coogler Talks ‘Black Panther’s Unbroken Casino Fight Shot, Obama’s Influence, and More [Interview]

Credit to the @thevivas for providing the accolades in his Respect Thread. I think it's worth noting that the director chooses to take note of Okoye's skill in particular, even with warriors as skilled as T'Challa part-taking in the sequence.


The most important aspect of the accolade however, is that Okoye is the "cream of the crop" of the Dora Milaje, which will be important in scaling her from the rest of the Dora Milaje below. Furthermore, Nakia entitled her "the greatest warrior Wakanda has", though it is worth noting that T'Challa was thought dead at the moment Regardless, this is important confirming her abilities among lower ranking officials of the Nation.


Accolades are great, but you need to be able to prove yourself through direct showings of combat. While Okoye hasn't had an amazing amount of screentime, her few sequences are evidence of her incredible skill.


No Caption Provided

During a mission to apprehend Ulysses Klaw, one of the most dangerous and accomplished criminals in the world, who was said to had stolen a Vibranium artifact from the Museum of Great Britain, King T'Challa handpicked the assistance of Nakia, a master spy, and Okoye to intercept a deal and take him in.


Once their cover was blown, they had to fight their way out of a horde of Klaw's mercenaries. Above we see Okoye using her retractable spear, throwing an opponent off-balance, disarming another the next one, piercing through his foot while simultaneously bashing him with the upper part, throwing her wig at the other one and throwing him out of the balcony.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Afterwards, we see Okoye fighting the combined efforts of 4 mercenaries at once, keeping all of them from closing in spinning her spear around every angle, countering one's attempt, disarming the next one and taking him down, stabbing the next, landing a headshot on the other and proceeding to hit and attempt to electrocute the other before kicking him out of the balcony.


It's worth noting that these mercenaries were rather top notch, capable of forcing T'Challa on the defensive for a few moments there, before taken down - again, I'd like to note that she wasn't T'Challa himself is a great warriors, with enhansed strength, speed and reflexes, training for his entire life, to the "highest levels" to fight. Okoye treating them like training bags in larger groups than the two that T'Challa faught, at 360 degrees and a relatively enclosed space, is very impressive.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

During Thanos' Invasion on Earth, a large Battle broke out in Wakanda, where one of the Infinity Stones was hidden. Proxima Midnight led Thanos' army herself in that battle, and Okoye faught against the alien hordes alongside T'Challa and the Avengers, right in the front line.


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Focus on the background of this ability, right behind the hunk, you'll notice how the average Dora Milaje could fare against the Outriders. You'll see 1 of them on the far left taking one down in melee and moving on to the next one, while the one up close is fending off one, knocking another one down and dropping it with a headshot, hitting the charging one right in the neck and going back to the first one.


Keep in mind that the Outriders were capable of knocking down and almost overwhelming Tony Stark's Mark XLIV armor, a.k.a. the Hulkbuster armor, the same suit that "already kicked the crap outta the Hulk", by Banner's own word upon entering the battlefield. In short, the Outriders' physiology made it incredibly difficult for every superhuman on the field to overcome, they survived the outter Wakandan shields, which was considered mostly impossible, shrugged off the War Machine's most high calliver firepower, and their sheer savagery, jumping onto opponents using their 6 legs and attempting to tear their flesh off with their teeth, is what made them an incredible force to be reckoned with.


Practically, the average members of the Dora Milaje hardly qualify as 'cannon fodder'. Through sheer skill and the reach their weaponry allowed them, Okoye and the Dora Milaje held their own in the battle, pinpointing vital parts of the Outriders' bodies, parrying their bullrushes and taking out entire groups of them in little time. Okoye however, appears to be on an entirely different level than her soldier.


When Killmonger went up against 3 Dora Milaje members all at once, he seemingly remained untouched against every single one of them. That is, despite the fact the the Dora Milaje are, by word of God, trained to fight as one. You'll notice that for the most part, Okoye remains in the background, presumably waiting for an opening to strike a clean killershot.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Once Erik takes ahold of a soldier and executes her in front of her however, Okoye immediately joins the fight officially, landing a direct hit on Killmonger's shoulder, leading to another hit from a soldier next to her, and even that's not anywhere as direct as Okoye's.


Also, they're moving too fast to properly see, but those were direct hits, as we see the Panther suit lighting and absorbing the kinetic energy upon impact with the spears. Notice how Killmonger attempts to parry Okoye's hit but can't, all around demonstrating her superiority to the combined efforts of at least 2, I'd ague 3 Dora Milaje soldiers. The point at which she entered the fight, the tides turned quickly;


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less than a minute afterwards, Okoye manages to parry a blow from Killmonger the right moment to give an opening to the other soldiers, ordering them to get Erik in a lock, use the shock function of their spears to stun him, drop him and attempt to remove the necklace, and therefore his suit, to take him down.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

While Okoye and the rest of the Dora were on the fields fighting in Wakanda, Ayo, the second highest ranking member of the army, remained in Shuri's lab to defend her and the Mind Stone. Corvus Glaive, one of Thanos' 4 most Elite warriors, attacked them however, and Ayo managed to hold him off for a few seconds, parrrying his hits and making attempts back at him.


This is impressive as Glaive is baltantly superhuman, strong enough to manhandle Captain America, a Super Soldier for whom I can provide strength showings later, and fast enough to deflect missiles and beams from one of the Infinity Stones.


Keep in mind that Glaive took down 2 Border Tribe members without any effort, dropping them with a swing of his blade, in the same sequence. The Border Tribe warriors were capable of fighting Outriders and matching the Dora Milaje themselves back in Killmonger's reign, once again demonstrating the difference between the named generals of the Milaje and the average soldiers, granted I wouldn't say the Border Tribe are precisely on par with the Dora - close enough to not make a difference.


Overall, Okoye has proven herself an exceptional martial artist and melee weapon specialist through her ability to fight large groups of skilled people, superhumans and the ability to keep up with higher tier combatants, which I can elaborate on later.




Equipment and Weapons





Being the main armed force in Wakanda is nothing to scoff at, Okoye's battle equipment is built by vibranium, the strongest metal ever shown in the MCU, making for quality armor and weapons.


Okoye's body armor is Vibranium Weave, identical to T'Challa's Black Panther suit. Basically, it's desgined to allow the user to be flexible, but is still built by Virbanium metal, capable of no-selling gunfire. The Dora Milaje armor covers Okoye's entire torso, meaning Nuada would have to target on secondary spots of the body to take her down.


Okoye's weapon of choice is the Vibranium spear given to the Dora Milaje soldiers. This is one of the very best weapons you'll find in street level fights;


  • the metal from which is built is incredibly tough, moreso than most metals

  • it offers an enormous reach advantage to the user, notice just how long it is, making Okoye's range in close combat twice as long

  • the edge of it can pierce through the most powerful of objects, armors and bodies, we've seen it cutting clean through dense vibranium

  • they allow for a high coltage shock function on both the sides and the edge, capable of conducting electricity through the sword and stunning Nuada, slowing or even putting him down

No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

While chasing down Klaw and his mercenaries in the streets of Busan, in a classic car chase sequence, Okoye threw her spear directly through the car's windows, landing in front of it, piercing the street and downright stonewalling and damaging a high speeding car. Such output would not only allow for incredible defence and parrying contests, but also the capacity to drop Nuada with a few indirect hits, easily piercing through his skin with an ideal clean hit.




Opening Thoughts


I won't talk much about the fight itself since my knowledge on Pricne Nuada is rather limited, however I will sum up Okoye's threat level;


  • Okoye is a master combatant, outfighting large groups of elite fodder from every angle, outperforming her fellow Dora Milaje soldiers, who themselves managed to fight off the superhumans on Thanos' invasion incredibly efficiently and keeping pace with Avenger level fighter (again, something I'll elaborate on later)

  • Okoye has an extreme weaponry advantage, tough as hell and even more dangerous allowing for superior reach and capacity to take out Nuada in a single hit

@the_red_viperYou're up!












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#15
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 25 days, 22 hours ago
- Show Bio


@the_red_viper sorry for the delay, my computer was being a little stupid

@gearsecond659 post is up.












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#16
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 25 days, 17 hours ago
- Show Bio


@anthp2000: Awesome. I got some stuff to take care of first but I'll get to this as soon as I can.



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#17
Posted by

Riddlerfan77
(3908 posts)
- 25 days, 16 hours ago
- Show Bio


T4V and after every post.












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#18
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 16 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@anthp2000: Hey, do know that I haven't forgotten about this. I was already busy with writing my post for my CaV with @wyldsong when you posted your opener, and it took longer than I expected. I only got it over with tonight. I'll start writing my opener as soon as I can, I make no promises but I think you can expect it by the end of the week.



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#19
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 15 days, 3 hours ago
- Show Bio


@the_red_viper:


No worries, I probably won't be posting for some time either, my computer is having some real difficulty - and of course that had to happen in the middle of like 5 ongoing CaVs.












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#20
Edited by
the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 13 days, 6 hours ago
- Show Bio


@anthp2000: Alright, here we go. Sorry for the long wait. Anyway...


Prince Nuada's theme song for this fight:


Loading Video...

Introducing Prince Nuada Silverlance:


No Caption Provided

"I am Prince Nuada Silverlance, Son of King Balor. And I am here, sir, to reclaim what is rightfully mine."


Nuada, Crown Prince of Bethmoora, is the son of King Balor and twin brother of Princess Nuala.


The legends say, that at the dawn of time, man, beast and all magical beings lived together in peace. But, greed and lust for power corrupted mankind, and they waged war against all the other species, seeking to rule the Earth. One day, the head of the Goblin blacksmiths, approached King Balor and offered to build him a golden army of 70 times 70 automated soldiers who know no pain or remorse and cannot be defeated. Prince Nuada urged his father to take the offer, and so the army was built, and when mankind attacked once more - they were faced with an army that they could not defeat, and died by the thousands. King Balor then decided that he wants no more bloodshed, and struck an eternal truce with mankind. But, Prince Nuada did not trust the promises of mankind, and went into exile - vowing to return when his people needed him most.


These legends happen to be true, and Prince Nuada did return - seeking the three pieces of the crown that gives its wearer control over the Golden Army, in order to bring down mankind once and for all.


Nuada has only appeared in the movie "Hellboy II: The Golden Army", and as such has a very limited number of feats, so my posts here won't be very long. That being said, what he does have is very impressive.


Stats:





Nuada's biggest advantage here is where stats are concerned. First of all, strength. I won't dwell too much on that because it's pretty straightforward. Nuada has matched strength with Hellboy:


No Caption Provided

Who matched strength with a speeding car:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

I can show you many of Hellboy's strength feats if you want. Basically, he is a multi-tonner, a bit above MCU Super-Soldier tier. Okoye's not what I'd call weak by any means, but she is not as strong as Hellboy, and in turn Nuada.


Nuada can put his strength to good use by ragdolling Okoye with strikes from the blunt end of his spear, like so:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Other than that, there's speed and agility. It will be best demonstrated when seeing his full fight-scenes, so I'll leave it to be discussed alongside skill.




Skill:





I won't lie, Okoye is very skilled. However, Nuada is more skilled. He just has better feats against better, and more numerous opponents.


Before I start showing you feats, I'll urge you to pay close attention not only to Nuada's martial skill, but also his speed and agility. They're hard to demonstrate without viewing full fight-scenes which is why I preferred discussing them here.


First of all, before moving on to the actual feats, I'd like to point out that Nuada is far more experienced than Okoye. He's lived in what the legends call "the dawn of time", an age before recorded history. That means thousands and thousands of years at least, in which Nuada trained, fought and gained experience as a warrior. As opposed to Okoye, who should be... in her early thirties? Less even?


However that's mostly just a side-note; experience is only worth anything when there are feats to back it up. Luckily, Nuada has them. First of all, here's Nuada's first scene in the movie - where you see him practicing his spearplay. No enemies here, but the ridiculous level of dexterity that he has with his weapon, his agility and his precision - slicing a water droplet in half - are all very evident in here.


Now, let's talk about how Nuada copes when facing multiple enemies. Okoye has a nice showing against Klaw's thugs, however Nuada has an even better one. As you can see, Nuada goes solo against a whole squad of King Balor's royal guards. Well, Wink (the ogre) kills 2 of them but he stays out of the main part of the fight. Anyway, Nuada kills about a dozen of them - at least 8 had him surrounded and attacked him pretty much at the same time, and he got tagged only once with a weak punch to the nose. Do note how he started the fight unarmed and took one of the guards' swords after breaking his arm with a move that even Rey Mysterio would be jealous of. Okoye's feat is good; Nuada's feat is better. And I'll say that those warriors were probably far more dangerous that Klaw's thugs: first of all, they were armed whereas Klaw's guys weren't. Second, they were royal guards - it only stands to reason that they'd be highly trained, top-quality warriors of skill worthy to protect a king. You said Klaw's guys gave Panther trouble, but I think that trying to kick him 3 or 4 times, when he's crouching and they aren't, and getting all their kicks blocked - doesn't really count as putting him on the defensive. I don't see it as a good enough indication that they were anything more than somewhat-above-average crooks. All in all, I see Nuada's feat as overall superior.


Nuada's skill has a couple more showings to discuss, but not many and I'd rather save them for my next post to give it a bit more juice. I think that'd be enough for now.




Gear:





Nuada's only gear here is his spear. You've already seen that it's retractable and can be fought as a short weapon or as a long one. However, it's a magical spear, capable of hurting Hellboy:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Also here:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

And Hellboy, of course, has enhanced durability to practically all types of damage - piercing damage included. For example, a ton of Tooth Fairies had no effect on him:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

The Tooth Fairies could strip off a man's skin and flesh in seconds:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

There was also Kroenen, who only gave Hellboy a small nick on the nose with his tonfa blades:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

For comparison, Kroenen's blades can cut through stone like butter:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Anyway, Hellboy's pretty damn resistant to damage. Nuada's spear still cut him just fine with ease. It's possible that it would also cut through Okoye's armor.




A few counters:





1. The Outriders:


You made a point about scaling Okoye off the other Dora Milaje soldiers who were able to fight Outriders. Now, I'd like to state something that you may disagree with: Outriders are extremely overrated. They caused so many problems to the Avengers and Wakanda's army because of their relative physical prowess which is above that of a human, their sheer numbers and their total disregard for both pain and for their own well-being. They were basically mindless zombies on steroids. One Outrider alone is not really a threat to any warrior with even sightly above-average level of skill, especially when that warrior has reach advantage (which the Dora had thanks to their spears). The Outriders had no skill whatsoever and were basically just huge berserkers. A Dora Milaje soldier taking Outriders one-on-one, even 2 of them in quick succession, isn't really super impressive. It's not comparable to Steve and T'challa who were fighting the Outriders many at a time like the total badasses that they obviously are. And the Outriders only gave Hulkbuster trouble because Banner could barely even walk in this thing without tripping all over himself, let alone fight effectively. He wasn't even flying and was barely using his weapons (and when he did he mostly missed). He just tried to out-brawl them and eventually went down to the Outriders' sheer numbers and their total lack of fear and inability to feel pain. Put Tony in the suit instead of Banner and he would have probably been more effective in that battle than Thor was.


2. Reach:


You said Okoye has reach advantage, which is untrue. Nuada's spear is just as long as Okoye's if not more so, and he is also taller than her. The actress who plays Okoye, Danai Gurira, is 1.70 m tall. Luke Goss, the actor who plays Nuada, is 1.85 m tall. That makes Nuada half a foot taller than Okoye. So the reach advantage is in fact Nuada's, definitely not Okoye's.


3. Armor:


Probably Okoye's biggest advantage here, but it can be countered in several ways. First of all, Nuada's magic spear might just be able to pierce it since it pierced Hellboy. Neither of us can prove whether or not it will pierce the armor, so I'll leave it alone for now. Other than that, there's the fact that Nuada can use the blund end of his spear to toss Okoye around. He can even BFR her out of the arena and into the ocean, letting her drown. Or he can just throw her off her feet, whichever works for him. Then there's the fact that some of Okoye's body is still vulnerable - her hands are unprotected, and most importantly her head and neck are unprotected as well. Nuada's precision is pretty incredible as you have seen, he is able to slice a water droplet in mid-air clean in half as it's falling:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

So putting a precision shot in Okoye's neck or head isn't that much of a challenge for him.


4. Glaive and Ayo:


You said it yourself, Ayo held Glaive off for just a few seconds. She didn't really give him a fight or a challenge of any kind, him not one-shotting her doesn't make it all that impressive. All in all, the Dora Milaje are good warriors - but not true elites, I think the Jabari are a lot more impressive (speaking of which, when Nakia called Okoye the greatest warrior in Wakanda, it was before she witnessed the might of the Jabari, and especially M'Baku who I found to be more impressive than Okoye). Okoye is definitely better than any individual Dora as is appropriate for their leader, which is nice all in itself, but that doesn't really mean a whole lot.




Summary:


Nuada is stronger and more agile than Okoye, and at least as fast. He has the strength to send Okoye flying with a single hit from the blunt end of his weapon, and his agility combined with his reach advantage will make him very hard to tag. His showing against multiple opponents is better than Okoye's as well, and you'll see some more of his skill in my next post. Okoye's biggest advantage is the armor, but Nuada's got several ways of dealing with it which I detailed above.


Anyway, that will be it for my opener. Your move again my friend ;)



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#21
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 13 days, 6 hours ago
- Show Bio


@riddlerfan77:



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#22
Posted by

Kevd4wg
(8354 posts)
- 13 days, 6 hours ago
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T4V












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#23
Posted by

JSDoctor
(1162 posts)
- 13 days, 5 hours ago
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T4V please












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#24
Posted by

Riddlerfan77
(3908 posts)
- 13 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@the_red_viper: Nice opener.












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#25
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 13 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@riddlerfan77: Thank you.



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#1
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
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Representing Okoye, General of the Dora Milaje:


No Caption Provided

@anthp2000


Representing Nuada, Crown Prince of Bethmoora:


No Caption Provided

-Yours Truly


Rules:


  • In character.

  • No prep or prior knowledge.

  • Standard weapons and gear.

  • Standard elimination rules (death, KO, incapacitation).

  • Battle takes place here (start 10 meters apart facing each other.):




No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided



Challenge a Viner Rules:


  • For your vote to be counted it must not be based off the character, only the debater. Reasoning is appreciated=)

  • Regular posting, or making comments is perfectly fine. However, you are not permitted to interfere in the debate, post scans, nor start any separate debates with another user.

  • If you must correct either of us on a point or ask us a question regarding the debate, it would be appreciated if you would resort to asking us in a P.M.

  • As always, may the best debater win.



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#1
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
- Show Bio


Representing Okoye, General of the Dora Milaje:


No Caption Provided

@anthp2000


Representing Nuada, Crown Prince of Bethmoora:


No Caption Provided

-Yours Truly


Rules:


  • In character.

  • No prep or prior knowledge.

  • Standard weapons and gear.

  • Standard elimination rules (death, KO, incapacitation).

  • Battle takes place here (start 10 meters apart facing each other.):




No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided



Challenge a Viner Rules:


  • For your vote to be counted it must not be based off the character, only the debater. Reasoning is appreciated=)

  • Regular posting, or making comments is perfectly fine. However, you are not permitted to interfere in the debate, post scans, nor start any separate debates with another user.

  • If you must correct either of us on a point or ask us a question regarding the debate, it would be appreciated if you would resort to asking us in a P.M.

  • As always, may the best debater win.



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#1
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
- Show Bio


Representing Okoye, General of the Dora Milaje:


No Caption Provided

@anthp2000


Representing Nuada, Crown Prince of Bethmoora:


No Caption Provided

-Yours Truly


Rules:


  • In character.

  • No prep or prior knowledge.

  • Standard weapons and gear.

  • Standard elimination rules (death, KO, incapacitation).

  • Battle takes place here (start 10 meters apart facing each other.):




No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided



Challenge a Viner Rules:


  • For your vote to be counted it must not be based off the character, only the debater. Reasoning is appreciated=)

  • Regular posting, or making comments is perfectly fine. However, you are not permitted to interfere in the debate, post scans, nor start any separate debates with another user.

  • If you must correct either of us on a point or ask us a question regarding the debate, it would be appreciated if you would resort to asking us in a P.M.

  • As always, may the best debater win.



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#1
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
- Show Bio




Representing Okoye, General of the Dora Milaje:


No Caption Provided

@anthp2000


Representing Nuada, Crown Prince of Bethmoora:


No Caption Provided

-Yours Truly


Rules:


  • In character.

  • No prep or prior knowledge.

  • Standard weapons and gear.

  • Standard elimination rules (death, KO, incapacitation).

  • Battle takes place here (start 10 meters apart facing each other.):




No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided



Challenge a Viner Rules:


  • For your vote to be counted it must not be based off the character, only the debater. Reasoning is appreciated=)

  • Regular posting, or making comments is perfectly fine. However, you are not permitted to interfere in the debate, post scans, nor start any separate debates with another user.

  • If you must correct either of us on a point or ask us a question regarding the debate, it would be appreciated if you would resort to asking us in a P.M.

  • As always, may the best debater win.






No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided







No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided





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#2
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
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@anthp2000 It's up. Everything seems good to you?



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#2
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
- Show Bio



@anthp2000 It's up. Everything seems good to you?



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#2
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
- Show Bio



@anthp2000 It's up. Everything seems good to you?



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#2
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
- Show Bio





@anthp2000 It's up. Everything seems good to you?





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#3
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
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@the_red_viper: Looks great, expect a post soon enough.








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#3
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
- Show Bio


@the_red_viper: Looks great, expect a post soon enough.








#3
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
- Show Bio


@the_red_viper: Looks great, expect a post soon enough.







#3
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
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@the_red_viper: Looks great, expect a post soon enough.









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#4
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
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@anthp2000: Awesome.



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#4
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
- Show Bio


@anthp2000: Awesome.



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#4
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
- Show Bio


@anthp2000: Awesome.



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#4
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 1 month, 1 day ago
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@anthp2000: Awesome.





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#5
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 29 days, 17 hours ago
- Show Bio


I believe I'll be opening today/ almost fully downloaded Black Panther. Too bad I don't have the HD version of Avengers: Infinity War yet tho.








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#5
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 29 days, 17 hours ago
- Show Bio


I believe I'll be opening today/ almost fully downloaded Black Panther. Too bad I don't have the HD version of Avengers: Infinity War yet tho.








#5
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 29 days, 17 hours ago
- Show Bio


I believe I'll be opening today/ almost fully downloaded Black Panther. Too bad I don't have the HD version of Avengers: Infinity War yet tho.







#5
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 29 days, 17 hours ago
- Show Bio




I believe I'll be opening today/ almost fully downloaded Black Panther. Too bad I don't have the HD version of Avengers: Infinity War yet tho.









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#6
Posted by

geekryan
(2205 posts)
- 29 days, 16 hours ago
- Show Bio


T4V!








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#6
Posted by

geekryan
(2205 posts)
- 29 days, 16 hours ago
- Show Bio


T4V!








#6
Posted by

geekryan
(2205 posts)
- 29 days, 16 hours ago
- Show Bio


T4V!







#6
Posted by

geekryan
(2205 posts)
- 29 days, 16 hours ago
- Show Bio




T4V!









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#7
Posted by

KingCrimson
(4176 posts)
- 29 days, 15 hours ago
- Show Bio


This should be awesome. Good luck to you both!








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#7
Posted by

KingCrimson
(4176 posts)
- 29 days, 15 hours ago
- Show Bio


This should be awesome. Good luck to you both!








#7
Posted by

KingCrimson
(4176 posts)
- 29 days, 15 hours ago
- Show Bio


This should be awesome. Good luck to you both!







#7
Posted by

KingCrimson
(4176 posts)
- 29 days, 15 hours ago
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This should be awesome. Good luck to you both!









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#8
Edited by
GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 7 hours ago
- Show Bio


OH BOY


Tag after everytime @anthp2000 post and for voting








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#8
Edited by
GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 7 hours ago
- Show Bio


OH BOY


Tag after everytime @anthp2000 post and for voting








#8
Edited by
GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 7 hours ago
- Show Bio


OH BOY


Tag after everytime @anthp2000 post and for voting







#8
Edited by
GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 7 hours ago
- Show Bio




OH BOY


Tag after everytime @anthp2000 post and for voting









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#9
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 6 hours ago
- Show Bio


@gearsecond659: So... you ain't gonna read my posts?



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#9
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 6 hours ago
- Show Bio


@gearsecond659: So... you ain't gonna read my posts?



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#9
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 6 hours ago
- Show Bio


@gearsecond659: So... you ain't gonna read my posts?



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#9
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 6 hours ago
- Show Bio




@gearsecond659: So... you ain't gonna read my posts?





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#10
Posted by

GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 6 hours ago
- Show Bio


@the_red_viper: Oh I will. I am just more interested in what Okoye brings to the table and how she will be represented








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#10
Posted by

GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 6 hours ago
- Show Bio


@the_red_viper: Oh I will. I am just more interested in what Okoye brings to the table and how she will be represented








#10
Posted by

GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 6 hours ago
- Show Bio


@the_red_viper: Oh I will. I am just more interested in what Okoye brings to the table and how she will be represented







#10
Posted by

GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 6 hours ago
- Show Bio




@the_red_viper: Oh I will. I am just more interested in what Okoye brings to the table and how she will be represented









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#11
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@gearsecond659: It's alright, I was kidding.



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#11
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@gearsecond659: It's alright, I was kidding.



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#11
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@gearsecond659: It's alright, I was kidding.



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#11
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio




@gearsecond659: It's alright, I was kidding.





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#12
Posted by

GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@the_red_viper: lol. It's hard to tell someones intent just through reading text LMAO








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#12
Posted by

GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@the_red_viper: lol. It's hard to tell someones intent just through reading text LMAO








#12
Posted by

GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@the_red_viper: lol. It's hard to tell someones intent just through reading text LMAO







#12
Posted by

GearSecond659
(4277 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio




@the_red_viper: lol. It's hard to tell someones intent just through reading text LMAO









Avatar image for the_red_viper



#13
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@gearsecond659: True, true.



Moderator





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#13
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@gearsecond659: True, true.



Moderator





#13
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@gearsecond659: True, true.



Moderator




#13
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 29 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio




@gearsecond659: True, true.





Moderator




Avatar image for anthp2000



#14
Edited by
ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 25 days, 22 hours ago
- Show Bio




General Okoye


"Wakanda Forever!"


Okoye is the General of the Dora Milaje, the primary armed forces in Wakanda. Loyal to the King, Okoye and her army are the protectors of T'Challa, whom she first interacted with 10 years back, on a mission to apprehend two criminals who had kidnapped 2 soldiers of the Nation. When Killmonger became the King in 2018, Okoye was hesitant to assist in overthrowing him. Only upon seeing T'Challa was stil alive and (technically) hadn't lost the Ritual Combat challenge did she attempt to take down N'Jadaka and the Border Tribe. Wakanda opened up to the world, and it wasn't long until Thanos' invasion on Earth to retrieve the remaining Infinity Stones and wipe out half the Universe. During the Battle of Wakanda, Okoye faught alongside her fellow Wakandans and the Avengers, against hordes of Outriders, Proxima Midnight and Thanos himself.



Equipment


  • Dora Milaje Armor

  • Retractable Vibranium Spear

Melee Skill & Speed





I won't make a separate category for stats, since both combatants here utilise close range piercing weapons, though if something comes up regarding physical abilities such as strength or durability I will make sure to adress it. The important part here however, is that Okoye is a master melee fighter, and an extremely skilled fighter.



"In my mind, I saw Wakandans as a noble people, an ancient people, but in the comics, they’ve always been people who can fight really, really good. They’re incredibly dangerous. In all of them, that’s one thing that’s consistent. You don’t want to fight a Wakandan, whether it’s T’Challa, whether it’s any of them.


The casino scene, for me, was about Wakanda’s trying to hide. They’re trying to blend in. They’re trying their best not to make a scene, and eventually, they just can’t hold it in anymore. So I wanted each one of those three characters, they way that they fought to be different, and to be equally impressive."


"And then we wanted Okoye, who’s the cream of the crop of the Dora [Milaje, Black Panther’s personal bodyguards], to just be doing incredible stuff. Almost shocking, how skilled she is with this spear and how she’s taking on all these people."


Source: Director Ryan Coogler Talks ‘Black Panther’s Unbroken Casino Fight Shot, Obama’s Influence, and More [Interview]

Credit to the @thevivas for providing the accolades in his Respect Thread. I think it's worth noting that the director chooses to take note of Okoye's skill in particular, even with warriors as skilled as T'Challa part-taking in the sequence.


The most important aspect of the accolade however, is that Okoye is the "cream of the crop" of the Dora Milaje, which will be important in scaling her from the rest of the Dora Milaje below. Furthermore, Nakia entitled her "the greatest warrior Wakanda has", though it is worth noting that T'Challa was thought dead at the moment Regardless, this is important confirming her abilities among lower ranking officials of the Nation.


Accolades are great, but you need to be able to prove yourself through direct showings of combat. While Okoye hasn't had an amazing amount of screentime, her few sequences are evidence of her incredible skill.


No Caption Provided

During a mission to apprehend Ulysses Klaw, one of the most dangerous and accomplished criminals in the world, who was said to had stolen a Vibranium artifact from the Museum of Great Britain, King T'Challa handpicked the assistance of Nakia, a master spy, and Okoye to intercept a deal and take him in.


Once their cover was blown, they had to fight their way out of a horde of Klaw's mercenaries. Above we see Okoye using her retractable spear, throwing an opponent off-balance, disarming another the next one, piercing through his foot while simultaneously bashing him with the upper part, throwing her wig at the other one and throwing him out of the balcony.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Afterwards, we see Okoye fighting the combined efforts of 4 mercenaries at once, keeping all of them from closing in spinning her spear around every angle, countering one's attempt, disarming the next one and taking him down, stabbing the next, landing a headshot on the other and proceeding to hit and attempt to electrocute the other before kicking him out of the balcony.


It's worth noting that these mercenaries were rather top notch, capable of forcing T'Challa on the defensive for a few moments there, before taken down - again, I'd like to note that she wasn't T'Challa himself is a great warriors, with enhansed strength, speed and reflexes, training for his entire life, to the "highest levels" to fight. Okoye treating them like training bags in larger groups than the two that T'Challa faught, at 360 degrees and a relatively enclosed space, is very impressive.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

During Thanos' Invasion on Earth, a large Battle broke out in Wakanda, where one of the Infinity Stones was hidden. Proxima Midnight led Thanos' army herself in that battle, and Okoye faught against the alien hordes alongside T'Challa and the Avengers, right in the front line.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Focus on the background of this ability, right behind the hunk, you'll notice how the average Dora Milaje could fare against the Outriders. You'll see 1 of them on the far left taking one down in melee and moving on to the next one, while the one up close is fending off one, knocking another one down and dropping it with a headshot, hitting the charging one right in the neck and going back to the first one.


Keep in mind that the Outriders were capable of knocking down and almost overwhelming Tony Stark's Mark XLIV armor, a.k.a. the Hulkbuster armor, the same suit that "already kicked the crap outta the Hulk", by Banner's own word upon entering the battlefield. In short, the Outriders' physiology made it incredibly difficult for every superhuman on the field to overcome, they survived the outter Wakandan shields, which was considered mostly impossible, shrugged off the War Machine's most high calliver firepower, and their sheer savagery, jumping onto opponents using their 6 legs and attempting to tear their flesh off with their teeth, is what made them an incredible force to be reckoned with.


Practically, the average members of the Dora Milaje hardly qualify as 'cannon fodder'. Through sheer skill and the reach their weaponry allowed them, Okoye and the Dora Milaje held their own in the battle, pinpointing vital parts of the Outriders' bodies, parrying their bullrushes and taking out entire groups of them in little time. Okoye however, appears to be on an entirely different level than her soldier.


When Killmonger went up against 3 Dora Milaje members all at once, he seemingly remained untouched against every single one of them. That is, despite the fact the the Dora Milaje are, by word of God, trained to fight as one. You'll notice that for the most part, Okoye remains in the background, presumably waiting for an opening to strike a clean killershot.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Once Erik takes ahold of a soldier and executes her in front of her however, Okoye immediately joins the fight officially, landing a direct hit on Killmonger's shoulder, leading to another hit from a soldier next to her, and even that's not anywhere as direct as Okoye's.


Also, they're moving too fast to properly see, but those were direct hits, as we see the Panther suit lighting and absorbing the kinetic energy upon impact with the spears. Notice how Killmonger attempts to parry Okoye's hit but can't, all around demonstrating her superiority to the combined efforts of at least 2, I'd ague 3 Dora Milaje soldiers. The point at which she entered the fight, the tides turned quickly;


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

less than a minute afterwards, Okoye manages to parry a blow from Killmonger the right moment to give an opening to the other soldiers, ordering them to get Erik in a lock, use the shock function of their spears to stun him, drop him and attempt to remove the necklace, and therefore his suit, to take him down.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

While Okoye and the rest of the Dora were on the fields fighting in Wakanda, Ayo, the second highest ranking member of the army, remained in Shuri's lab to defend her and the Mind Stone. Corvus Glaive, one of Thanos' 4 most Elite warriors, attacked them however, and Ayo managed to hold him off for a few seconds, parrrying his hits and making attempts back at him.


This is impressive as Glaive is baltantly superhuman, strong enough to manhandle Captain America, a Super Soldier for whom I can provide strength showings later, and fast enough to deflect missiles and beams from one of the Infinity Stones.


Keep in mind that Glaive took down 2 Border Tribe members without any effort, dropping them with a swing of his blade, in the same sequence. The Border Tribe warriors were capable of fighting Outriders and matching the Dora Milaje themselves back in Killmonger's reign, once again demonstrating the difference between the named generals of the Milaje and the average soldiers, granted I wouldn't say the Border Tribe are precisely on par with the Dora - close enough to not make a difference.


Overall, Okoye has proven herself an exceptional martial artist and melee weapon specialist through her ability to fight large groups of skilled people, superhumans and the ability to keep up with higher tier combatants, which I can elaborate on later.




Equipment and Weapons





Being the main armed force in Wakanda is nothing to scoff at, Okoye's battle equipment is built by vibranium, the strongest metal ever shown in the MCU, making for quality armor and weapons.


Okoye's body armor is Vibranium Weave, identical to T'Challa's Black Panther suit. Basically, it's desgined to allow the user to be flexible, but is still built by Virbanium metal, capable of no-selling gunfire. The Dora Milaje armor covers Okoye's entire torso, meaning Nuada would have to target on secondary spots of the body to take her down.


Okoye's weapon of choice is the Vibranium spear given to the Dora Milaje soldiers. This is one of the very best weapons you'll find in street level fights;


  • the metal from which is built is incredibly tough, moreso than most metals

  • it offers an enormous reach advantage to the user, notice just how long it is, making Okoye's range in close combat twice as long

  • the edge of it can pierce through the most powerful of objects, armors and bodies, we've seen it cutting clean through dense vibranium

  • they allow for a high coltage shock function on both the sides and the edge, capable of conducting electricity through the sword and stunning Nuada, slowing or even putting him down

No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

While chasing down Klaw and his mercenaries in the streets of Busan, in a classic car chase sequence, Okoye threw her spear directly through the car's windows, landing in front of it, piercing the street and downright stonewalling and damaging a high speeding car. Such output would not only allow for incredible defence and parrying contests, but also the capacity to drop Nuada with a few indirect hits, easily piercing through his skin with an ideal clean hit.




Opening Thoughts


I won't talk much about the fight itself since my knowledge on Pricne Nuada is rather limited, however I will sum up Okoye's threat level;


  • Okoye is a master combatant, outfighting large groups of elite fodder from every angle, outperforming her fellow Dora Milaje soldiers, who themselves managed to fight off the superhumans on Thanos' invasion incredibly efficiently and keeping pace with Avenger level fighter (again, something I'll elaborate on later)

  • Okoye has an extreme weaponry advantage, tough as hell and even more dangerous allowing for superior reach and capacity to take out Nuada in a single hit

@the_red_viperYou're up!








Avatar image for anthp2000






#14
Edited by
ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 25 days, 22 hours ago
- Show Bio




General Okoye


"Wakanda Forever!"


Okoye is the General of the Dora Milaje, the primary armed forces in Wakanda. Loyal to the King, Okoye and her army are the protectors of T'Challa, whom she first interacted with 10 years back, on a mission to apprehend two criminals who had kidnapped 2 soldiers of the Nation. When Killmonger became the King in 2018, Okoye was hesitant to assist in overthrowing him. Only upon seeing T'Challa was stil alive and (technically) hadn't lost the Ritual Combat challenge did she attempt to take down N'Jadaka and the Border Tribe. Wakanda opened up to the world, and it wasn't long until Thanos' invasion on Earth to retrieve the remaining Infinity Stones and wipe out half the Universe. During the Battle of Wakanda, Okoye faught alongside her fellow Wakandans and the Avengers, against hordes of Outriders, Proxima Midnight and Thanos himself.



Equipment


  • Dora Milaje Armor

  • Retractable Vibranium Spear

Melee Skill & Speed





I won't make a separate category for stats, since both combatants here utilise close range piercing weapons, though if something comes up regarding physical abilities such as strength or durability I will make sure to adress it. The important part here however, is that Okoye is a master melee fighter, and an extremely skilled fighter.



"In my mind, I saw Wakandans as a noble people, an ancient people, but in the comics, they’ve always been people who can fight really, really good. They’re incredibly dangerous. In all of them, that’s one thing that’s consistent. You don’t want to fight a Wakandan, whether it’s T’Challa, whether it’s any of them.


The casino scene, for me, was about Wakanda’s trying to hide. They’re trying to blend in. They’re trying their best not to make a scene, and eventually, they just can’t hold it in anymore. So I wanted each one of those three characters, they way that they fought to be different, and to be equally impressive."


"And then we wanted Okoye, who’s the cream of the crop of the Dora [Milaje, Black Panther’s personal bodyguards], to just be doing incredible stuff. Almost shocking, how skilled she is with this spear and how she’s taking on all these people."


Source: Director Ryan Coogler Talks ‘Black Panther’s Unbroken Casino Fight Shot, Obama’s Influence, and More [Interview]

Credit to the @thevivas for providing the accolades in his Respect Thread. I think it's worth noting that the director chooses to take note of Okoye's skill in particular, even with warriors as skilled as T'Challa part-taking in the sequence.


The most important aspect of the accolade however, is that Okoye is the "cream of the crop" of the Dora Milaje, which will be important in scaling her from the rest of the Dora Milaje below. Furthermore, Nakia entitled her "the greatest warrior Wakanda has", though it is worth noting that T'Challa was thought dead at the moment Regardless, this is important confirming her abilities among lower ranking officials of the Nation.


Accolades are great, but you need to be able to prove yourself through direct showings of combat. While Okoye hasn't had an amazing amount of screentime, her few sequences are evidence of her incredible skill.


No Caption Provided

During a mission to apprehend Ulysses Klaw, one of the most dangerous and accomplished criminals in the world, who was said to had stolen a Vibranium artifact from the Museum of Great Britain, King T'Challa handpicked the assistance of Nakia, a master spy, and Okoye to intercept a deal and take him in.


Once their cover was blown, they had to fight their way out of a horde of Klaw's mercenaries. Above we see Okoye using her retractable spear, throwing an opponent off-balance, disarming another the next one, piercing through his foot while simultaneously bashing him with the upper part, throwing her wig at the other one and throwing him out of the balcony.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Afterwards, we see Okoye fighting the combined efforts of 4 mercenaries at once, keeping all of them from closing in spinning her spear around every angle, countering one's attempt, disarming the next one and taking him down, stabbing the next, landing a headshot on the other and proceeding to hit and attempt to electrocute the other before kicking him out of the balcony.


It's worth noting that these mercenaries were rather top notch, capable of forcing T'Challa on the defensive for a few moments there, before taken down - again, I'd like to note that she wasn't T'Challa himself is a great warriors, with enhansed strength, speed and reflexes, training for his entire life, to the "highest levels" to fight. Okoye treating them like training bags in larger groups than the two that T'Challa faught, at 360 degrees and a relatively enclosed space, is very impressive.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

During Thanos' Invasion on Earth, a large Battle broke out in Wakanda, where one of the Infinity Stones was hidden. Proxima Midnight led Thanos' army herself in that battle, and Okoye faught against the alien hordes alongside T'Challa and the Avengers, right in the front line.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Focus on the background of this ability, right behind the hunk, you'll notice how the average Dora Milaje could fare against the Outriders. You'll see 1 of them on the far left taking one down in melee and moving on to the next one, while the one up close is fending off one, knocking another one down and dropping it with a headshot, hitting the charging one right in the neck and going back to the first one.


Keep in mind that the Outriders were capable of knocking down and almost overwhelming Tony Stark's Mark XLIV armor, a.k.a. the Hulkbuster armor, the same suit that "already kicked the crap outta the Hulk", by Banner's own word upon entering the battlefield. In short, the Outriders' physiology made it incredibly difficult for every superhuman on the field to overcome, they survived the outter Wakandan shields, which was considered mostly impossible, shrugged off the War Machine's most high calliver firepower, and their sheer savagery, jumping onto opponents using their 6 legs and attempting to tear their flesh off with their teeth, is what made them an incredible force to be reckoned with.


Practically, the average members of the Dora Milaje hardly qualify as 'cannon fodder'. Through sheer skill and the reach their weaponry allowed them, Okoye and the Dora Milaje held their own in the battle, pinpointing vital parts of the Outriders' bodies, parrying their bullrushes and taking out entire groups of them in little time. Okoye however, appears to be on an entirely different level than her soldier.


When Killmonger went up against 3 Dora Milaje members all at once, he seemingly remained untouched against every single one of them. That is, despite the fact the the Dora Milaje are, by word of God, trained to fight as one. You'll notice that for the most part, Okoye remains in the background, presumably waiting for an opening to strike a clean killershot.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Once Erik takes ahold of a soldier and executes her in front of her however, Okoye immediately joins the fight officially, landing a direct hit on Killmonger's shoulder, leading to another hit from a soldier next to her, and even that's not anywhere as direct as Okoye's.


Also, they're moving too fast to properly see, but those were direct hits, as we see the Panther suit lighting and absorbing the kinetic energy upon impact with the spears. Notice how Killmonger attempts to parry Okoye's hit but can't, all around demonstrating her superiority to the combined efforts of at least 2, I'd ague 3 Dora Milaje soldiers. The point at which she entered the fight, the tides turned quickly;


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

less than a minute afterwards, Okoye manages to parry a blow from Killmonger the right moment to give an opening to the other soldiers, ordering them to get Erik in a lock, use the shock function of their spears to stun him, drop him and attempt to remove the necklace, and therefore his suit, to take him down.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

While Okoye and the rest of the Dora were on the fields fighting in Wakanda, Ayo, the second highest ranking member of the army, remained in Shuri's lab to defend her and the Mind Stone. Corvus Glaive, one of Thanos' 4 most Elite warriors, attacked them however, and Ayo managed to hold him off for a few seconds, parrrying his hits and making attempts back at him.


This is impressive as Glaive is baltantly superhuman, strong enough to manhandle Captain America, a Super Soldier for whom I can provide strength showings later, and fast enough to deflect missiles and beams from one of the Infinity Stones.


Keep in mind that Glaive took down 2 Border Tribe members without any effort, dropping them with a swing of his blade, in the same sequence. The Border Tribe warriors were capable of fighting Outriders and matching the Dora Milaje themselves back in Killmonger's reign, once again demonstrating the difference between the named generals of the Milaje and the average soldiers, granted I wouldn't say the Border Tribe are precisely on par with the Dora - close enough to not make a difference.


Overall, Okoye has proven herself an exceptional martial artist and melee weapon specialist through her ability to fight large groups of skilled people, superhumans and the ability to keep up with higher tier combatants, which I can elaborate on later.




Equipment and Weapons





Being the main armed force in Wakanda is nothing to scoff at, Okoye's battle equipment is built by vibranium, the strongest metal ever shown in the MCU, making for quality armor and weapons.


Okoye's body armor is Vibranium Weave, identical to T'Challa's Black Panther suit. Basically, it's desgined to allow the user to be flexible, but is still built by Virbanium metal, capable of no-selling gunfire. The Dora Milaje armor covers Okoye's entire torso, meaning Nuada would have to target on secondary spots of the body to take her down.


Okoye's weapon of choice is the Vibranium spear given to the Dora Milaje soldiers. This is one of the very best weapons you'll find in street level fights;


  • the metal from which is built is incredibly tough, moreso than most metals

  • it offers an enormous reach advantage to the user, notice just how long it is, making Okoye's range in close combat twice as long

  • the edge of it can pierce through the most powerful of objects, armors and bodies, we've seen it cutting clean through dense vibranium

  • they allow for a high coltage shock function on both the sides and the edge, capable of conducting electricity through the sword and stunning Nuada, slowing or even putting him down

No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

While chasing down Klaw and his mercenaries in the streets of Busan, in a classic car chase sequence, Okoye threw her spear directly through the car's windows, landing in front of it, piercing the street and downright stonewalling and damaging a high speeding car. Such output would not only allow for incredible defence and parrying contests, but also the capacity to drop Nuada with a few indirect hits, easily piercing through his skin with an ideal clean hit.




Opening Thoughts


I won't talk much about the fight itself since my knowledge on Pricne Nuada is rather limited, however I will sum up Okoye's threat level;


  • Okoye is a master combatant, outfighting large groups of elite fodder from every angle, outperforming her fellow Dora Milaje soldiers, who themselves managed to fight off the superhumans on Thanos' invasion incredibly efficiently and keeping pace with Avenger level fighter (again, something I'll elaborate on later)

  • Okoye has an extreme weaponry advantage, tough as hell and even more dangerous allowing for superior reach and capacity to take out Nuada in a single hit

@the_red_viperYou're up!








#14
Edited by
ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 25 days, 22 hours ago
- Show Bio




General Okoye


"Wakanda Forever!"


Okoye is the General of the Dora Milaje, the primary armed forces in Wakanda. Loyal to the King, Okoye and her army are the protectors of T'Challa, whom she first interacted with 10 years back, on a mission to apprehend two criminals who had kidnapped 2 soldiers of the Nation. When Killmonger became the King in 2018, Okoye was hesitant to assist in overthrowing him. Only upon seeing T'Challa was stil alive and (technically) hadn't lost the Ritual Combat challenge did she attempt to take down N'Jadaka and the Border Tribe. Wakanda opened up to the world, and it wasn't long until Thanos' invasion on Earth to retrieve the remaining Infinity Stones and wipe out half the Universe. During the Battle of Wakanda, Okoye faught alongside her fellow Wakandans and the Avengers, against hordes of Outriders, Proxima Midnight and Thanos himself.



Equipment


  • Dora Milaje Armor

  • Retractable Vibranium Spear

Melee Skill & Speed





I won't make a separate category for stats, since both combatants here utilise close range piercing weapons, though if something comes up regarding physical abilities such as strength or durability I will make sure to adress it. The important part here however, is that Okoye is a master melee fighter, and an extremely skilled fighter.



"In my mind, I saw Wakandans as a noble people, an ancient people, but in the comics, they’ve always been people who can fight really, really good. They’re incredibly dangerous. In all of them, that’s one thing that’s consistent. You don’t want to fight a Wakandan, whether it’s T’Challa, whether it’s any of them.


The casino scene, for me, was about Wakanda’s trying to hide. They’re trying to blend in. They’re trying their best not to make a scene, and eventually, they just can’t hold it in anymore. So I wanted each one of those three characters, they way that they fought to be different, and to be equally impressive."


"And then we wanted Okoye, who’s the cream of the crop of the Dora [Milaje, Black Panther’s personal bodyguards], to just be doing incredible stuff. Almost shocking, how skilled she is with this spear and how she’s taking on all these people."


Source: Director Ryan Coogler Talks ‘Black Panther’s Unbroken Casino Fight Shot, Obama’s Influence, and More [Interview]

Credit to the @thevivas for providing the accolades in his Respect Thread. I think it's worth noting that the director chooses to take note of Okoye's skill in particular, even with warriors as skilled as T'Challa part-taking in the sequence.


The most important aspect of the accolade however, is that Okoye is the "cream of the crop" of the Dora Milaje, which will be important in scaling her from the rest of the Dora Milaje below. Furthermore, Nakia entitled her "the greatest warrior Wakanda has", though it is worth noting that T'Challa was thought dead at the moment Regardless, this is important confirming her abilities among lower ranking officials of the Nation.


Accolades are great, but you need to be able to prove yourself through direct showings of combat. While Okoye hasn't had an amazing amount of screentime, her few sequences are evidence of her incredible skill.


No Caption Provided

During a mission to apprehend Ulysses Klaw, one of the most dangerous and accomplished criminals in the world, who was said to had stolen a Vibranium artifact from the Museum of Great Britain, King T'Challa handpicked the assistance of Nakia, a master spy, and Okoye to intercept a deal and take him in.


Once their cover was blown, they had to fight their way out of a horde of Klaw's mercenaries. Above we see Okoye using her retractable spear, throwing an opponent off-balance, disarming another the next one, piercing through his foot while simultaneously bashing him with the upper part, throwing her wig at the other one and throwing him out of the balcony.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Afterwards, we see Okoye fighting the combined efforts of 4 mercenaries at once, keeping all of them from closing in spinning her spear around every angle, countering one's attempt, disarming the next one and taking him down, stabbing the next, landing a headshot on the other and proceeding to hit and attempt to electrocute the other before kicking him out of the balcony.


It's worth noting that these mercenaries were rather top notch, capable of forcing T'Challa on the defensive for a few moments there, before taken down - again, I'd like to note that she wasn't T'Challa himself is a great warriors, with enhansed strength, speed and reflexes, training for his entire life, to the "highest levels" to fight. Okoye treating them like training bags in larger groups than the two that T'Challa faught, at 360 degrees and a relatively enclosed space, is very impressive.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

During Thanos' Invasion on Earth, a large Battle broke out in Wakanda, where one of the Infinity Stones was hidden. Proxima Midnight led Thanos' army herself in that battle, and Okoye faught against the alien hordes alongside T'Challa and the Avengers, right in the front line.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Focus on the background of this ability, right behind the hunk, you'll notice how the average Dora Milaje could fare against the Outriders. You'll see 1 of them on the far left taking one down in melee and moving on to the next one, while the one up close is fending off one, knocking another one down and dropping it with a headshot, hitting the charging one right in the neck and going back to the first one.


Keep in mind that the Outriders were capable of knocking down and almost overwhelming Tony Stark's Mark XLIV armor, a.k.a. the Hulkbuster armor, the same suit that "already kicked the crap outta the Hulk", by Banner's own word upon entering the battlefield. In short, the Outriders' physiology made it incredibly difficult for every superhuman on the field to overcome, they survived the outter Wakandan shields, which was considered mostly impossible, shrugged off the War Machine's most high calliver firepower, and their sheer savagery, jumping onto opponents using their 6 legs and attempting to tear their flesh off with their teeth, is what made them an incredible force to be reckoned with.


Practically, the average members of the Dora Milaje hardly qualify as 'cannon fodder'. Through sheer skill and the reach their weaponry allowed them, Okoye and the Dora Milaje held their own in the battle, pinpointing vital parts of the Outriders' bodies, parrying their bullrushes and taking out entire groups of them in little time. Okoye however, appears to be on an entirely different level than her soldier.


When Killmonger went up against 3 Dora Milaje members all at once, he seemingly remained untouched against every single one of them. That is, despite the fact the the Dora Milaje are, by word of God, trained to fight as one. You'll notice that for the most part, Okoye remains in the background, presumably waiting for an opening to strike a clean killershot.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Once Erik takes ahold of a soldier and executes her in front of her however, Okoye immediately joins the fight officially, landing a direct hit on Killmonger's shoulder, leading to another hit from a soldier next to her, and even that's not anywhere as direct as Okoye's.


Also, they're moving too fast to properly see, but those were direct hits, as we see the Panther suit lighting and absorbing the kinetic energy upon impact with the spears. Notice how Killmonger attempts to parry Okoye's hit but can't, all around demonstrating her superiority to the combined efforts of at least 2, I'd ague 3 Dora Milaje soldiers. The point at which she entered the fight, the tides turned quickly;


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

less than a minute afterwards, Okoye manages to parry a blow from Killmonger the right moment to give an opening to the other soldiers, ordering them to get Erik in a lock, use the shock function of their spears to stun him, drop him and attempt to remove the necklace, and therefore his suit, to take him down.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

While Okoye and the rest of the Dora were on the fields fighting in Wakanda, Ayo, the second highest ranking member of the army, remained in Shuri's lab to defend her and the Mind Stone. Corvus Glaive, one of Thanos' 4 most Elite warriors, attacked them however, and Ayo managed to hold him off for a few seconds, parrrying his hits and making attempts back at him.


This is impressive as Glaive is baltantly superhuman, strong enough to manhandle Captain America, a Super Soldier for whom I can provide strength showings later, and fast enough to deflect missiles and beams from one of the Infinity Stones.


Keep in mind that Glaive took down 2 Border Tribe members without any effort, dropping them with a swing of his blade, in the same sequence. The Border Tribe warriors were capable of fighting Outriders and matching the Dora Milaje themselves back in Killmonger's reign, once again demonstrating the difference between the named generals of the Milaje and the average soldiers, granted I wouldn't say the Border Tribe are precisely on par with the Dora - close enough to not make a difference.


Overall, Okoye has proven herself an exceptional martial artist and melee weapon specialist through her ability to fight large groups of skilled people, superhumans and the ability to keep up with higher tier combatants, which I can elaborate on later.




Equipment and Weapons





Being the main armed force in Wakanda is nothing to scoff at, Okoye's battle equipment is built by vibranium, the strongest metal ever shown in the MCU, making for quality armor and weapons.


Okoye's body armor is Vibranium Weave, identical to T'Challa's Black Panther suit. Basically, it's desgined to allow the user to be flexible, but is still built by Virbanium metal, capable of no-selling gunfire. The Dora Milaje armor covers Okoye's entire torso, meaning Nuada would have to target on secondary spots of the body to take her down.


Okoye's weapon of choice is the Vibranium spear given to the Dora Milaje soldiers. This is one of the very best weapons you'll find in street level fights;


  • the metal from which is built is incredibly tough, moreso than most metals

  • it offers an enormous reach advantage to the user, notice just how long it is, making Okoye's range in close combat twice as long

  • the edge of it can pierce through the most powerful of objects, armors and bodies, we've seen it cutting clean through dense vibranium

  • they allow for a high coltage shock function on both the sides and the edge, capable of conducting electricity through the sword and stunning Nuada, slowing or even putting him down

No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

While chasing down Klaw and his mercenaries in the streets of Busan, in a classic car chase sequence, Okoye threw her spear directly through the car's windows, landing in front of it, piercing the street and downright stonewalling and damaging a high speeding car. Such output would not only allow for incredible defence and parrying contests, but also the capacity to drop Nuada with a few indirect hits, easily piercing through his skin with an ideal clean hit.




Opening Thoughts


I won't talk much about the fight itself since my knowledge on Pricne Nuada is rather limited, however I will sum up Okoye's threat level;


  • Okoye is a master combatant, outfighting large groups of elite fodder from every angle, outperforming her fellow Dora Milaje soldiers, who themselves managed to fight off the superhumans on Thanos' invasion incredibly efficiently and keeping pace with Avenger level fighter (again, something I'll elaborate on later)

  • Okoye has an extreme weaponry advantage, tough as hell and even more dangerous allowing for superior reach and capacity to take out Nuada in a single hit

@the_red_viperYou're up!







#14
Edited by
ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 25 days, 22 hours ago
- Show Bio






General Okoye


"Wakanda Forever!"


Okoye is the General of the Dora Milaje, the primary armed forces in Wakanda. Loyal to the King, Okoye and her army are the protectors of T'Challa, whom she first interacted with 10 years back, on a mission to apprehend two criminals who had kidnapped 2 soldiers of the Nation. When Killmonger became the King in 2018, Okoye was hesitant to assist in overthrowing him. Only upon seeing T'Challa was stil alive and (technically) hadn't lost the Ritual Combat challenge did she attempt to take down N'Jadaka and the Border Tribe. Wakanda opened up to the world, and it wasn't long until Thanos' invasion on Earth to retrieve the remaining Infinity Stones and wipe out half the Universe. During the Battle of Wakanda, Okoye faught alongside her fellow Wakandans and the Avengers, against hordes of Outriders, Proxima Midnight and Thanos himself.



Equipment


  • Dora Milaje Armor

  • Retractable Vibranium Spear

Melee Skill & Speed





I won't make a separate category for stats, since both combatants here utilise close range piercing weapons, though if something comes up regarding physical abilities such as strength or durability I will make sure to adress it. The important part here however, is that Okoye is a master melee fighter, and an extremely skilled fighter.



"In my mind, I saw Wakandans as a noble people, an ancient people, but in the comics, they’ve always been people who can fight really, really good. They’re incredibly dangerous. In all of them, that’s one thing that’s consistent. You don’t want to fight a Wakandan, whether it’s T’Challa, whether it’s any of them.


The casino scene, for me, was about Wakanda’s trying to hide. They’re trying to blend in. They’re trying their best not to make a scene, and eventually, they just can’t hold it in anymore. So I wanted each one of those three characters, they way that they fought to be different, and to be equally impressive."


"And then we wanted Okoye, who’s the cream of the crop of the Dora [Milaje, Black Panther’s personal bodyguards], to just be doing incredible stuff. Almost shocking, how skilled she is with this spear and how she’s taking on all these people."


Source: Director Ryan Coogler Talks ‘Black Panther’s Unbroken Casino Fight Shot, Obama’s Influence, and More [Interview]

Credit to the @thevivas for providing the accolades in his Respect Thread. I think it's worth noting that the director chooses to take note of Okoye's skill in particular, even with warriors as skilled as T'Challa part-taking in the sequence.


The most important aspect of the accolade however, is that Okoye is the "cream of the crop" of the Dora Milaje, which will be important in scaling her from the rest of the Dora Milaje below. Furthermore, Nakia entitled her "the greatest warrior Wakanda has", though it is worth noting that T'Challa was thought dead at the moment Regardless, this is important confirming her abilities among lower ranking officials of the Nation.


Accolades are great, but you need to be able to prove yourself through direct showings of combat. While Okoye hasn't had an amazing amount of screentime, her few sequences are evidence of her incredible skill.


No Caption Provided

During a mission to apprehend Ulysses Klaw, one of the most dangerous and accomplished criminals in the world, who was said to had stolen a Vibranium artifact from the Museum of Great Britain, King T'Challa handpicked the assistance of Nakia, a master spy, and Okoye to intercept a deal and take him in.


Once their cover was blown, they had to fight their way out of a horde of Klaw's mercenaries. Above we see Okoye using her retractable spear, throwing an opponent off-balance, disarming another the next one, piercing through his foot while simultaneously bashing him with the upper part, throwing her wig at the other one and throwing him out of the balcony.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Afterwards, we see Okoye fighting the combined efforts of 4 mercenaries at once, keeping all of them from closing in spinning her spear around every angle, countering one's attempt, disarming the next one and taking him down, stabbing the next, landing a headshot on the other and proceeding to hit and attempt to electrocute the other before kicking him out of the balcony.


It's worth noting that these mercenaries were rather top notch, capable of forcing T'Challa on the defensive for a few moments there, before taken down - again, I'd like to note that she wasn't T'Challa himself is a great warriors, with enhansed strength, speed and reflexes, training for his entire life, to the "highest levels" to fight. Okoye treating them like training bags in larger groups than the two that T'Challa faught, at 360 degrees and a relatively enclosed space, is very impressive.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

During Thanos' Invasion on Earth, a large Battle broke out in Wakanda, where one of the Infinity Stones was hidden. Proxima Midnight led Thanos' army herself in that battle, and Okoye faught against the alien hordes alongside T'Challa and the Avengers, right in the front line.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Focus on the background of this ability, right behind the hunk, you'll notice how the average Dora Milaje could fare against the Outriders. You'll see 1 of them on the far left taking one down in melee and moving on to the next one, while the one up close is fending off one, knocking another one down and dropping it with a headshot, hitting the charging one right in the neck and going back to the first one.


Keep in mind that the Outriders were capable of knocking down and almost overwhelming Tony Stark's Mark XLIV armor, a.k.a. the Hulkbuster armor, the same suit that "already kicked the crap outta the Hulk", by Banner's own word upon entering the battlefield. In short, the Outriders' physiology made it incredibly difficult for every superhuman on the field to overcome, they survived the outter Wakandan shields, which was considered mostly impossible, shrugged off the War Machine's most high calliver firepower, and their sheer savagery, jumping onto opponents using their 6 legs and attempting to tear their flesh off with their teeth, is what made them an incredible force to be reckoned with.


Practically, the average members of the Dora Milaje hardly qualify as 'cannon fodder'. Through sheer skill and the reach their weaponry allowed them, Okoye and the Dora Milaje held their own in the battle, pinpointing vital parts of the Outriders' bodies, parrying their bullrushes and taking out entire groups of them in little time. Okoye however, appears to be on an entirely different level than her soldier.


When Killmonger went up against 3 Dora Milaje members all at once, he seemingly remained untouched against every single one of them. That is, despite the fact the the Dora Milaje are, by word of God, trained to fight as one. You'll notice that for the most part, Okoye remains in the background, presumably waiting for an opening to strike a clean killershot.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Once Erik takes ahold of a soldier and executes her in front of her however, Okoye immediately joins the fight officially, landing a direct hit on Killmonger's shoulder, leading to another hit from a soldier next to her, and even that's not anywhere as direct as Okoye's.


Also, they're moving too fast to properly see, but those were direct hits, as we see the Panther suit lighting and absorbing the kinetic energy upon impact with the spears. Notice how Killmonger attempts to parry Okoye's hit but can't, all around demonstrating her superiority to the combined efforts of at least 2, I'd ague 3 Dora Milaje soldiers. The point at which she entered the fight, the tides turned quickly;


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

less than a minute afterwards, Okoye manages to parry a blow from Killmonger the right moment to give an opening to the other soldiers, ordering them to get Erik in a lock, use the shock function of their spears to stun him, drop him and attempt to remove the necklace, and therefore his suit, to take him down.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

While Okoye and the rest of the Dora were on the fields fighting in Wakanda, Ayo, the second highest ranking member of the army, remained in Shuri's lab to defend her and the Mind Stone. Corvus Glaive, one of Thanos' 4 most Elite warriors, attacked them however, and Ayo managed to hold him off for a few seconds, parrrying his hits and making attempts back at him.


This is impressive as Glaive is baltantly superhuman, strong enough to manhandle Captain America, a Super Soldier for whom I can provide strength showings later, and fast enough to deflect missiles and beams from one of the Infinity Stones.


Keep in mind that Glaive took down 2 Border Tribe members without any effort, dropping them with a swing of his blade, in the same sequence. The Border Tribe warriors were capable of fighting Outriders and matching the Dora Milaje themselves back in Killmonger's reign, once again demonstrating the difference between the named generals of the Milaje and the average soldiers, granted I wouldn't say the Border Tribe are precisely on par with the Dora - close enough to not make a difference.


Overall, Okoye has proven herself an exceptional martial artist and melee weapon specialist through her ability to fight large groups of skilled people, superhumans and the ability to keep up with higher tier combatants, which I can elaborate on later.




Equipment and Weapons





Being the main armed force in Wakanda is nothing to scoff at, Okoye's battle equipment is built by vibranium, the strongest metal ever shown in the MCU, making for quality armor and weapons.


Okoye's body armor is Vibranium Weave, identical to T'Challa's Black Panther suit. Basically, it's desgined to allow the user to be flexible, but is still built by Virbanium metal, capable of no-selling gunfire. The Dora Milaje armor covers Okoye's entire torso, meaning Nuada would have to target on secondary spots of the body to take her down.


Okoye's weapon of choice is the Vibranium spear given to the Dora Milaje soldiers. This is one of the very best weapons you'll find in street level fights;


  • the metal from which is built is incredibly tough, moreso than most metals

  • it offers an enormous reach advantage to the user, notice just how long it is, making Okoye's range in close combat twice as long

  • the edge of it can pierce through the most powerful of objects, armors and bodies, we've seen it cutting clean through dense vibranium

  • they allow for a high coltage shock function on both the sides and the edge, capable of conducting electricity through the sword and stunning Nuada, slowing or even putting him down

No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

While chasing down Klaw and his mercenaries in the streets of Busan, in a classic car chase sequence, Okoye threw her spear directly through the car's windows, landing in front of it, piercing the street and downright stonewalling and damaging a high speeding car. Such output would not only allow for incredible defence and parrying contests, but also the capacity to drop Nuada with a few indirect hits, easily piercing through his skin with an ideal clean hit.




Opening Thoughts


I won't talk much about the fight itself since my knowledge on Pricne Nuada is rather limited, however I will sum up Okoye's threat level;


  • Okoye is a master combatant, outfighting large groups of elite fodder from every angle, outperforming her fellow Dora Milaje soldiers, who themselves managed to fight off the superhumans on Thanos' invasion incredibly efficiently and keeping pace with Avenger level fighter (again, something I'll elaborate on later)

  • Okoye has an extreme weaponry advantage, tough as hell and even more dangerous allowing for superior reach and capacity to take out Nuada in a single hit

@the_red_viperYou're up!





Okoye is the General of the Dora Milaje, the primary armed forces in Wakanda. Loyal to the King, Okoye and her army are the protectors of T'Challa, whom she first interacted with 10 years back, on a mission to apprehend two criminals who had kidnapped 2 soldiers of the Nation. When Killmonger became the King in 2018, Okoye was hesitant to assist in overthrowing him. Only upon seeing T'Challa was stil alive and (technically) hadn't lost the Ritual Combat challenge did she attempt to take down N'Jadaka and the Border Tribe. Wakanda opened up to the world, and it wasn't long until Thanos' invasion on Earth to retrieve the remaining Infinity Stones and wipe out half the Universe. During the Battle of Wakanda, Okoye faught alongside her fellow Wakandans and the Avengers, against hordes of Outriders, Proxima Midnight and Thanos himself.






Okoye is the General of the Dora Milaje, the primary armed forces in Wakanda. Loyal to the King, Okoye and her army are the protectors of T'Challa, whom she first interacted with 10 years back, on a mission to apprehend two criminals who had kidnapped 2 soldiers of the Nation. When Killmonger became the King in 2018, Okoye was hesitant to assist in overthrowing him. Only upon seeing T'Challa was stil alive and (technically) hadn't lost the Ritual Combat challenge did she attempt to take down N'Jadaka and the Border Tribe. Wakanda opened up to the world, and it wasn't long until Thanos' invasion on Earth to retrieve the remaining Infinity Stones and wipe out half the Universe. During the Battle of Wakanda, Okoye faught alongside her fellow Wakandans and the Avengers, against hordes of Outriders, Proxima Midnight and Thanos himself.






I won't make a separate category for stats, since both combatants here utilise close range piercing weapons, though if something comes up regarding physical abilities such as strength or durability I will make sure to adress it. The important part here however, is that Okoye is a master melee fighter, and an extremely skilled fighter.



"In my mind, I saw Wakandans as a noble people, an ancient people, but in the comics, they’ve always been people who can fight really, really good. They’re incredibly dangerous. In all of them, that’s one thing that’s consistent. You don’t want to fight a Wakandan, whether it’s T’Challa, whether it’s any of them.


The casino scene, for me, was about Wakanda’s trying to hide. They’re trying to blend in. They’re trying their best not to make a scene, and eventually, they just can’t hold it in anymore. So I wanted each one of those three characters, they way that they fought to be different, and to be equally impressive."


"And then we wanted Okoye, who’s the cream of the crop of the Dora [Milaje, Black Panther’s personal bodyguards], to just be doing incredible stuff. Almost shocking, how skilled she is with this spear and how she’s taking on all these people."


Source: Director Ryan Coogler Talks ‘Black Panther’s Unbroken Casino Fight Shot, Obama’s Influence, and More [Interview]

Credit to the @thevivas for providing the accolades in his Respect Thread. I think it's worth noting that the director chooses to take note of Okoye's skill in particular, even with warriors as skilled as T'Challa part-taking in the sequence.


The most important aspect of the accolade however, is that Okoye is the "cream of the crop" of the Dora Milaje, which will be important in scaling her from the rest of the Dora Milaje below. Furthermore, Nakia entitled her "the greatest warrior Wakanda has", though it is worth noting that T'Challa was thought dead at the moment Regardless, this is important confirming her abilities among lower ranking officials of the Nation.


Accolades are great, but you need to be able to prove yourself through direct showings of combat. While Okoye hasn't had an amazing amount of screentime, her few sequences are evidence of her incredible skill.


No Caption Provided

During a mission to apprehend Ulysses Klaw, one of the most dangerous and accomplished criminals in the world, who was said to had stolen a Vibranium artifact from the Museum of Great Britain, King T'Challa handpicked the assistance of Nakia, a master spy, and Okoye to intercept a deal and take him in.


Once their cover was blown, they had to fight their way out of a horde of Klaw's mercenaries. Above we see Okoye using her retractable spear, throwing an opponent off-balance, disarming another the next one, piercing through his foot while simultaneously bashing him with the upper part, throwing her wig at the other one and throwing him out of the balcony.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Afterwards, we see Okoye fighting the combined efforts of 4 mercenaries at once, keeping all of them from closing in spinning her spear around every angle, countering one's attempt, disarming the next one and taking him down, stabbing the next, landing a headshot on the other and proceeding to hit and attempt to electrocute the other before kicking him out of the balcony.


It's worth noting that these mercenaries were rather top notch, capable of forcing T'Challa on the defensive for a few moments there, before taken down - again, I'd like to note that she wasn't T'Challa himself is a great warriors, with enhansed strength, speed and reflexes, training for his entire life, to the "highest levels" to fight. Okoye treating them like training bags in larger groups than the two that T'Challa faught, at 360 degrees and a relatively enclosed space, is very impressive.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

During Thanos' Invasion on Earth, a large Battle broke out in Wakanda, where one of the Infinity Stones was hidden. Proxima Midnight led Thanos' army herself in that battle, and Okoye faught against the alien hordes alongside T'Challa and the Avengers, right in the front line.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Focus on the background of this ability, right behind the hunk, you'll notice how the average Dora Milaje could fare against the Outriders. You'll see 1 of them on the far left taking one down in melee and moving on to the next one, while the one up close is fending off one, knocking another one down and dropping it with a headshot, hitting the charging one right in the neck and going back to the first one.


Keep in mind that the Outriders were capable of knocking down and almost overwhelming Tony Stark's Mark XLIV armor, a.k.a. the Hulkbuster armor, the same suit that "already kicked the crap outta the Hulk", by Banner's own word upon entering the battlefield. In short, the Outriders' physiology made it incredibly difficult for every superhuman on the field to overcome, they survived the outter Wakandan shields, which was considered mostly impossible, shrugged off the War Machine's most high calliver firepower, and their sheer savagery, jumping onto opponents using their 6 legs and attempting to tear their flesh off with their teeth, is what made them an incredible force to be reckoned with.


Practically, the average members of the Dora Milaje hardly qualify as 'cannon fodder'. Through sheer skill and the reach their weaponry allowed them, Okoye and the Dora Milaje held their own in the battle, pinpointing vital parts of the Outriders' bodies, parrying their bullrushes and taking out entire groups of them in little time. Okoye however, appears to be on an entirely different level than her soldier.


When Killmonger went up against 3 Dora Milaje members all at once, he seemingly remained untouched against every single one of them. That is, despite the fact the the Dora Milaje are, by word of God, trained to fight as one. You'll notice that for the most part, Okoye remains in the background, presumably waiting for an opening to strike a clean killershot.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Once Erik takes ahold of a soldier and executes her in front of her however, Okoye immediately joins the fight officially, landing a direct hit on Killmonger's shoulder, leading to another hit from a soldier next to her, and even that's not anywhere as direct as Okoye's.


Also, they're moving too fast to properly see, but those were direct hits, as we see the Panther suit lighting and absorbing the kinetic energy upon impact with the spears. Notice how Killmonger attempts to parry Okoye's hit but can't, all around demonstrating her superiority to the combined efforts of at least 2, I'd ague 3 Dora Milaje soldiers. The point at which she entered the fight, the tides turned quickly;


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

less than a minute afterwards, Okoye manages to parry a blow from Killmonger the right moment to give an opening to the other soldiers, ordering them to get Erik in a lock, use the shock function of their spears to stun him, drop him and attempt to remove the necklace, and therefore his suit, to take him down.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

While Okoye and the rest of the Dora were on the fields fighting in Wakanda, Ayo, the second highest ranking member of the army, remained in Shuri's lab to defend her and the Mind Stone. Corvus Glaive, one of Thanos' 4 most Elite warriors, attacked them however, and Ayo managed to hold him off for a few seconds, parrrying his hits and making attempts back at him.


This is impressive as Glaive is baltantly superhuman, strong enough to manhandle Captain America, a Super Soldier for whom I can provide strength showings later, and fast enough to deflect missiles and beams from one of the Infinity Stones.


Keep in mind that Glaive took down 2 Border Tribe members without any effort, dropping them with a swing of his blade, in the same sequence. The Border Tribe warriors were capable of fighting Outriders and matching the Dora Milaje themselves back in Killmonger's reign, once again demonstrating the difference between the named generals of the Milaje and the average soldiers, granted I wouldn't say the Border Tribe are precisely on par with the Dora - close enough to not make a difference.


Overall, Okoye has proven herself an exceptional martial artist and melee weapon specialist through her ability to fight large groups of skilled people, superhumans and the ability to keep up with higher tier combatants, which I can elaborate on later.








I won't make a separate category for stats, since both combatants here utilise close range piercing weapons, though if something comes up regarding physical abilities such as strength or durability I will make sure to adress it. The important part here however, is that Okoye is a master melee fighter, and an extremely skilled fighter.



"In my mind, I saw Wakandans as a noble people, an ancient people, but in the comics, they’ve always been people who can fight really, really good. They’re incredibly dangerous. In all of them, that’s one thing that’s consistent. You don’t want to fight a Wakandan, whether it’s T’Challa, whether it’s any of them.


The casino scene, for me, was about Wakanda’s trying to hide. They’re trying to blend in. They’re trying their best not to make a scene, and eventually, they just can’t hold it in anymore. So I wanted each one of those three characters, they way that they fought to be different, and to be equally impressive."


"And then we wanted Okoye, who’s the cream of the crop of the Dora [Milaje, Black Panther’s personal bodyguards], to just be doing incredible stuff. Almost shocking, how skilled she is with this spear and how she’s taking on all these people."


Source: Director Ryan Coogler Talks ‘Black Panther’s Unbroken Casino Fight Shot, Obama’s Influence, and More [Interview]

Credit to the @thevivas for providing the accolades in his Respect Thread. I think it's worth noting that the director chooses to take note of Okoye's skill in particular, even with warriors as skilled as T'Challa part-taking in the sequence.


The most important aspect of the accolade however, is that Okoye is the "cream of the crop" of the Dora Milaje, which will be important in scaling her from the rest of the Dora Milaje below. Furthermore, Nakia entitled her "the greatest warrior Wakanda has", though it is worth noting that T'Challa was thought dead at the moment Regardless, this is important confirming her abilities among lower ranking officials of the Nation.


Accolades are great, but you need to be able to prove yourself through direct showings of combat. While Okoye hasn't had an amazing amount of screentime, her few sequences are evidence of her incredible skill.


No Caption Provided

During a mission to apprehend Ulysses Klaw, one of the most dangerous and accomplished criminals in the world, who was said to had stolen a Vibranium artifact from the Museum of Great Britain, King T'Challa handpicked the assistance of Nakia, a master spy, and Okoye to intercept a deal and take him in.


Once their cover was blown, they had to fight their way out of a horde of Klaw's mercenaries. Above we see Okoye using her retractable spear, throwing an opponent off-balance, disarming another the next one, piercing through his foot while simultaneously bashing him with the upper part, throwing her wig at the other one and throwing him out of the balcony.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Afterwards, we see Okoye fighting the combined efforts of 4 mercenaries at once, keeping all of them from closing in spinning her spear around every angle, countering one's attempt, disarming the next one and taking him down, stabbing the next, landing a headshot on the other and proceeding to hit and attempt to electrocute the other before kicking him out of the balcony.


It's worth noting that these mercenaries were rather top notch, capable of forcing T'Challa on the defensive for a few moments there, before taken down - again, I'd like to note that she wasn't T'Challa himself is a great warriors, with enhansed strength, speed and reflexes, training for his entire life, to the "highest levels" to fight. Okoye treating them like training bags in larger groups than the two that T'Challa faught, at 360 degrees and a relatively enclosed space, is very impressive.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

During Thanos' Invasion on Earth, a large Battle broke out in Wakanda, where one of the Infinity Stones was hidden. Proxima Midnight led Thanos' army herself in that battle, and Okoye faught against the alien hordes alongside T'Challa and the Avengers, right in the front line.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Focus on the background of this ability, right behind the hunk, you'll notice how the average Dora Milaje could fare against the Outriders. You'll see 1 of them on the far left taking one down in melee and moving on to the next one, while the one up close is fending off one, knocking another one down and dropping it with a headshot, hitting the charging one right in the neck and going back to the first one.


Keep in mind that the Outriders were capable of knocking down and almost overwhelming Tony Stark's Mark XLIV armor, a.k.a. the Hulkbuster armor, the same suit that "already kicked the crap outta the Hulk", by Banner's own word upon entering the battlefield. In short, the Outriders' physiology made it incredibly difficult for every superhuman on the field to overcome, they survived the outter Wakandan shields, which was considered mostly impossible, shrugged off the War Machine's most high calliver firepower, and their sheer savagery, jumping onto opponents using their 6 legs and attempting to tear their flesh off with their teeth, is what made them an incredible force to be reckoned with.


Practically, the average members of the Dora Milaje hardly qualify as 'cannon fodder'. Through sheer skill and the reach their weaponry allowed them, Okoye and the Dora Milaje held their own in the battle, pinpointing vital parts of the Outriders' bodies, parrying their bullrushes and taking out entire groups of them in little time. Okoye however, appears to be on an entirely different level than her soldier.


When Killmonger went up against 3 Dora Milaje members all at once, he seemingly remained untouched against every single one of them. That is, despite the fact the the Dora Milaje are, by word of God, trained to fight as one. You'll notice that for the most part, Okoye remains in the background, presumably waiting for an opening to strike a clean killershot.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Once Erik takes ahold of a soldier and executes her in front of her however, Okoye immediately joins the fight officially, landing a direct hit on Killmonger's shoulder, leading to another hit from a soldier next to her, and even that's not anywhere as direct as Okoye's.


Also, they're moving too fast to properly see, but those were direct hits, as we see the Panther suit lighting and absorbing the kinetic energy upon impact with the spears. Notice how Killmonger attempts to parry Okoye's hit but can't, all around demonstrating her superiority to the combined efforts of at least 2, I'd ague 3 Dora Milaje soldiers. The point at which she entered the fight, the tides turned quickly;


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

less than a minute afterwards, Okoye manages to parry a blow from Killmonger the right moment to give an opening to the other soldiers, ordering them to get Erik in a lock, use the shock function of their spears to stun him, drop him and attempt to remove the necklace, and therefore his suit, to take him down.


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

While Okoye and the rest of the Dora were on the fields fighting in Wakanda, Ayo, the second highest ranking member of the army, remained in Shuri's lab to defend her and the Mind Stone. Corvus Glaive, one of Thanos' 4 most Elite warriors, attacked them however, and Ayo managed to hold him off for a few seconds, parrrying his hits and making attempts back at him.


This is impressive as Glaive is baltantly superhuman, strong enough to manhandle Captain America, a Super Soldier for whom I can provide strength showings later, and fast enough to deflect missiles and beams from one of the Infinity Stones.


Keep in mind that Glaive took down 2 Border Tribe members without any effort, dropping them with a swing of his blade, in the same sequence. The Border Tribe warriors were capable of fighting Outriders and matching the Dora Milaje themselves back in Killmonger's reign, once again demonstrating the difference between the named generals of the Milaje and the average soldiers, granted I wouldn't say the Border Tribe are precisely on par with the Dora - close enough to not make a difference.


Overall, Okoye has proven herself an exceptional martial artist and melee weapon specialist through her ability to fight large groups of skilled people, superhumans and the ability to keep up with higher tier combatants, which I can elaborate on later.







Being the main armed force in Wakanda is nothing to scoff at, Okoye's battle equipment is built by vibranium, the strongest metal ever shown in the MCU, making for quality armor and weapons.


Okoye's body armor is Vibranium Weave, identical to T'Challa's Black Panther suit. Basically, it's desgined to allow the user to be flexible, but is still built by Virbanium metal, capable of no-selling gunfire. The Dora Milaje armor covers Okoye's entire torso, meaning Nuada would have to target on secondary spots of the body to take her down.


Okoye's weapon of choice is the Vibranium spear given to the Dora Milaje soldiers. This is one of the very best weapons you'll find in street level fights;


  • the metal from which is built is incredibly tough, moreso than most metals

  • it offers an enormous reach advantage to the user, notice just how long it is, making Okoye's range in close combat twice as long

  • the edge of it can pierce through the most powerful of objects, armors and bodies, we've seen it cutting clean through dense vibranium

  • they allow for a high coltage shock function on both the sides and the edge, capable of conducting electricity through the sword and stunning Nuada, slowing or even putting him down

No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

While chasing down Klaw and his mercenaries in the streets of Busan, in a classic car chase sequence, Okoye threw her spear directly through the car's windows, landing in front of it, piercing the street and downright stonewalling and damaging a high speeding car. Such output would not only allow for incredible defence and parrying contests, but also the capacity to drop Nuada with a few indirect hits, easily piercing through his skin with an ideal clean hit.








Being the main armed force in Wakanda is nothing to scoff at, Okoye's battle equipment is built by vibranium, the strongest metal ever shown in the MCU, making for quality armor and weapons.


Okoye's body armor is Vibranium Weave, identical to T'Challa's Black Panther suit. Basically, it's desgined to allow the user to be flexible, but is still built by Virbanium metal, capable of no-selling gunfire. The Dora Milaje armor covers Okoye's entire torso, meaning Nuada would have to target on secondary spots of the body to take her down.


Okoye's weapon of choice is the Vibranium spear given to the Dora Milaje soldiers. This is one of the very best weapons you'll find in street level fights;


  • the metal from which is built is incredibly tough, moreso than most metals

  • it offers an enormous reach advantage to the user, notice just how long it is, making Okoye's range in close combat twice as long

  • the edge of it can pierce through the most powerful of objects, armors and bodies, we've seen it cutting clean through dense vibranium

  • they allow for a high coltage shock function on both the sides and the edge, capable of conducting electricity through the sword and stunning Nuada, slowing or even putting him down

No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

While chasing down Klaw and his mercenaries in the streets of Busan, in a classic car chase sequence, Okoye threw her spear directly through the car's windows, landing in front of it, piercing the street and downright stonewalling and damaging a high speeding car. Such output would not only allow for incredible defence and parrying contests, but also the capacity to drop Nuada with a few indirect hits, easily piercing through his skin with an ideal clean hit.










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#15
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 25 days, 22 hours ago
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@the_red_viper sorry for the delay, my computer was being a little stupid

@gearsecond659 post is up.








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#15
Posted by

ANTHP2000
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- 25 days, 22 hours ago
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@the_red_viper sorry for the delay, my computer was being a little stupid

@gearsecond659 post is up.








#15
Posted by

ANTHP2000
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- 25 days, 22 hours ago
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@the_red_viper sorry for the delay, my computer was being a little stupid

@gearsecond659 post is up.







#15
Posted by

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- 25 days, 22 hours ago
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@the_red_viper sorry for the delay, my computer was being a little stupid

@gearsecond659 post is up.









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#16
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 25 days, 17 hours ago
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@anthp2000: Awesome. I got some stuff to take care of first but I'll get to this as soon as I can.



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#16
Posted by

the_red_viper
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- 25 days, 17 hours ago
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@anthp2000: Awesome. I got some stuff to take care of first but I'll get to this as soon as I can.



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#16
Posted by

the_red_viper
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- 25 days, 17 hours ago
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@anthp2000: Awesome. I got some stuff to take care of first but I'll get to this as soon as I can.



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#16
Posted by

the_red_viper
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- 25 days, 17 hours ago
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@anthp2000: Awesome. I got some stuff to take care of first but I'll get to this as soon as I can.





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#17
Posted by

Riddlerfan77
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- 25 days, 16 hours ago
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T4V and after every post.








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#17
Posted by

Riddlerfan77
(3908 posts)
- 25 days, 16 hours ago
- Show Bio


T4V and after every post.








#17
Posted by

Riddlerfan77
(3908 posts)
- 25 days, 16 hours ago
- Show Bio


T4V and after every post.







#17
Posted by

Riddlerfan77
(3908 posts)
- 25 days, 16 hours ago
- Show Bio




T4V and after every post.









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#18
Posted by

the_red_viper
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- 16 days, 5 hours ago
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@anthp2000: Hey, do know that I haven't forgotten about this. I was already busy with writing my post for my CaV with @wyldsong when you posted your opener, and it took longer than I expected. I only got it over with tonight. I'll start writing my opener as soon as I can, I make no promises but I think you can expect it by the end of the week.



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#18
Posted by

the_red_viper
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- 16 days, 5 hours ago
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@anthp2000: Hey, do know that I haven't forgotten about this. I was already busy with writing my post for my CaV with @wyldsong when you posted your opener, and it took longer than I expected. I only got it over with tonight. I'll start writing my opener as soon as I can, I make no promises but I think you can expect it by the end of the week.



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#18
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 16 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio


@anthp2000: Hey, do know that I haven't forgotten about this. I was already busy with writing my post for my CaV with @wyldsong when you posted your opener, and it took longer than I expected. I only got it over with tonight. I'll start writing my opener as soon as I can, I make no promises but I think you can expect it by the end of the week.



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#18
Posted by

the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 16 days, 5 hours ago
- Show Bio




@anthp2000: Hey, do know that I haven't forgotten about this. I was already busy with writing my post for my CaV with @wyldsong when you posted your opener, and it took longer than I expected. I only got it over with tonight. I'll start writing my opener as soon as I can, I make no promises but I think you can expect it by the end of the week.





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#19
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 15 days, 3 hours ago
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@the_red_viper:


No worries, I probably won't be posting for some time either, my computer is having some real difficulty - and of course that had to happen in the middle of like 5 ongoing CaVs.








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#19
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 15 days, 3 hours ago
- Show Bio


@the_red_viper:


No worries, I probably won't be posting for some time either, my computer is having some real difficulty - and of course that had to happen in the middle of like 5 ongoing CaVs.








#19
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 15 days, 3 hours ago
- Show Bio


@the_red_viper:


No worries, I probably won't be posting for some time either, my computer is having some real difficulty - and of course that had to happen in the middle of like 5 ongoing CaVs.







#19
Posted by

ANTHP2000
(17808 posts)
- 15 days, 3 hours ago
- Show Bio




@the_red_viper:


No worries, I probably won't be posting for some time either, my computer is having some real difficulty - and of course that had to happen in the middle of like 5 ongoing CaVs.









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#20
Edited by
the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 13 days, 6 hours ago
- Show Bio


@anthp2000: Alright, here we go. Sorry for the long wait. Anyway...


Prince Nuada's theme song for this fight:


Loading Video...

Introducing Prince Nuada Silverlance:


No Caption Provided

"I am Prince Nuada Silverlance, Son of King Balor. And I am here, sir, to reclaim what is rightfully mine."


Nuada, Crown Prince of Bethmoora, is the son of King Balor and twin brother of Princess Nuala.


The legends say, that at the dawn of time, man, beast and all magical beings lived together in peace. But, greed and lust for power corrupted mankind, and they waged war against all the other species, seeking to rule the Earth. One day, the head of the Goblin blacksmiths, approached King Balor and offered to build him a golden army of 70 times 70 automated soldiers who know no pain or remorse and cannot be defeated. Prince Nuada urged his father to take the offer, and so the army was built, and when mankind attacked once more - they were faced with an army that they could not defeat, and died by the thousands. King Balor then decided that he wants no more bloodshed, and struck an eternal truce with mankind. But, Prince Nuada did not trust the promises of mankind, and went into exile - vowing to return when his people needed him most.


These legends happen to be true, and Prince Nuada did return - seeking the three pieces of the crown that gives its wearer control over the Golden Army, in order to bring down mankind once and for all.


Nuada has only appeared in the movie "Hellboy II: The Golden Army", and as such has a very limited number of feats, so my posts here won't be very long. That being said, what he does have is very impressive.


Stats:





Nuada's biggest advantage here is where stats are concerned. First of all, strength. I won't dwell too much on that because it's pretty straightforward. Nuada has matched strength with Hellboy:


No Caption Provided

Who matched strength with a speeding car:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

I can show you many of Hellboy's strength feats if you want. Basically, he is a multi-tonner, a bit above MCU Super-Soldier tier. Okoye's not what I'd call weak by any means, but she is not as strong as Hellboy, and in turn Nuada.


Nuada can put his strength to good use by ragdolling Okoye with strikes from the blunt end of his spear, like so:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Other than that, there's speed and agility. It will be best demonstrated when seeing his full fight-scenes, so I'll leave it to be discussed alongside skill.




Skill:





I won't lie, Okoye is very skilled. However, Nuada is more skilled. He just has better feats against better, and more numerous opponents.


Before I start showing you feats, I'll urge you to pay close attention not only to Nuada's martial skill, but also his speed and agility. They're hard to demonstrate without viewing full fight-scenes which is why I preferred discussing them here.


First of all, before moving on to the actual feats, I'd like to point out that Nuada is far more experienced than Okoye. He's lived in what the legends call "the dawn of time", an age before recorded history. That means thousands and thousands of years at least, in which Nuada trained, fought and gained experience as a warrior. As opposed to Okoye, who should be... in her early thirties? Less even?


However that's mostly just a side-note; experience is only worth anything when there are feats to back it up. Luckily, Nuada has them. First of all, here's Nuada's first scene in the movie - where you see him practicing his spearplay. No enemies here, but the ridiculous level of dexterity that he has with his weapon, his agility and his precision - slicing a water droplet in half - are all very evident in here.


Now, let's talk about how Nuada copes when facing multiple enemies. Okoye has a nice showing against Klaw's thugs, however Nuada has an even better one. As you can see, Nuada goes solo against a whole squad of King Balor's royal guards. Well, Wink (the ogre) kills 2 of them but he stays out of the main part of the fight. Anyway, Nuada kills about a dozen of them - at least 8 had him surrounded and attacked him pretty much at the same time, and he got tagged only once with a weak punch to the nose. Do note how he started the fight unarmed and took one of the guards' swords after breaking his arm with a move that even Rey Mysterio would be jealous of. Okoye's feat is good; Nuada's feat is better. And I'll say that those warriors were probably far more dangerous that Klaw's thugs: first of all, they were armed whereas Klaw's guys weren't. Second, they were royal guards - it only stands to reason that they'd be highly trained, top-quality warriors of skill worthy to protect a king. You said Klaw's guys gave Panther trouble, but I think that trying to kick him 3 or 4 times, when he's crouching and they aren't, and getting all their kicks blocked - doesn't really count as putting him on the defensive. I don't see it as a good enough indication that they were anything more than somewhat-above-average crooks. All in all, I see Nuada's feat as overall superior.


Nuada's skill has a couple more showings to discuss, but not many and I'd rather save them for my next post to give it a bit more juice. I think that'd be enough for now.




Gear:





Nuada's only gear here is his spear. You've already seen that it's retractable and can be fought as a short weapon or as a long one. However, it's a magical spear, capable of hurting Hellboy:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Also here:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

And Hellboy, of course, has enhanced durability to practically all types of damage - piercing damage included. For example, a ton of Tooth Fairies had no effect on him:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

The Tooth Fairies could strip off a man's skin and flesh in seconds:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

There was also Kroenen, who only gave Hellboy a small nick on the nose with his tonfa blades:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

For comparison, Kroenen's blades can cut through stone like butter:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Anyway, Hellboy's pretty damn resistant to damage. Nuada's spear still cut him just fine with ease. It's possible that it would also cut through Okoye's armor.




A few counters:





1. The Outriders:


You made a point about scaling Okoye off the other Dora Milaje soldiers who were able to fight Outriders. Now, I'd like to state something that you may disagree with: Outriders are extremely overrated. They caused so many problems to the Avengers and Wakanda's army because of their relative physical prowess which is above that of a human, their sheer numbers and their total disregard for both pain and for their own well-being. They were basically mindless zombies on steroids. One Outrider alone is not really a threat to any warrior with even sightly above-average level of skill, especially when that warrior has reach advantage (which the Dora had thanks to their spears). The Outriders had no skill whatsoever and were basically just huge berserkers. A Dora Milaje soldier taking Outriders one-on-one, even 2 of them in quick succession, isn't really super impressive. It's not comparable to Steve and T'challa who were fighting the Outriders many at a time like the total badasses that they obviously are. And the Outriders only gave Hulkbuster trouble because Banner could barely even walk in this thing without tripping all over himself, let alone fight effectively. He wasn't even flying and was barely using his weapons (and when he did he mostly missed). He just tried to out-brawl them and eventually went down to the Outriders' sheer numbers and their total lack of fear and inability to feel pain. Put Tony in the suit instead of Banner and he would have probably been more effective in that battle than Thor was.


2. Reach:


You said Okoye has reach advantage, which is untrue. Nuada's spear is just as long as Okoye's if not more so, and he is also taller than her. The actress who plays Okoye, Danai Gurira, is 1.70 m tall. Luke Goss, the actor who plays Nuada, is 1.85 m tall. That makes Nuada half a foot taller than Okoye. So the reach advantage is in fact Nuada's, definitely not Okoye's.


3. Armor:


Probably Okoye's biggest advantage here, but it can be countered in several ways. First of all, Nuada's magic spear might just be able to pierce it since it pierced Hellboy. Neither of us can prove whether or not it will pierce the armor, so I'll leave it alone for now. Other than that, there's the fact that Nuada can use the blund end of his spear to toss Okoye around. He can even BFR her out of the arena and into the ocean, letting her drown. Or he can just throw her off her feet, whichever works for him. Then there's the fact that some of Okoye's body is still vulnerable - her hands are unprotected, and most importantly her head and neck are unprotected as well. Nuada's precision is pretty incredible as you have seen, he is able to slice a water droplet in mid-air clean in half as it's falling:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

So putting a precision shot in Okoye's neck or head isn't that much of a challenge for him.


4. Glaive and Ayo:


You said it yourself, Ayo held Glaive off for just a few seconds. She didn't really give him a fight or a challenge of any kind, him not one-shotting her doesn't make it all that impressive. All in all, the Dora Milaje are good warriors - but not true elites, I think the Jabari are a lot more impressive (speaking of which, when Nakia called Okoye the greatest warrior in Wakanda, it was before she witnessed the might of the Jabari, and especially M'Baku who I found to be more impressive than Okoye). Okoye is definitely better than any individual Dora as is appropriate for their leader, which is nice all in itself, but that doesn't really mean a whole lot.




Summary:


Nuada is stronger and more agile than Okoye, and at least as fast. He has the strength to send Okoye flying with a single hit from the blunt end of his weapon, and his agility combined with his reach advantage will make him very hard to tag. His showing against multiple opponents is better than Okoye's as well, and you'll see some more of his skill in my next post. Okoye's biggest advantage is the armor, but Nuada's got several ways of dealing with it which I detailed above.


Anyway, that will be it for my opener. Your move again my friend ;)



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#20
Edited by
the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 13 days, 6 hours ago
- Show Bio


@anthp2000: Alright, here we go. Sorry for the long wait. Anyway...


Prince Nuada's theme song for this fight:


Loading Video...

Introducing Prince Nuada Silverlance:


No Caption Provided

"I am Prince Nuada Silverlance, Son of King Balor. And I am here, sir, to reclaim what is rightfully mine."


Nuada, Crown Prince of Bethmoora, is the son of King Balor and twin brother of Princess Nuala.


The legends say, that at the dawn of time, man, beast and all magical beings lived together in peace. But, greed and lust for power corrupted mankind, and they waged war against all the other species, seeking to rule the Earth. One day, the head of the Goblin blacksmiths, approached King Balor and offered to build him a golden army of 70 times 70 automated soldiers who know no pain or remorse and cannot be defeated. Prince Nuada urged his father to take the offer, and so the army was built, and when mankind attacked once more - they were faced with an army that they could not defeat, and died by the thousands. King Balor then decided that he wants no more bloodshed, and struck an eternal truce with mankind. But, Prince Nuada did not trust the promises of mankind, and went into exile - vowing to return when his people needed him most.


These legends happen to be true, and Prince Nuada did return - seeking the three pieces of the crown that gives its wearer control over the Golden Army, in order to bring down mankind once and for all.


Nuada has only appeared in the movie "Hellboy II: The Golden Army", and as such has a very limited number of feats, so my posts here won't be very long. That being said, what he does have is very impressive.


Stats:





Nuada's biggest advantage here is where stats are concerned. First of all, strength. I won't dwell too much on that because it's pretty straightforward. Nuada has matched strength with Hellboy:


No Caption Provided

Who matched strength with a speeding car:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

I can show you many of Hellboy's strength feats if you want. Basically, he is a multi-tonner, a bit above MCU Super-Soldier tier. Okoye's not what I'd call weak by any means, but she is not as strong as Hellboy, and in turn Nuada.


Nuada can put his strength to good use by ragdolling Okoye with strikes from the blunt end of his spear, like so:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Other than that, there's speed and agility. It will be best demonstrated when seeing his full fight-scenes, so I'll leave it to be discussed alongside skill.




Skill:





I won't lie, Okoye is very skilled. However, Nuada is more skilled. He just has better feats against better, and more numerous opponents.


Before I start showing you feats, I'll urge you to pay close attention not only to Nuada's martial skill, but also his speed and agility. They're hard to demonstrate without viewing full fight-scenes which is why I preferred discussing them here.


First of all, before moving on to the actual feats, I'd like to point out that Nuada is far more experienced than Okoye. He's lived in what the legends call "the dawn of time", an age before recorded history. That means thousands and thousands of years at least, in which Nuada trained, fought and gained experience as a warrior. As opposed to Okoye, who should be... in her early thirties? Less even?


However that's mostly just a side-note; experience is only worth anything when there are feats to back it up. Luckily, Nuada has them. First of all, here's Nuada's first scene in the movie - where you see him practicing his spearplay. No enemies here, but the ridiculous level of dexterity that he has with his weapon, his agility and his precision - slicing a water droplet in half - are all very evident in here.


Now, let's talk about how Nuada copes when facing multiple enemies. Okoye has a nice showing against Klaw's thugs, however Nuada has an even better one. As you can see, Nuada goes solo against a whole squad of King Balor's royal guards. Well, Wink (the ogre) kills 2 of them but he stays out of the main part of the fight. Anyway, Nuada kills about a dozen of them - at least 8 had him surrounded and attacked him pretty much at the same time, and he got tagged only once with a weak punch to the nose. Do note how he started the fight unarmed and took one of the guards' swords after breaking his arm with a move that even Rey Mysterio would be jealous of. Okoye's feat is good; Nuada's feat is better. And I'll say that those warriors were probably far more dangerous that Klaw's thugs: first of all, they were armed whereas Klaw's guys weren't. Second, they were royal guards - it only stands to reason that they'd be highly trained, top-quality warriors of skill worthy to protect a king. You said Klaw's guys gave Panther trouble, but I think that trying to kick him 3 or 4 times, when he's crouching and they aren't, and getting all their kicks blocked - doesn't really count as putting him on the defensive. I don't see it as a good enough indication that they were anything more than somewhat-above-average crooks. All in all, I see Nuada's feat as overall superior.


Nuada's skill has a couple more showings to discuss, but not many and I'd rather save them for my next post to give it a bit more juice. I think that'd be enough for now.




Gear:





Nuada's only gear here is his spear. You've already seen that it's retractable and can be fought as a short weapon or as a long one. However, it's a magical spear, capable of hurting Hellboy:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Also here:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

And Hellboy, of course, has enhanced durability to practically all types of damage - piercing damage included. For example, a ton of Tooth Fairies had no effect on him:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

The Tooth Fairies could strip off a man's skin and flesh in seconds:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

There was also Kroenen, who only gave Hellboy a small nick on the nose with his tonfa blades:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

For comparison, Kroenen's blades can cut through stone like butter:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Anyway, Hellboy's pretty damn resistant to damage. Nuada's spear still cut him just fine with ease. It's possible that it would also cut through Okoye's armor.




A few counters:





1. The Outriders:


You made a point about scaling Okoye off the other Dora Milaje soldiers who were able to fight Outriders. Now, I'd like to state something that you may disagree with: Outriders are extremely overrated. They caused so many problems to the Avengers and Wakanda's army because of their relative physical prowess which is above that of a human, their sheer numbers and their total disregard for both pain and for their own well-being. They were basically mindless zombies on steroids. One Outrider alone is not really a threat to any warrior with even sightly above-average level of skill, especially when that warrior has reach advantage (which the Dora had thanks to their spears). The Outriders had no skill whatsoever and were basically just huge berserkers. A Dora Milaje soldier taking Outriders one-on-one, even 2 of them in quick succession, isn't really super impressive. It's not comparable to Steve and T'challa who were fighting the Outriders many at a time like the total badasses that they obviously are. And the Outriders only gave Hulkbuster trouble because Banner could barely even walk in this thing without tripping all over himself, let alone fight effectively. He wasn't even flying and was barely using his weapons (and when he did he mostly missed). He just tried to out-brawl them and eventually went down to the Outriders' sheer numbers and their total lack of fear and inability to feel pain. Put Tony in the suit instead of Banner and he would have probably been more effective in that battle than Thor was.


2. Reach:


You said Okoye has reach advantage, which is untrue. Nuada's spear is just as long as Okoye's if not more so, and he is also taller than her. The actress who plays Okoye, Danai Gurira, is 1.70 m tall. Luke Goss, the actor who plays Nuada, is 1.85 m tall. That makes Nuada half a foot taller than Okoye. So the reach advantage is in fact Nuada's, definitely not Okoye's.


3. Armor:


Probably Okoye's biggest advantage here, but it can be countered in several ways. First of all, Nuada's magic spear might just be able to pierce it since it pierced Hellboy. Neither of us can prove whether or not it will pierce the armor, so I'll leave it alone for now. Other than that, there's the fact that Nuada can use the blund end of his spear to toss Okoye around. He can even BFR her out of the arena and into the ocean, letting her drown. Or he can just throw her off her feet, whichever works for him. Then there's the fact that some of Okoye's body is still vulnerable - her hands are unprotected, and most importantly her head and neck are unprotected as well. Nuada's precision is pretty incredible as you have seen, he is able to slice a water droplet in mid-air clean in half as it's falling:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

So putting a precision shot in Okoye's neck or head isn't that much of a challenge for him.


4. Glaive and Ayo:


You said it yourself, Ayo held Glaive off for just a few seconds. She didn't really give him a fight or a challenge of any kind, him not one-shotting her doesn't make it all that impressive. All in all, the Dora Milaje are good warriors - but not true elites, I think the Jabari are a lot more impressive (speaking of which, when Nakia called Okoye the greatest warrior in Wakanda, it was before she witnessed the might of the Jabari, and especially M'Baku who I found to be more impressive than Okoye). Okoye is definitely better than any individual Dora as is appropriate for their leader, which is nice all in itself, but that doesn't really mean a whole lot.




Summary:


Nuada is stronger and more agile than Okoye, and at least as fast. He has the strength to send Okoye flying with a single hit from the blunt end of his weapon, and his agility combined with his reach advantage will make him very hard to tag. His showing against multiple opponents is better than Okoye's as well, and you'll see some more of his skill in my next post. Okoye's biggest advantage is the armor, but Nuada's got several ways of dealing with it which I detailed above.


Anyway, that will be it for my opener. Your move again my friend ;)



Moderator





#20
Edited by
the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 13 days, 6 hours ago
- Show Bio


@anthp2000: Alright, here we go. Sorry for the long wait. Anyway...


Prince Nuada's theme song for this fight:


Loading Video...

Introducing Prince Nuada Silverlance:


No Caption Provided

"I am Prince Nuada Silverlance, Son of King Balor. And I am here, sir, to reclaim what is rightfully mine."


Nuada, Crown Prince of Bethmoora, is the son of King Balor and twin brother of Princess Nuala.


The legends say, that at the dawn of time, man, beast and all magical beings lived together in peace. But, greed and lust for power corrupted mankind, and they waged war against all the other species, seeking to rule the Earth. One day, the head of the Goblin blacksmiths, approached King Balor and offered to build him a golden army of 70 times 70 automated soldiers who know no pain or remorse and cannot be defeated. Prince Nuada urged his father to take the offer, and so the army was built, and when mankind attacked once more - they were faced with an army that they could not defeat, and died by the thousands. King Balor then decided that he wants no more bloodshed, and struck an eternal truce with mankind. But, Prince Nuada did not trust the promises of mankind, and went into exile - vowing to return when his people needed him most.


These legends happen to be true, and Prince Nuada did return - seeking the three pieces of the crown that gives its wearer control over the Golden Army, in order to bring down mankind once and for all.


Nuada has only appeared in the movie "Hellboy II: The Golden Army", and as such has a very limited number of feats, so my posts here won't be very long. That being said, what he does have is very impressive.


Stats:





Nuada's biggest advantage here is where stats are concerned. First of all, strength. I won't dwell too much on that because it's pretty straightforward. Nuada has matched strength with Hellboy:


No Caption Provided

Who matched strength with a speeding car:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

I can show you many of Hellboy's strength feats if you want. Basically, he is a multi-tonner, a bit above MCU Super-Soldier tier. Okoye's not what I'd call weak by any means, but she is not as strong as Hellboy, and in turn Nuada.


Nuada can put his strength to good use by ragdolling Okoye with strikes from the blunt end of his spear, like so:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Other than that, there's speed and agility. It will be best demonstrated when seeing his full fight-scenes, so I'll leave it to be discussed alongside skill.




Skill:





I won't lie, Okoye is very skilled. However, Nuada is more skilled. He just has better feats against better, and more numerous opponents.


Before I start showing you feats, I'll urge you to pay close attention not only to Nuada's martial skill, but also his speed and agility. They're hard to demonstrate without viewing full fight-scenes which is why I preferred discussing them here.


First of all, before moving on to the actual feats, I'd like to point out that Nuada is far more experienced than Okoye. He's lived in what the legends call "the dawn of time", an age before recorded history. That means thousands and thousands of years at least, in which Nuada trained, fought and gained experience as a warrior. As opposed to Okoye, who should be... in her early thirties? Less even?


However that's mostly just a side-note; experience is only worth anything when there are feats to back it up. Luckily, Nuada has them. First of all, here's Nuada's first scene in the movie - where you see him practicing his spearplay. No enemies here, but the ridiculous level of dexterity that he has with his weapon, his agility and his precision - slicing a water droplet in half - are all very evident in here.


Now, let's talk about how Nuada copes when facing multiple enemies. Okoye has a nice showing against Klaw's thugs, however Nuada has an even better one. As you can see, Nuada goes solo against a whole squad of King Balor's royal guards. Well, Wink (the ogre) kills 2 of them but he stays out of the main part of the fight. Anyway, Nuada kills about a dozen of them - at least 8 had him surrounded and attacked him pretty much at the same time, and he got tagged only once with a weak punch to the nose. Do note how he started the fight unarmed and took one of the guards' swords after breaking his arm with a move that even Rey Mysterio would be jealous of. Okoye's feat is good; Nuada's feat is better. And I'll say that those warriors were probably far more dangerous that Klaw's thugs: first of all, they were armed whereas Klaw's guys weren't. Second, they were royal guards - it only stands to reason that they'd be highly trained, top-quality warriors of skill worthy to protect a king. You said Klaw's guys gave Panther trouble, but I think that trying to kick him 3 or 4 times, when he's crouching and they aren't, and getting all their kicks blocked - doesn't really count as putting him on the defensive. I don't see it as a good enough indication that they were anything more than somewhat-above-average crooks. All in all, I see Nuada's feat as overall superior.


Nuada's skill has a couple more showings to discuss, but not many and I'd rather save them for my next post to give it a bit more juice. I think that'd be enough for now.




Gear:





Nuada's only gear here is his spear. You've already seen that it's retractable and can be fought as a short weapon or as a long one. However, it's a magical spear, capable of hurting Hellboy:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Also here:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

And Hellboy, of course, has enhanced durability to practically all types of damage - piercing damage included. For example, a ton of Tooth Fairies had no effect on him:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

The Tooth Fairies could strip off a man's skin and flesh in seconds:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

There was also Kroenen, who only gave Hellboy a small nick on the nose with his tonfa blades:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

For comparison, Kroenen's blades can cut through stone like butter:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Anyway, Hellboy's pretty damn resistant to damage. Nuada's spear still cut him just fine with ease. It's possible that it would also cut through Okoye's armor.




A few counters:





1. The Outriders:


You made a point about scaling Okoye off the other Dora Milaje soldiers who were able to fight Outriders. Now, I'd like to state something that you may disagree with: Outriders are extremely overrated. They caused so many problems to the Avengers and Wakanda's army because of their relative physical prowess which is above that of a human, their sheer numbers and their total disregard for both pain and for their own well-being. They were basically mindless zombies on steroids. One Outrider alone is not really a threat to any warrior with even sightly above-average level of skill, especially when that warrior has reach advantage (which the Dora had thanks to their spears). The Outriders had no skill whatsoever and were basically just huge berserkers. A Dora Milaje soldier taking Outriders one-on-one, even 2 of them in quick succession, isn't really super impressive. It's not comparable to Steve and T'challa who were fighting the Outriders many at a time like the total badasses that they obviously are. And the Outriders only gave Hulkbuster trouble because Banner could barely even walk in this thing without tripping all over himself, let alone fight effectively. He wasn't even flying and was barely using his weapons (and when he did he mostly missed). He just tried to out-brawl them and eventually went down to the Outriders' sheer numbers and their total lack of fear and inability to feel pain. Put Tony in the suit instead of Banner and he would have probably been more effective in that battle than Thor was.


2. Reach:


You said Okoye has reach advantage, which is untrue. Nuada's spear is just as long as Okoye's if not more so, and he is also taller than her. The actress who plays Okoye, Danai Gurira, is 1.70 m tall. Luke Goss, the actor who plays Nuada, is 1.85 m tall. That makes Nuada half a foot taller than Okoye. So the reach advantage is in fact Nuada's, definitely not Okoye's.


3. Armor:


Probably Okoye's biggest advantage here, but it can be countered in several ways. First of all, Nuada's magic spear might just be able to pierce it since it pierced Hellboy. Neither of us can prove whether or not it will pierce the armor, so I'll leave it alone for now. Other than that, there's the fact that Nuada can use the blund end of his spear to toss Okoye around. He can even BFR her out of the arena and into the ocean, letting her drown. Or he can just throw her off her feet, whichever works for him. Then there's the fact that some of Okoye's body is still vulnerable - her hands are unprotected, and most importantly her head and neck are unprotected as well. Nuada's precision is pretty incredible as you have seen, he is able to slice a water droplet in mid-air clean in half as it's falling:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

So putting a precision shot in Okoye's neck or head isn't that much of a challenge for him.


4. Glaive and Ayo:


You said it yourself, Ayo held Glaive off for just a few seconds. She didn't really give him a fight or a challenge of any kind, him not one-shotting her doesn't make it all that impressive. All in all, the Dora Milaje are good warriors - but not true elites, I think the Jabari are a lot more impressive (speaking of which, when Nakia called Okoye the greatest warrior in Wakanda, it was before she witnessed the might of the Jabari, and especially M'Baku who I found to be more impressive than Okoye). Okoye is definitely better than any individual Dora as is appropriate for their leader, which is nice all in itself, but that doesn't really mean a whole lot.




Summary:


Nuada is stronger and more agile than Okoye, and at least as fast. He has the strength to send Okoye flying with a single hit from the blunt end of his weapon, and his agility combined with his reach advantage will make him very hard to tag. His showing against multiple opponents is better than Okoye's as well, and you'll see some more of his skill in my next post. Okoye's biggest advantage is the armor, but Nuada's got several ways of dealing with it which I detailed above.


Anyway, that will be it for my opener. Your move again my friend ;)



Moderator




#20
Edited by
the_red_viper
(12476 posts)
- 13 days, 6 hours ago
- Show Bio




@anthp2000: Alright, here we go. Sorry for the long wait. Anyway...


Prince Nuada's theme song for this fight:


Loading Video...

Introducing Prince Nuada Silverlance:


No Caption Provided

"I am Prince Nuada Silverlance, Son of King Balor. And I am here, sir, to reclaim what is rightfully mine."


Nuada, Crown Prince of Bethmoora, is the son of King Balor and twin brother of Princess Nuala.


The legends say, that at the dawn of time, man, beast and all magical beings lived together in peace. But, greed and lust for power corrupted mankind, and they waged war against all the other species, seeking to rule the Earth. One day, the head of the Goblin blacksmiths, approached King Balor and offered to build him a golden army of 70 times 70 automated soldiers who know no pain or remorse and cannot be defeated. Prince Nuada urged his father to take the offer, and so the army was built, and when mankind attacked once more - they were faced with an army that they could not defeat, and died by the thousands. King Balor then decided that he wants no more bloodshed, and struck an eternal truce with mankind. But, Prince Nuada did not trust the promises of mankind, and went into exile - vowing to return when his people needed him most.


These legends happen to be true, and Prince Nuada did return - seeking the three pieces of the crown that gives its wearer control over the Golden Army, in order to bring down mankind once and for all.


Nuada has only appeared in the movie "Hellboy II: The Golden Army", and as such has a very limited number of feats, so my posts here won't be very long. That being said, what he does have is very impressive.


Stats:





Nuada's biggest advantage here is where stats are concerned. First of all, strength. I won't dwell too much on that because it's pretty straightforward. Nuada has matched strength with Hellboy:


No Caption Provided

Who matched strength with a speeding car:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

I can show you many of Hellboy's strength feats if you want. Basically, he is a multi-tonner, a bit above MCU Super-Soldier tier. Okoye's not what I'd call weak by any means, but she is not as strong as Hellboy, and in turn Nuada.


Nuada can put his strength to good use by ragdolling Okoye with strikes from the blunt end of his spear, like so:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Other than that, there's speed and agility. It will be best demonstrated when seeing his full fight-scenes, so I'll leave it to be discussed alongside skill.




Skill:





I won't lie, Okoye is very skilled. However, Nuada is more skilled. He just has better feats against better, and more numerous opponents.


Before I start showing you feats, I'll urge you to pay close attention not only to Nuada's martial skill, but also his speed and agility. They're hard to demonstrate without viewing full fight-scenes which is why I preferred discussing them here.


First of all, before moving on to the actual feats, I'd like to point out that Nuada is far more experienced than Okoye. He's lived in what the legends call "the dawn of time", an age before recorded history. That means thousands and thousands of years at least, in which Nuada trained, fought and gained experience as a warrior. As opposed to Okoye, who should be... in her early thirties? Less even?


However that's mostly just a side-note; experience is only worth anything when there are feats to back it up. Luckily, Nuada has them. First of all, here's Nuada's first scene in the movie - where you see him practicing his spearplay. No enemies here, but the ridiculous level of dexterity that he has with his weapon, his agility and his precision - slicing a water droplet in half - are all very evident in here.


Now, let's talk about how Nuada copes when facing multiple enemies. Okoye has a nice showing against Klaw's thugs, however Nuada has an even better one. As you can see, Nuada goes solo against a whole squad of King Balor's royal guards. Well, Wink (the ogre) kills 2 of them but he stays out of the main part of the fight. Anyway, Nuada kills about a dozen of them - at least 8 had him surrounded and attacked him pretty much at the same time, and he got tagged only once with a weak punch to the nose. Do note how he started the fight unarmed and took one of the guards' swords after breaking his arm with a move that even Rey Mysterio would be jealous of. Okoye's feat is good; Nuada's feat is better. And I'll say that those warriors were probably far more dangerous that Klaw's thugs: first of all, they were armed whereas Klaw's guys weren't. Second, they were royal guards - it only stands to reason that they'd be highly trained, top-quality warriors of skill worthy to protect a king. You said Klaw's guys gave Panther trouble, but I think that trying to kick him 3 or 4 times, when he's crouching and they aren't, and getting all their kicks blocked - doesn't really count as putting him on the defensive. I don't see it as a good enough indication that they were anything more than somewhat-above-average crooks. All in all, I see Nuada's feat as overall superior.


Nuada's skill has a couple more showings to discuss, but not many and I'd rather save them for my next post to give it a bit more juice. I think that'd be enough for now.




Gear:





Nuada's only gear here is his spear. You've already seen that it's retractable and can be fought as a short weapon or as a long one. However, it's a magical spear, capable of hurting Hellboy:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Also here:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

And Hellboy, of course, has enhanced durability to practically all types of damage - piercing damage included. For example, a ton of Tooth Fairies had no effect on him:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

The Tooth Fairies could strip off a man's skin and flesh in seconds:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

There was also Kroenen, who only gave Hellboy a small nick on the nose with his tonfa blades:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

For comparison, Kroenen's blades can cut through stone like butter:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Anyway, Hellboy's pretty damn resistant to damage. Nuada's spear still cut him just fine with ease. It's possible that it would also cut through Okoye's armor.




A few counters:





1. The Outriders:


You made a point about scaling Okoye off the other Dora Milaje soldiers who were able to fight Outriders. Now, I'd like to state something that you may disagree with: Outriders are extremely overrated. They caused so many problems to the Avengers and Wakanda's army because of their relative physical prowess which is above that of a human, their sheer numbers and their total disregard for both pain and for their own well-being. They were basically mindless zombies on steroids. One Outrider alone is not really a threat to any warrior with even sightly above-average level of skill, especially when that warrior has reach advantage (which the Dora had thanks to their spears). The Outriders had no skill whatsoever and were basically just huge berserkers. A Dora Milaje soldier taking Outriders one-on-one, even 2 of them in quick succession, isn't really super impressive. It's not comparable to Steve and T'challa who were fighting the Outriders many at a time like the total badasses that they obviously are. And the Outriders only gave Hulkbuster trouble because Banner could barely even walk in this thing without tripping all over himself, let alone fight effectively. He wasn't even flying and was barely using his weapons (and when he did he mostly missed). He just tried to out-brawl them and eventually went down to the Outriders' sheer numbers and their total lack of fear and inability to feel pain. Put Tony in the suit instead of Banner and he would have probably been more effective in that battle than Thor was.


2. Reach:


You said Okoye has reach advantage, which is untrue. Nuada's spear is just as long as Okoye's if not more so, and he is also taller than her. The actress who plays Okoye, Danai Gurira, is 1.70 m tall. Luke Goss, the actor who plays Nuada, is 1.85 m tall. That makes Nuada half a foot taller than Okoye. So the reach advantage is in fact Nuada's, definitely not Okoye's.


3. Armor:


Probably Okoye's biggest advantage here, but it can be countered in several ways. First of all, Nuada's magic spear might just be able to pierce it since it pierced Hellboy. Neither of us can prove whether or not it will pierce the armor, so I'll leave it alone for now. Other than that, there's the fact that Nuada can use the blund end of his spear to toss Okoye around. He can even BFR her out of the arena and into the ocean, letting her drown. Or he can just throw her off her feet, whichever works for him. Then there's the fact that some of Okoye's body is still vulnerable - her hands are unprotected, and most importantly her head and neck are unprotected as well. Nuada's precision is pretty incredible as you have seen, he is able to slice a water droplet in mid-air clean in half as it's falling:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

So putting a precision shot in Okoye's neck or head isn't that much of a challenge for him.


4. Glaive and Ayo:


You said it yourself, Ayo held Glaive off for just a few seconds. She didn't really give him a fight or a challenge of any kind, him not one-shotting her doesn't make it all that impressive. All in all, the Dora Milaje are good warriors - but not true elites, I think the Jabari are a lot more impressive (speaking of which, when Nakia called Okoye the greatest warrior in Wakanda, it was before she witnessed the might of the Jabari, and especially M'Baku who I found to be more impressive than Okoye). Okoye is definitely better than any individual Dora as is appropriate for their leader, which is nice all in itself, but that doesn't really mean a whole lot.




Summary:


Nuada is stronger and more agile than Okoye, and at least as fast. He has the strength to send Okoye flying with a single hit from the blunt end of his weapon, and his agility combined with his reach advantage will make him very hard to tag. His showing against multiple opponents is better than Okoye's as well, and you'll see some more of his skill in my next post. Okoye's biggest advantage is the armor, but Nuada's got several ways of dealing with it which I detailed above.


Anyway, that will be it for my opener. Your move again my friend ;)



Loading Video...


Loading Video...





Nuada's biggest advantage here is where stats are concerned. First of all, strength. I won't dwell too much on that because it's pretty straightforward. Nuada has matched strength with Hellboy:


No Caption Provided

Who matched strength with a speeding car:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

I can show you many of Hellboy's strength feats if you want. Basically, he is a multi-tonner, a bit above MCU Super-Soldier tier. Okoye's not what I'd call weak by any means, but she is not as strong as Hellboy, and in turn Nuada.


Nuada can put his strength to good use by ragdolling Okoye with strikes from the blunt end of his spear, like so:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Other than that, there's speed and agility. It will be best demonstrated when seeing his full fight-scenes, so I'll leave it to be discussed alongside skill.








Nuada's biggest advantage here is where stats are concerned. First of all, strength. I won't dwell too much on that because it's pretty straightforward. Nuada has matched strength with Hellboy:


No Caption Provided

Who matched strength with a speeding car:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

I can show you many of Hellboy's strength feats if you want. Basically, he is a multi-tonner, a bit above MCU Super-Soldier tier. Okoye's not what I'd call weak by any means, but she is not as strong as Hellboy, and in turn Nuada.


Nuada can put his strength to good use by ragdolling Okoye with strikes from the blunt end of his spear, like so:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Other than that, there's speed and agility. It will be best demonstrated when seeing his full fight-scenes, so I'll leave it to be discussed alongside skill.







I won't lie, Okoye is very skilled. However, Nuada is more skilled. He just has better feats against better, and more numerous opponents.


Before I start showing you feats, I'll urge you to pay close attention not only to Nuada's martial skill, but also his speed and agility. They're hard to demonstrate without viewing full fight-scenes which is why I preferred discussing them here.


First of all, before moving on to the actual feats, I'd like to point out that Nuada is far more experienced than Okoye. He's lived in what the legends call "the dawn of time", an age before recorded history. That means thousands and thousands of years at least, in which Nuada trained, fought and gained experience as a warrior. As opposed to Okoye, who should be... in her early thirties? Less even?


However that's mostly just a side-note; experience is only worth anything when there are feats to back it up. Luckily, Nuada has them. First of all, here's Nuada's first scene in the movie - where you see him practicing his spearplay. No enemies here, but the ridiculous level of dexterity that he has with his weapon, his agility and his precision - slicing a water droplet in half - are all very evident in here.


Now, let's talk about how Nuada copes when facing multiple enemies. Okoye has a nice showing against Klaw's thugs, however Nuada has an even better one. As you can see, Nuada goes solo against a whole squad of King Balor's royal guards. Well, Wink (the ogre) kills 2 of them but he stays out of the main part of the fight. Anyway, Nuada kills about a dozen of them - at least 8 had him surrounded and attacked him pretty much at the same time, and he got tagged only once with a weak punch to the nose. Do note how he started the fight unarmed and took one of the guards' swords after breaking his arm with a move that even Rey Mysterio would be jealous of. Okoye's feat is good; Nuada's feat is better. And I'll say that those warriors were probably far more dangerous that Klaw's thugs: first of all, they were armed whereas Klaw's guys weren't. Second, they were royal guards - it only stands to reason that they'd be highly trained, top-quality warriors of skill worthy to protect a king. You said Klaw's guys gave Panther trouble, but I think that trying to kick him 3 or 4 times, when he's crouching and they aren't, and getting all their kicks blocked - doesn't really count as putting him on the defensive. I don't see it as a good enough indication that they were anything more than somewhat-above-average crooks. All in all, I see Nuada's feat as overall superior.


Nuada's skill has a couple more showings to discuss, but not many and I'd rather save them for my next post to give it a bit more juice. I think that'd be enough for now.








I won't lie, Okoye is very skilled. However, Nuada is more skilled. He just has better feats against better, and more numerous opponents.


Before I start showing you feats, I'll urge you to pay close attention not only to Nuada's martial skill, but also his speed and agility. They're hard to demonstrate without viewing full fight-scenes which is why I preferred discussing them here.


First of all, before moving on to the actual feats, I'd like to point out that Nuada is far more experienced than Okoye. He's lived in what the legends call "the dawn of time", an age before recorded history. That means thousands and thousands of years at least, in which Nuada trained, fought and gained experience as a warrior. As opposed to Okoye, who should be... in her early thirties? Less even?


However that's mostly just a side-note; experience is only worth anything when there are feats to back it up. Luckily, Nuada has them. First of all, here's Nuada's first scene in the movie - where you see him practicing his spearplay. No enemies here, but the ridiculous level of dexterity that he has with his weapon, his agility and his precision - slicing a water droplet in half - are all very evident in here.


Now, let's talk about how Nuada copes when facing multiple enemies. Okoye has a nice showing against Klaw's thugs, however Nuada has an even better one. As you can see, Nuada goes solo against a whole squad of King Balor's royal guards. Well, Wink (the ogre) kills 2 of them but he stays out of the main part of the fight. Anyway, Nuada kills about a dozen of them - at least 8 had him surrounded and attacked him pretty much at the same time, and he got tagged only once with a weak punch to the nose. Do note how he started the fight unarmed and took one of the guards' swords after breaking his arm with a move that even Rey Mysterio would be jealous of. Okoye's feat is good; Nuada's feat is better. And I'll say that those warriors were probably far more dangerous that Klaw's thugs: first of all, they were armed whereas Klaw's guys weren't. Second, they were royal guards - it only stands to reason that they'd be highly trained, top-quality warriors of skill worthy to protect a king. You said Klaw's guys gave Panther trouble, but I think that trying to kick him 3 or 4 times, when he's crouching and they aren't, and getting all their kicks blocked - doesn't really count as putting him on the defensive. I don't see it as a good enough indication that they were anything more than somewhat-above-average crooks. All in all, I see Nuada's feat as overall superior.


Nuada's skill has a couple more showings to discuss, but not many and I'd rather save them for my next post to give it a bit more juice. I think that'd be enough for now.







Nuada's only gear here is his spear. You've already seen that it's retractable and can be fought as a short weapon or as a long one. However, it's a magical spear, capable of hurting Hellboy:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Also here:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

And Hellboy, of course, has enhanced durability to practically all types of damage - piercing damage included. For example, a ton of Tooth Fairies had no effect on him:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

The Tooth Fairies could strip off a man's skin and flesh in seconds:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

There was also Kroenen, who only gave Hellboy a small nick on the nose with his tonfa blades:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

For comparison, Kroenen's blades can cut through stone like butter:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Anyway, Hellboy's pretty damn resistant to damage. Nuada's spear still cut him just fine with ease. It's possible that it would also cut through Okoye's armor.








Nuada's only gear here is his spear. You've already seen that it's retractable and can be fought as a short weapon or as a long one. However, it's a magical spear, capable of hurting Hellboy:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Also here:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

And Hellboy, of course, has enhanced durability to practically all types of damage - piercing damage included. For example, a ton of Tooth Fairies had no effect on him:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

The Tooth Fairies could strip off a man's skin and flesh in seconds:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

There was also Kroenen, who only gave Hellboy a small nick on the nose with his tonfa blades:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

For comparison, Kroenen's blades can cut through stone like butter:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

Anyway, Hellboy's pretty damn resistant to damage. Nuada's spear still cut him just fine with ease. It's possible that it would also cut through Okoye's armor.







1. The Outriders:


You made a point about scaling Okoye off the other Dora Milaje soldiers who were able to fight Outriders. Now, I'd like to state something that you may disagree with: Outriders are extremely overrated. They caused so many problems to the Avengers and Wakanda's army because of their relative physical prowess which is above that of a human, their sheer numbers and their total disregard for both pain and for their own well-being. They were basically mindless zombies on steroids. One Outrider alone is not really a threat to any warrior with even sightly above-average level of skill, especially when that warrior has reach advantage (which the Dora had thanks to their spears). The Outriders had no skill whatsoever and were basically just huge berserkers. A Dora Milaje soldier taking Outriders one-on-one, even 2 of them in quick succession, isn't really super impressive. It's not comparable to Steve and T'challa who were fighting the Outriders many at a time like the total badasses that they obviously are. And the Outriders only gave Hulkbuster trouble because Banner could barely even walk in this thing without tripping all over himself, let alone fight effectively. He wasn't even flying and was barely using his weapons (and when he did he mostly missed). He just tried to out-brawl them and eventually went down to the Outriders' sheer numbers and their total lack of fear and inability to feel pain. Put Tony in the suit instead of Banner and he would have probably been more effective in that battle than Thor was.


2. Reach:


You said Okoye has reach advantage, which is untrue. Nuada's spear is just as long as Okoye's if not more so, and he is also taller than her. The actress who plays Okoye, Danai Gurira, is 1.70 m tall. Luke Goss, the actor who plays Nuada, is 1.85 m tall. That makes Nuada half a foot taller than Okoye. So the reach advantage is in fact Nuada's, definitely not Okoye's.


3. Armor:


Probably Okoye's biggest advantage here, but it can be countered in several ways. First of all, Nuada's magic spear might just be able to pierce it since it pierced Hellboy. Neither of us can prove whether or not it will pierce the armor, so I'll leave it alone for now. Other than that, there's the fact that Nuada can use the blund end of his spear to toss Okoye around. He can even BFR her out of the arena and into the ocean, letting her drown. Or he can just throw her off her feet, whichever works for him. Then there's the fact that some of Okoye's body is still vulnerable - her hands are unprotected, and most importantly her head and neck are unprotected as well. Nuada's precision is pretty incredible as you have seen, he is able to slice a water droplet in mid-air clean in half as it's falling:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

So putting a precision shot in Okoye's neck or head isn't that much of a challenge for him.


4. Glaive and Ayo:


You said it yourself, Ayo held Glaive off for just a few seconds. She didn't really give him a fight or a challenge of any kind, him not one-shotting her doesn't make it all that impressive. All in all, the Dora Milaje are good warriors - but not true elites, I think the Jabari are a lot more impressive (speaking of which, when Nakia called Okoye the greatest warrior in Wakanda, it was before she witnessed the might of the Jabari, and especially M'Baku who I found to be more impressive than Okoye). Okoye is definitely better than any individual Dora as is appropriate for their leader, which is nice all in itself, but that doesn't really mean a whole lot.








1. The Outriders:


You made a point about scaling Okoye off the other Dora Milaje soldiers who were able to fight Outriders. Now, I'd like to state something that you may disagree with: Outriders are extremely overrated. They caused so many problems to the Avengers and Wakanda's army because of their relative physical prowess which is above that of a human, their sheer numbers and their total disregard for both pain and for their own well-being. They were basically mindless zombies on steroids. One Outrider alone is not really a threat to any warrior with even sightly above-average level of skill, especially when that warrior has reach advantage (which the Dora had thanks to their spears). The Outriders had no skill whatsoever and were basically just huge berserkers. A Dora Milaje soldier taking Outriders one-on-one, even 2 of them in quick succession, isn't really super impressive. It's not comparable to Steve and T'challa who were fighting the Outriders many at a time like the total badasses that they obviously are. And the Outriders only gave Hulkbuster trouble because Banner could barely even walk in this thing without tripping all over himself, let alone fight effectively. He wasn't even flying and was barely using his weapons (and when he did he mostly missed). He just tried to out-brawl them and eventually went down to the Outriders' sheer numbers and their total lack of fear and inability to feel pain. Put Tony in the suit instead of Banner and he would have probably been more effective in that battle than Thor was.


2. Reach:


You said Okoye has reach advantage, which is untrue. Nuada's spear is just as long as Okoye's if not more so, and he is also taller than her. The actress who plays Okoye, Danai Gurira, is 1.70 m tall. Luke Goss, the actor who plays Nuada, is 1.85 m tall. That makes Nuada half a foot taller than Okoye. So the reach advantage is in fact Nuada's, definitely not Okoye's.


3. Armor:


Probably Okoye's biggest advantage here, but it can be countered in several ways. First of all, Nuada's magic spear might just be able to pierce it since it pierced Hellboy. Neither of us can prove whether or not it will pierce the armor, so I'll leave it alone for now. Other than that, there's the fact that Nuada can use the blund end of his spear to toss Okoye around. He can even BFR her out of the arena and into the ocean, letting her drown. Or he can just throw her off her feet, whichever works for him. Then there's the fact that some of Okoye's body is still vulnerable - her hands are unprotected, and most importantly her head and neck are unprotected as well. Nuada's precision is pretty incredible as you have seen, he is able to slice a water droplet in mid-air clean in half as it's falling:


No Caption ProvidedNo Caption Provided

So putting a precision shot in Okoye's neck or head isn't that much of a challenge for him.


4. Glaive and Ayo:


You said it yourself, Ayo held Glaive off for just a few seconds. She didn't really give him a fight or a challenge of any kind, him not one-shotting her doesn't make it all that impressive. All in all, the Dora Milaje are good warriors - but not true elites, I think the Jabari are a lot more impressive (speaking of which, when Nakia called Okoye the greatest warrior in Wakanda, it was before she witnessed the might of the Jabari, and especially M'Baku who I found to be more impressive than Okoye). Okoye is definitely better than any individual Dora as is appropriate for their leader, which is nice all in itself, but that doesn't really mean a whole lot.






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#21
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@riddlerfan77:



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#21
Posted by

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@riddlerfan77:



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#21
Posted by

the_red_viper
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@riddlerfan77:



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#21
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@riddlerfan77:





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#22
Posted by

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T4V








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#22
Posted by

Kevd4wg
(8354 posts)
- 13 days, 6 hours ago
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T4V








#22
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Kevd4wg
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T4V







#22
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Kevd4wg
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T4V









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#23
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T4V please








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#23
Posted by

JSDoctor
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T4V please








#23
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T4V please







#23
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T4V please









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#24
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@the_red_viper: Nice opener.








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#24
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@the_red_viper: Nice opener.








#24
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@the_red_viper: Nice opener.







#24
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@the_red_viper: Nice opener.









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#25
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@riddlerfan77: Thank you.



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#25
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@riddlerfan77: Thank you.



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#25
Posted by

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@riddlerfan77: Thank you.



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#25
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@riddlerfan77: Thank you.





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