@noobsnowman: I've never seen a more hypocritical comment in my life. I'm trying to have a debate with Revenant, and you just come in here and insult me for no reason at all. How does that make you look? Hmm? I think you're the one here who needs to "better yourself as a person" if you enjoy insulting people on the forums for no reason at all.

@necromancer76: I don't think you are really having a debate with Revanant when all you said is:

I have no idea what post you responded to, but judging by your disrespect and insolence towards me, I'm disinclined to start a debate with you.

Disrespect and insolence? Earn your respect through actually compelling arguments, and it will be given accordingly. You literally demanded respect out of thin air. You even went on a pointless crusade on people who voted against Revan in this matchup, me included. Based on the evidence presented, I'm not sure whether respect should be 'given' to you.

Also, you're obviously thin skinned, you are 'disinclined' to start a debate with him then proceeded to debate him anyways.

Ah, the formidable Vodo, who has many lightsaber feats that would already place him above Revan... oh wait. He's featless. Malak is probably above him.

This shows how ignorant you are of the character. One, Vodo isn't featless. Two, you didn't explain how and why his feats (that you didn't even explain in the first place) pale compared to Revan's, and asserted your claim off conjecture. Supply some meat in your bones, and there will be some proper discussion.

So far I'm not convinced.

Who the hell cares whether you are convinced or not. What's in it for Revenant if his objective is to convince you? He can present a plethora of compelling arguments and still fail to convince you because you grasp straws. Do you really think the point of debating is to convince the opposing party? Give me a break.

I've never seen a more hypocritical comment in my life.

Talk to me about hypocrisy when on another Revan thread you wrote this:

Lol lol lol. Starkiller gets wrecked. I'm honestly laughing at the fact that someone things Revan would lose to him in Force power. Ha.

So it's fine for you to laugh at other people's opinions but when someone points out a flaw in your argument you take it as a personal insult. Fascinating.

if you enjoy insulting people on the forums for no reason at all.

Point out where in 'no one cares whether you are convinced' and 'respect is earned, not given' a insult. Oh wait, there's none - the first is the basic aspect of debating and the second is an aspect of life. Then again, considering that you took the line "This isn't true and never has been, stop quoting Ant like he's the gospel." personally, I'm not surprised.

@noobsnowman: Ummm... no. First of all, you've literally used parts of post 96, which was a debate post. So you can't lie and say I've only posted that first part. I used that because out of nowhere he insults me because I defend a character. And yet I'm the one who's wrong here. Ok.

I demanded "respect out of thin air" because he INSULTED ME OUT OF THIN AIR. If that's ok where you come from, wherever that is in the world, then only do it in that part of the world. I'd imagine people don't like to be insulted where you come from...

Vodo has quotes about his skill. Nothing more. His only "feat" is facing Kun. You seem to misinterpret the meaning of "feat. That's not my fault.

Why should I have to explain when I don't need to? I'd gladly debate Force power only, but when there already is an in-depth discussion comparing their lightsaber skill, why would I not use such a resource? If somebody countered it, then I would stop using it. But it hasn't been countered, so I'm going to use it. Sorry if that bothers you.

Yes, that's exactly the point of the debate lol lol lol. What's the "real" point of debating then? To "please" the other users more? Ha.

That's not an insult. At all. I laughed at his opinion. People laugh at my opinion all the time. I don't care. Revenant tried to make me look like I'm some mindless user who treats Ant like a god, and then you proceeded to tell me I don't deserve respect because I got insulted and tried to defend myself. Neither of those things are part of my "argument." Those were direct insults towards me. I don't know where the hell this kind of behavior is ok, but it's not appreciated here.

"If you don't deserve any respect in the first place, don't try calling out for disrespect or insolence until you get your own shit fixed." That's not an insult to you? Ok then. How about you go around and say that to, I don't know, 25 users, and ask them how they feel about that quote.

@sithrevenant: Feats for Arca Jeth or Thon that makes Vodo look so good? And reminder that Kun wasn't winning against Vodo until he pulled out his saberstaff, a weapon that was completely new in the time period, so no one knew how to counter it. However, during the events of KOTOR, multiple Jedi and Sith are seen using such a weapon, so over time, Jedi and Sith were able to adapt to the style. Revan was also a master of the style.

Revan learned from multiple masters. I'd say their combined knowledge on dueling was greater than one person who lived before them.

Wielding the wooden staff is cool and all, but it didn't give him any advantage over Kun. It just showed how knowledgable he was in dueling. Those are very different.

[This is all taken from the Darth Malak respect thread:

[Darth Malak may have been far more powerful than Exar Kun or Freedon Nadd.

"An imposing figure with ghostly pale features, prominent Sith tattoos, a gleaming red lightsaber, and devastating Dark Side power, Malak struck terror into the hearts of his former allies. He also wore a vocal mask that may have concealed a form of cybernetic life-support. Did it provide him with powers far greater than even Exar Kun or Freedon Nadd, or was cybernetic enhancement too simple an explanation?"

―Wizards of the Coast: Darth Malak

Darth Malak was said to be a superior duelist to Revan- a master combatant who slaughtered armies in combat, and it's implied Malak's combat skills are superior to his own prodigious Force abilities.

"For me, Malak was always the 'brawn' to Revan's 'brain' - he was renowned for his combat abilities, and I always felt that he was even better than Revan with a lightsaber. I also felt that he wasn't as strong at using the Force in other ways as Revan was."

―Drew Karpyshyn (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan Author)

Darth Malak was able to press Darth Revan into desperation before ultimately succumbing. Darth Revan was a master of many forms of lightsaber combat, and is said by many to be the greatest warrior in the Republic's history. It was also stated he could defeat the combined might of Darth Traya and the Jedi Exile.

"Malak's most distinguishing feature, his steel jaw, disguises a vicious lightsaber wound inflicted by his former Master in their desperate final battle."

―Star Wars Insider 88: Virtual Sith

Darth Malak was able to press Revan into a brutal battle before ultimately succumbing on the Star Forge.

"...that [Star Forge] battle would have been a brutal, hard fought affair spread over multiple pages."

―Drew Karpyshyn (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan Author)

"Revan then confronted Darth Malak himself in a fierce duel, but Revan prevailed and finally defeated Darth Malak."

―Star Wars: The Old Republic Encyclopedia

"It is a period of uncertainty across the galaxy. After a long and vicious battle in the deepest area of the Star Forge, Dark Lord of the Sith Darth Revan succeeds in destroying his ex-apprentice Darth Malak. After recovering from the duel, Revan seeks out the secret dark outposts... "

―Star Wars: Chronicles of the Old Republic

Darth Malak casually defeated and incapacitated Revan as of his capture on the Leviathan, who was still the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy with impressive combat showings. Darth Malak would even be capable of easily defeating the combined force of Revan, Bastila Shan, and Carth Onasi according to many.

"But not even the three of you together can stand against my power!"

―Darth Malak (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic)

"The power of the Dark Lord is strong enough to destroy any of us... even you. It would be suicide to face Malak here."

―Bastila Shan (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic)

"We ran into Malak. He would have killed us, but Bastila sacrificed herself so we could get away."

―Carth Onasi (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic)

"Malak will destroy you, but if you throw down your weapons now, I will ask my Master to be merciful."

―Saul Karath (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic)

Darth Malak defeated Bastila Shan, a very powerful Jedi Knight, in a matter of seconds. The game's mission logs show us that she was captured by Darth Malak by the time Revanand Carth Onasi stopped planning their escape, which was under twenty seconds. They fought for a mere six seconds before that.

"Bastila could be thought of as a second-tier Jedi. She's clearly not as capable as characters such as Mace Windu, Jedi Master; Yoda, Jedi Master; or Darth Vader, Jedi Hunter; but she's roughly on par with Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi Master or Darth Tyranus."

―Wizards of the Coast: Champions of the Force Preview 6

"Bastila doesn't stand a chance against Malak."

―Carth Onasi (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic)

"No Bastila, he is too strong! NO!"

―Carth Onasi (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic)

No Caption Provided

Malak was one of the most skilled and powerful warriors in the Jedi Order during the "prime of the Jedi," Mandalorian Wars, being renowned even as a young man for his prowess with a lightsaber in battle.

"Foremost among the heroes of this era were the Jedi warriors Malak and Revan... Though only a young man, his skill in battle and prowess with the lightsaber had already earned him renown within the Order. Given his abilities, and his arrogance, it was only natural that he should ignore the warnings of his Master and join the Republic fleet in its battle against the Mandalorian raiders on the Outer Rim."

―Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic Prima Guide

"Four millennia before the man called Palpatine became Emperor, Malak shone brightly as one of the greatest Jedi heroes. "

―Wizards of the Coast: Darth Malak

"Our heroes had become brutal, conquering Sith, and we were all helpless before them. Think about it, if you can't even trust the best of the Jedi, who can you trust?'

―Carth Onasi (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic)

"Malak gained a reputation as a headstrong warrior who would recklessly charge into danger. Malak's former Masters were well aware of this impetuousness during his days at the training academy on Dantooine."

―Star Wars Databanks: Darth Malak]

I don't think that's featless.]

And all of the duelists of Kun's time were infants compared to Revan. However, there are quotes stating that the KOTOR time was the "prime of the Jedi": https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/darthant66/blog/knights-of-the-old-republic-era-is-the-prime-of-th/95277/

Seeing as how Darth Revan massacred armies of these Jedi who are factually more powerful than the Jedi of Kun's age, I'd say that gives Revan the edge here.

I didn't mean battle precog. I meant Trakata. Ant went over the technique and how it counters Kun in the CaV I posted. If you are confused on something, I'll be happy to elaborate.

It's true that Revan has no scaling at this point because it's too early in his "career," but Muur has 0 dueling feats and Krayt still lost to Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan has been factually compared to Bastilla, and Malak beat her in under 20 seconds, and Revan beat Malak.

Wow, I'm very off topic. Sorry guys.

damn, necro roasting noob, didn't see that coming

I've made a new thread so as to not derail the current one any further:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/revan-kotor-vs-exar-kun-1886718/#2

Revan is above than siblings. Although, he can't defeat both Arcann and Vaylin.

The Duo barely scrape a victory. 6/10

Vaylin and Arcann both have statements declaring them the toughest fights the Outlander has had thus far, which would include Revan. Given that, Revan loses pretty convincingly.

@sithrevenant:

Eh?, that doesn't imply superiority, it only would in a single confrontation, which the fights with Revan were most certainly not.

It depends on the context of the situation.

The problem is that Outlander never fought Revan 1v1 as he did with the siblings. When player/Outlander fights Revan he basically has help from dozen of allies from which several are the strongest force users in the Galaxy at the time.

Going with Revan.

Arcann and vaylin take this. Revan is around unchained Vaylin level, if you add Arcann he looses.

Morals off? Revan dies.

Revan is second most powerful force wielder in galaxy loses only to the Emperor and yet not far behind almost on the same level with him. Team has no chance.

Then and now revan.

@greysentinel365 said: