. Red Lotus is bloodlusted

. Blue Diamond is bloodlusted

. Fight takes place at Beach City

. Who wins?

Well, Blue's best asset (and her best feat) is an in-verse power that isn't applicable to other verses, but she should be at least a building buster.

@drpepperman: she was also pretty dang durable, and I'm pretty sure her energy rain was breaking Stevens big shield. So she's definetly at least building level. I think her gempathy is also her best asset, but not her best feat.

Blue takes it. I'm not sure why her Pathokinesis/Empathy wouldn't work. We see, when she actually tries, she can make humans fall as well(Connie, for example).

Blue diamond should be vastly stronger and more durable. Probably faster by a good margin as well.

Blue

Blue Diamond should take this handily. The only thing team has in favor of them is numbers, which could mean little if Blue actually tries.

Blue. Her empathy power worked on humans, which no one on the Avatar team has any defense against. She was also physically superior to Garnet, who has pretty insane strength feats.

@cpt_nice: actually that power works on gems only

She is more than Building Durabity Level... I mean, Garnet barely broke her hold, and Garnet can casually make mountains shake...

Actually you are wrong

Connie is clearly affected.

From inside a mountain. At this point, when Garnet needed to fuse to shift building sized pillars among other things, it should be considered an outlier by all means. She nor the others have any other mountain level feats except in the comics.

Except this episode was filled with multiple animation and plot errors. If it was explicitly shown as something at one point and then hinted more subtly another, I think the more explicit showing should be the thing considered, since it's a kids show that wasn't focusing on the details of a 2 second scene too much. Lapis Lazuli literally disappears from the action for several seconds.

@cor_tsar:

Conjecture. A showing is a feat unless clearly dispelled by actual evidence of the contrary, such a Sugar stating "Oh that was an error, she wasn't supposed to be affected". The animation clearly shows Connie being affected when Blue got serious, so that is a clear feat until proven otherwise.

Blue Diamond

@cpt_nice: yeah the contradiction is when like 5 minutes before that she wasn't affected at all. Blues empathy is active even without the blue wave. There's no reason to think she put more or less energy into one blue wave than the other or that one was so much stronger than the other that a person who was completely unaffected at one time was affected another time.

@cor_tsar:

yeah the contradiction is when like 5 minutes before that she wasn't affected at all.

Her second attack is clearly more potent than her first.

Blues empathy is active even without the blue wave.

That's true, but it never before brought gems to their knees, incapable/barely capable of moving. It is clear she has a large degree of control over her aura.

There's no reason to think she put more or less energy into one blue wave than the other or that one was so much stronger than the other that a person who was completely unaffected at one time was affected another time.

Why exactly? Her powers can definitely be stronger or weaker, depending on how consciously she projects her aura. During the "what's the use of feeling blue" scene, Steven was crying a tiny bit, the pearls and Yellow weren't crying at all, despite being in closer proximity. In Legs From Homeworld, the crystal gems were all crying a bit but didn't fall to their knees like during the battle, Connie was unaffected and Yellow, who is clearly more powerful than any individual gem, had to shed a few tears but was largely unaffected. So clearly not even every gem is affected the same way every time (this is also shown canonically with Lapis), and Blue's mood also dictates how powerful her aura is. So how is it hard to believe that when she got really pissed of, her powers could affect Connie?

Until word of god states this is a definite error in the animation/canon, a feat has to be taken at face value. Any talk on animation errors by fans is conjecture and projecting.

I'll go ahead and back the Red Lotus

@cpt_nice:

Her second attack is clearly more potent than her first

Or maybe gems just react differently at different times. Depending on their own strength and mindset. Garnet struggled against the 1st wave after quite a while, it wasn't an easy thing for her.

That's true, but it never before brought gems to their knees, incapable/barely capable of moving. It is clear she has a large degree of control over her aura.

True. Enough to say it's effective cross species When gems think differently and feel differently than humans. Doubt it

Why exactly? Her powers can definitely be stronger or weaker, depending on how consciously she projects her aura. During the "what's the use of feeling blue" scene, Steven was crying a tiny bit, the pearls and Yellow weren't crying at all, despite being in closer proximity. In Legs From Homeworld, the crystal gems were all crying a bit but didn't fall to their knees like during the battle, Connie was unaffected and Yellow, who is clearly more powerful than any individual gem, had to shed a few tears but was largely unaffected. So clearly not even every gem is affected the same way every time (this is also shown canonically with Lapis), and Blue's mood also dictates how powerful her aura is. So how is it hard to believe that when she got really pissed of, her powers could affect Connie?

That could be due to Stevens own empathetic abilities. She wasn't even aiming to affect steven and I don't think blue herself was crying. The 2nd one wasn't an attack, just blue natural empathy wave, however this time she was crying. Lapis herself is just nigh completely resistant to the ability. Yes other gems have resistance to the ability. Only Connie has been shown to be completely unaffected at one point, and then affected at another for a mere couple seconds. There was really no other significance to say the blue wave was so much stronger that it crossed species, when it hadn't done that any other time. Pretty hard considering She was probably pretty emotional to see the sword that shattered her sister, and at that point connie was close range.

Until word of god states this is a definite error in the animation/canon, a feat has to be taken at face value. Any talk on animation errors by fans is conjecture and projecting.

So can lapis teleport now? Because she disappeared for like several seconds during the fight. There were multiple animation errors in that episode Connie dropping to her knees would not have been the only one. It's just the only that causes reason for debate

@cor_tsar:

Or maybe gems just react differently at different times. Depending on their own strength and mindset. Garnet struggled against the 1st wave after quite a while, it wasn't an easy thing for her.

All possible. Doesn't have anything to do with Connie.

True. Enough to say it's effective cross species When gems think differently and feel differently than humans. Doubt it

We don't know to what degree gems do this differently than humans, and how Blue interacts with that. An interesting train of thought, but conjecture at this point.

That could be due to Stevens own empathetic abilities.

True. This is conjecture (on my part) but I believe that theoretically Steven should be less affected than someone like Garnet or Amethyst due to him being only half-gem (and a diamond at that), but due to his abnormal high degree of empathy for those around him, this is not the case.

She wasn't even aiming to affect steven and I don't think blue herself was crying.

I don't know which instance you are talking about from this sentence.

She is clearly seen crying here.

She also clearly cried during her fight.

Only Connie has been shown to be completely unaffected at one point, and then affected at another for a mere couple seconds.

Connie was in the same scene with blue diamond for a few instances.

* During her first visible blue wave she is unaffected.

* The second visible blue wave hits everyone hard and makes them fall to their knees, except Lapis, who clearly has very highly resistance due to the emotional abuse done to her.

* She is unaffected during Legs from Homeworld as Blue was obviously not using her empathic powers as a weapon. The crystal gems were visibly way less affected by her aura then before.

So it is clear her second 'attack' is just her most powerful one, and the only one powerful enough to strike Connie. It is also worth noting that Blue is visibly (even) more furious during her second attack, especially after noticing Lapis is another traitor gem. She is also standing with her hands balled into fists, as opposed to the first attack, where she is crying into them.

There was really no other significance to say the blue wave was so much stronger that it crossed species, when it hadn't done that any other time.

When Lapis was with other humans, such as Greg during her first appearance or Lars during the trial, she never projected her blue aura like she did during the battle. That further enforces the fact that she needs to be serious/pissed off to affect humans.

Pretty hard considering She was probably pretty emotional to see the sword that shattered her sister, and at that point connie was close range.

Probably, and that is likely what added to her second attack being more powerful.

So can lapis teleport now? Because she disappeared for like several seconds during the fight.

You know very well this is not comparable so don't try to be dishonest. If the animators suddenly colored Pearl bright green or gave Steven 7 fingers, or made a character disappear from the animation, that is a clear animation error. Connie crying is not a clear error, it is perfectly fine unless you are obtuse in believing Blue's power couldn't possibly work on her because that makes you uncomfortable. Again, word of god is needed to state this is an error, otherwise it is a clear feat for Blue, end of story.

There were multiple animation errors in that episode Connie dropping to her knees would not have been the only one.

Yet again, conjecture. She has a feat of affecting humans until stated otherwise. Simple as that.

@cpt_nice: can’t see video

@cpt_nice:

All possible. Doesn't have anything to do with Connie.

We don't know to what degree gems do this differently than humans, and how Blue interacts with that. An interesting train of thought, but conjecture at this point.

Fair enough.

I don't know which instance you are talking about from this sentence.

She is clearly seen crying here.

What's the use in feeling blue. Anyways Steven wasn't crying in that moment either as Blue was tearing up. And seconds after words she had stopped tearing up. I don't really think the scene has any relevance to the effect of her powers.

Connie was in the same scene with blue diamond for a few instances.

* During her first visible blue wave she is unaffected.

* The second visible blue wave hits everyone hard and makes them fall to their knees, except Lapis, who clearly has very highly resistance due to the emotional abuse done to her.

* She is unaffected during Legs from Homeworld as Blue was obviously not using her empathic powers as a weapon. The crystal gems were visibly way less affected by her aura then before.

So it is clear her second 'attack' is just her most powerful one, and the only one powerful enough to strike Connie. It is also worth noting that Blue is visibly (even) more furious during her second attack, especially after noticing Lapis is another traitor gem. She is also standing with her hands balled into fists, as opposed to the first attack, where she is crying into them.

Besides knocking down Connie there's no real evidence the second attack was stronger. Both blue waves had dropped the gems. If it was significantly stronger you'd think some other result was evident, maybe like Garnet Defusing.

When Lapis was with other humans, such as Greg during her first appearance or Lars during the trial, she never projected her blue aura like she did during the battle. That further enforces the fact that she needs to be serious/pissed off to affect humans.

She was serious the entire fight.

Probably, and that is likely what added to her second attack being more powerful.

She had already shattered the sword by then. The only thing that had potentially further upset her was getting a house dropped on her and Lapis betraying her, but i really doubt that was enough compared to having the sword that killed her sister put in front of her face. Especially considering a giant hand had literally stomped her into the sand and had to be lifted by another had barely seemed to phase her, so the house dropping at the very least was not the trigger. And I doubt Lapis is enough.

You know very well this is not comparable so don't try to be dishonest. If the animators suddenly colored Pearl bright green or gave Steven 7 fingers, or made a character disappear from the animation, that is a clear animation error. Connie crying is not a clear error, it is perfectly fine unless you are obtuse in believing Blue's power couldn't possibly work on her because that makes you uncomfortable. Again, word of god is needed to state this is an error, otherwise it is a clear feat for Blue, end of story.

Yet again, conjecture. She has a feat of affecting humans until stated otherwise. Simple as that.

A character falling to their knees is about as erroneous as a character disappearing from the action. It's not like there were too many major animation flaws such as color distortion. Just multiple smaller ones. I'm not uncomfortable from the fact. I just think it's a completely out of place scene when at one point Connie reacted like this to Blue's empathy

Dropped to her knees one moment later, but only for a couple seconds. Especially considering Lion(the other character completely unaffected) was still unaffected.

It just seems that when it comes to cross species her abilities aren't effective. You're not wrong in saying it's conjecture. But it's not unfounded conjecture and I doubt Sugar or the animators are ever gonna comment on the subject to get a clear answer.

But I'll concede, because again, you're not wrong, it's theorizing. I just think it's weird.